New SVS PB2000 and SB2000 subs!!!!!! - Page 53 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1561 of 1577 Old 02-22-2015, 02:51 PM
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Just picked up a PB2000 today...it is replacing a Definitive ProSub1000. Would I want to run both subs for any reason?
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post #1562 of 1577 Old 02-22-2015, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris7277 View Post
Just picked up a PB2000 today...it is replacing a Definitive ProSub1000. Would I want to run both subs for any reason?
Nope
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post #1563 of 1577 Old 02-22-2015, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
This is a characteristic of the SB2000 that I actually don't like very much, as to my ears its bias towards the lower frequencies just doesn't integrate very well to my mains.

I've tried 4 different subs in my room with the same exact same setup and positionings. A def tech supercube 2, martin logan Dynamo 700 and Dynamo 1000, and the SB2000 currently set up.

I liked different things about each, but overall I enjoyed the Martin Logan Dynamo 700 the most, as it was the tightest and cleanest sounding. It really had a nice balance overall. Why didn't I keep it you ask?...same reason I didn't keep the Dynamo 1000(also awesome sounding, but gives up a little speed to the smaller 700). While the subs sound great, the features stink. You're paying for a (now included) wireless transmitter that is less than ideal, and the auto turn on sensitivity (even wired) is so low that you need to crank your system loud enough to wake the baby before your sub kicks on. Oh yeah, and as long as you want to keep the sub on, you'll need to play it at a level higher than background conversation music. Both of those dynamos are great sounding subs which are ruined by shoddily executed feature designs.

The Def tech supercube 2 was slow, as it is a radiator design, but man that little cube puts out a LOT of sound! All of the features worked well, and like all def tech products I have experience with it is built like a tank. It just smears upper bass too much for me to like it.

So here I am with the SB2000, which IMO doesn't sound as good up top as the very similarly specd Martin Logan Dynamo 1000 (the opening master and commander scene had cannon balls whizzing by my chest with the Dynamo, whereas the Sb2000 just punches hard as the cannon fires, which the Dynamo also did), but the SB2000 is cheaper, has a 12 volt trigger, and just feels better made. I have heard the SB13 ultra as well, but not in the room I'm familliar with, or with any content I'm familliar with. It was nice, but for those reasons I don't think I'm very qualified to tout its strengths or weaknesses.

There are so many guys who swear by SVS on this board, but I wonder how many of them have compared apples to apples as I have, or rather if they just listen to the prevailing noise and then blindly proclaim that SVS walks on water because there's no middleman to pay.
All I can tell you is that this PB-2000 does all of the above, and with authority. I loved the bass sound from the SB12, but it was outclassed by the PB-1000 in almost every way, and this pb-2000 is more than plenty. In fact, it just seems to gain more volume and bass the more I listen to it.

To me, it sounds like you should audition the ported models.

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post #1564 of 1577 Old 02-22-2015, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by trog69 View Post
All I can tell you is that this PB-2000 does all of the above, and with authority. I loved the bass sound from the SB12, but it was outclassed by the PB-1000 in almost every way, and this pb-2000 is more than plenty. In fact, it just seems to gain more volume and bass the more I listen to it.

To me, it sounds like you should audition the ported models.
I'm glad you like it. For me though, I'm more interested in accuracy. The volume is nice as well, but 90% of my listening is done at kid friendly levels, so I'm much more interested in balance and speed. I've had probably 15 subs over the years, and have always thought the small sealed ones did these things best.

Granted, I have never heard the PB-2000, but I have no reason to believe it would differ significantly (though all are at least a little unique) from any other large cab ported 12 with a similarly powered amp, and those I've heard aplenty.
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post #1565 of 1577 Old 02-22-2015, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
I'm glad you like it. For me though, I'm more interested in accuracy. The volume is nice as well, but 90% of my listening is done at kid friendly levels, so I'm much more interested in balance and speed. I've had probably 15 subs over the years, and have always thought the small sealed ones did these things best.

Granted, I have never heard the PB-2000, but I have no reason to believe it would differ significantly (though all are at least a little unique) from any other large cab ported 12 with a similarly powered amp, and those I've heard aplenty.
I would have sent any of the SVS subs back if they weren't accurate.

EDIT: And I'm living in a house with two other adults, with different work schedules, so I don't crank it all that loud very often.

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post #1566 of 1577 Old 02-22-2015, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by trog69 View Post
I would have sent any of the SVS subs back if they weren't accurate.

EDIT: And I'm living in a house with two other adults, with different work schedules, so I don't crank it all that loud very often.
Agreed. My point though was that sealed and ported subs sound different from one another. If that weren't true, there wouldn't be manufacturers like SVS who make both flavors.

Granted, another component to this is that sealed designs can use smaller cabinets, making them more livable in multi purpose rooms, but that doesn't mean that they dont sound different, because they do.

To my ears, ported subs have always been more challenging to integrate with mains. That doesn't mean impossible, but to me it's a bit tougher to do.

Since I'm at least 75% music, I'd rather have a sub which disappears. Sealed designs, IMO, are better at this. If I were 75% films I may prefer a ported sub which knocks my neighbors fillings out, but it's just not my cup of tea.

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post #1567 of 1577 Old 02-23-2015, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
Agreed. My point though was that sealed and ported subs sound different from one another. If that weren't true, there wouldn't be manufacturers like SVS who make both flavors.

Granted, another component to this is that sealed designs can use smaller cabinets, making them more livable in multi purpose rooms, but that doesn't mean that they dont sound different, because they do.

To my ears, ported subs have always been more challenging to integrate with mains. That doesn't mean impossible, but to me it's a bit tougher to do.

Since I'm at least 75% music, I'd rather have a sub which disappears. Sealed designs, IMO, are better at this. If I were 75% films I may prefer a ported sub which knocks my neighbors fillings out, but it's just not my cup of tea.
If the idea of integrating with the mains is the mark, I've been very lucky to have hit it so well. The bass IS coming from the speakers in front of me, for all intents and purposes. I think where we differ is that I enjoy the impact from the kick drums, and most of the time when people are complaining of a lack of impact in the music, it's that issue that comes up. For me, I got the great bass sound that the SB12 gave me, and the impact I got in spades from the 505 with its hyper mid-bass freq.

I do think that if I'd given the SB-2000 a chance, I'd be very happy with that choice. The SB12 just didn't have enough oomph in this room setup to do that, or at least when it did, the limiter soon stopped that from happening because I ran it too hot.

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post #1568 of 1577 Old 02-23-2015, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris7277 View Post
Just picked up a PB2000 today...it is replacing a Definitive ProSub1000. Would I want to run both subs for any reason?
I would run them both. I have 2 PB2000s up front and a BIC F12 and PSW505 behind my theater seats on the left and right side facing slightly angled toward the center seat. They aren't run as high as they normally would be due to the PBs and they still deliver clean accent base and excellent tactile feel and seat rumble. Everybody loves it and my low-end sound and feel throughout the room is phenomenal. Butt-shakers in the seat can't compare.

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post #1569 of 1577 Old 02-23-2015, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dmillionz View Post
I would run them both. I have 2 PB2000s up front and a BIC F12 and PSW505 behind my theater seats on the left and right side facing slightly angled toward the center seat. They aren't run as high as they normally would be due to the PBs and they still deliver clean accent base and excellent tactile feel and seat rumble. Everybody loves it and my low-end sound and feel throughout the room is phenomenal. Butt-shakers in the seat can't compare.
I have been contemplating trying the 505 with the PB-2000 to see if they played nice together, particularly getting the thump of the 505 without the muddy bass on either side of the hyper-freq. spike. If so, it would be a fun setup for most of the music i like to listen to.

The "problem" right now is that the PB-2000 is more than enough bass. I'm glad to hear that you got them all together successfully. If/when I do attempt to pair them, I'll report on what happens. I see that quite a few people have either the BIC or Polky before upgrading to a more serious sub, but I haven't seen too many comments on the results of pairing them.

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post #1570 of 1577 Old 02-23-2015, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by trog69 View Post
I have been contemplating trying the 505 with the PB-2000 to see if they played nice together, particularly getting the thump of the 505 without the muddy bass on either side of the hyper-freq. spike. If so, it would be a fun setup for most of the music i like to listen to.

The "problem" right now is that the PB-2000 is more than enough bass. I'm glad to hear that you got them all together successfully. If/when I do attempt to pair them, I'll report on what happens. I see that quite a few people have either the BIC or Polky before upgrading to a more serious sub, but I haven't seen too many comments on the results of pairing them.
I have a Yamaha cheapo sub that came with a HTIB (before I knew better) and I tried pairing it with my PB-1000 and it was definitely a no-go. The Yamaha didn't even produce a single hump when measured by REW, it was all sorts of wrong for trying to play with the PB. I talked to SVS about it and they were very convinced that putting the two subs together would be pretty terrible all around because the PB would be limited by the Yamaha's output and would be "dragged down" to the cheaper subs' level. So, instead of trying to figure out how they would work together well, I just upgraded to a PB-2000 and am perfectly fine with the level of bass I get out of that. Next step is a second one...but that's a little ways off.
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post #1571 of 1577 Old 02-23-2015, 11:44 AM
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I have a Yamaha cheapo sub that came with a HTIB (before I knew better) and I tried pairing it with my PB-1000 and it was definitely a no-go. The Yamaha didn't even produce a single hump when measured by REW, it was all sorts of wrong for trying to play with the PB. I talked to SVS about it and they were very convinced that putting the two subs together would be pretty terrible all around because the PB would be limited by the Yamaha's output and would be "dragged down" to the cheaper subs' level. So, instead of trying to figure out how they would work together well, I just upgraded to a PB-2000 and am perfectly fine with the level of bass I get out of that. Next step is a second one...but that's a little ways off.
Yes, that's what I've been warned about from some of the more knowledgeable bassheads here, and thus why I haven't done it yet. But of course, I would be remiss if I didn't try it just to say I did. <cuz ima maroon> HAHAHA!

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post #1572 of 1577 Old 02-23-2015, 11:48 AM
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Yes, that's what I've been warned about from some of the more knowledgeable bassheads here, and thus why I haven't done it yet. But of course, I would be remiss if I didn't try it just to say I did. <cuz ima maroon> HAHAHA!
Yeah. I should note that the timeline on my conversation with SVS when they told me "no, it won't work" and my measuring and graphing it in REW are the opposite of how I made it sound. They said "no" and I tried anyway. Only to find out that SVS probably knows what they're talking about.
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post #1573 of 1577 Old 02-23-2015, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by trog69 View Post
I have been contemplating trying the 505 with the PB-2000 to see if they played nice together, particularly getting the thump of the 505 without the muddy bass on either side of the hyper-freq. spike. If so, it would be a fun setup for most of the music i like to listen to.

The "problem" right now is that the PB-2000 is more than enough bass. I'm glad to hear that you got them all together successfully. If/when I do attempt to pair them, I'll report on what happens. I see that quite a few people have either the BIC or Polky before upgrading to a more serious sub, but I haven't seen too many comments on the results of pairing them.
The most common advice on these boards as noted above is to not do this, and there are both theoretical and practical problems that can result from employing two different subs. My advice is to try it; there's really nothing to lose and you might be surprised at the results.

For years I've had a first version Paradigm PDR-10 (fabrique au Canada even) that developed a rattle. I assumed it was a goner and purchased a PB-2000 which I'm extremely happy with. After a little research I realized that the PDR-10 probably just had a foam surround failure, which I found to be the case and easily repaired it, thinking I would just use it in another setup. Then I started wondering about this pairing idea and ran across this thread:
Are three inexpensive subs better than one expensive sub-Dr. Earl Geddes Approach
You can cut to the chase in that thread and just search for the gedlee posts, though as I recall there are some other interesting thoughts sprinkled throughout it. I decided to try it and immediately could tell the bass response had smoothed out considerably throughout the entire room. I started running audible frequency sweeps (from YouTube), reversed the polarity and I was frankly pretty happy. Ultimately I purchased a Umik-1, learned to use REW and discovered that not only was I on the right track with the initial impression of smoothing out the bass response, but also that setting my front speaker to full range and using the Onkyo's double-bass smoothed it out even more. Here's a post and some follow up discussion on this and some graphs:
Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.

Bottom line for me is, try it, you have nothing to lose except perhaps some time while you pursue a learning experience. The common wisdom around here is don't mix subs and don't use your front speakers full range. My experience may well be the exception but had I not tried it, I wouldn't have known. I would recommend getting a USB mic and using REW as it will prove invaluable.
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post #1574 of 1577 Old 02-23-2015, 12:44 PM
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The most common advice on these boards as noted above is to not do this, and there are both theoretical and practical problems that can result from employing two different subs. My advice is to try it; there's really nothing to lose and you might be surprised at the results.

For years I've had a first version Paradigm PDR-10 (fabrique au Canada even) that developed a rattle. I assumed it was a goner and purchased a PB-2000 which I'm extremely happy with. After a little research I realized that the PDR-10 probably just had a foam surround failure, which I found to be the case and easily repaired it, thinking I would just use it in another setup. Then I started wondering about this pairing idea and ran across this thread:
Are three inexpensive subs better than one expensive sub-Dr. Earl Geddes Approach
You can cut to the chase in that thread and just search for the gedlee posts, though as I recall there are some other interesting thoughts sprinkled throughout it. I decided to try it and immediately could tell the bass response had smoothed out considerably throughout the entire room. I started running audible frequency sweeps (from YouTube), reversed the polarity and I was frankly pretty happy. Ultimately I purchased a Umik-1, learned to use REW and discovered that not only was I on the right track with the initial impression of smoothing out the bass response, but also that setting my front speaker to full range and using the Onkyo's double-bass smoothed it out even more. Here's a post and some follow up discussion on this and some graphs:
Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.

Bottom line for me is, try it, you have nothing to lose except perhaps some time while you pursue a learning experience. The common wisdom around here is don't mix subs and don't use your front speakers full range. My experience may well be the exception but had I not tried it, I wouldn't have known. I would recommend getting a USB mic and using REW as it will prove invaluable.
I'd already purchased connectors for a dual setup, so it's just a matter of urgency, which has been reduced to miniscule amounts due to the incredible bass I'm getting with just the PB-2000. Again, I'll gladly admit to wasted time, or a wonderful surprise once I've connected the two. Not getting my hopes up, and not going to be disappointed either. thanks for the help.

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post #1575 of 1577 Old 02-23-2015, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DocCasualty View Post
The most common advice on these boards as noted above is to not do this, and there are both theoretical and practical problems that can result from employing two different subs. My advice is to try it; there's really nothing to lose and you might be surprised at the results.

For years I've had a first version Paradigm PDR-10 (fabrique au Canada even) that developed a rattle. I assumed it was a goner and purchased a PB-2000 which I'm extremely happy with. After a little research I realized that the PDR-10 probably just had a foam surround failure, which I found to be the case and easily repaired it, thinking I would just use it in another setup. Then I started wondering about this pairing idea and ran across this thread:
Are three inexpensive subs better than one expensive sub-Dr. Earl Geddes Approach
You can cut to the chase in that thread and just search for the gedlee posts, though as I recall there are some other interesting thoughts sprinkled throughout it. I decided to try it and immediately could tell the bass response had smoothed out considerably throughout the entire room. I started running audible frequency sweeps (from YouTube), reversed the polarity and I was frankly pretty happy. Ultimately I purchased a Umik-1, learned to use REW and discovered that not only was I on the right track with the initial impression of smoothing out the bass response, but also that setting my front speaker to full range and using the Onkyo's double-bass smoothed it out even more. Here's a post and some follow up discussion on this and some graphs:
Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.

Bottom line for me is, try it, you have nothing to lose except perhaps some time while you pursue a learning experience. The common wisdom around here is don't mix subs and don't use your front speakers full range. My experience may well be the exception but had I not tried it, I wouldn't have known. I would recommend getting a USB mic and using REW as it will prove invaluable.
That is some very nice graph results with the double bass. And, as stated on that thread, if it sounds good, it's all good.
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post #1576 of 1577 Old Today, 04:22 PM
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I have a question for you guys. Does SVS ever have sales? I'd like to get the SB-2000 (I especially love the metal grill feature) but $699 is a tad above my price range.
It's above your price range if you want it RIGHT NOW. Save for another couple months and then it will be perfectly within your price range. That's what I did. Well...close enough. About $200 to go until my dual PB-2000's are paid off on the card.

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I have a question for you guys. Does SVS ever have sales? I'd like to get the SB-2000 (I especially love the metal grill feature) but $699 is a tad above my price range. I'd prefer to cap out at $499 shipped. I didn't see anything for black friday and I'm starting to lose hope.

If getting it on sale is out of the question, what else is comparable or what would you recommend as the best I could get for $499?
If you're looking for a sealed sub, the SB-1000 is highly rated. From there, you can upgrade within one year, and only pay a nominal amount for shipping, offset by their 5% customer loyalty discount. I just got my refund for the PB-1000, and I'm so happy with the sound of this PB-2000 I'm hugging myself.

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Klipsch Rw 12d 12 Subwoofer Each , Svs Pb2000 , Svs Sb2000 , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer
Gear in this thread - Pb2000 by PriceGrabber.com

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