PSA subwoofer wait time - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

That's not an option. Even drivers assembled in the US are for the most part made with Asian sourced parts. Have a look at this:
http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/speaker-parts.html
There is nothing equivalent to this for US sources. Even the Japanese get most of their parts from China.

+1..

Two words for you....

Magnets.

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Old 01-21-2014, 12:44 PM
 
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...LOL

Even the U.S. military.

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Old 01-21-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Updates may seem "simple" when you think in terms of 1 or 10 or even 25 How about well >100... that would need to be done manually, and I'd guess re-done every few days?

I'm not disagreeing with you that ideally, we would have these capabilities. The reality is we don't.

As for warranty concerns, 99% of any warranty issues for home audio subwoofers are amplifier related. I don't recall us ever being out of amplifiers. In fact, besides the occasional (and believe me VERY frustrating) missed deadlines by our driver vendor I don't think we've been out of anything for more than a few days. For a very small company in a very big pond----that in itself is somewhat unheard of. Our warranty issues have been extremely low but I believe anyone that has had to contact us in this regard will report that we handled everything to their complete satisfaction. Per the CC charge, our preference is not to charge the transaction until we ship. In our rare back order instances we are often given notifications by our "merchant account" that if we do not accept the funds within 24 hours the order will be cancelled. If we feel confident that we will be able to ship the order within a reasonable amount of time(say 3-5 business days) we will go ahead and complete the transaction as the alternative is to have the order auto-cancel. Then we need to call/email each customer and try to explain why we cancelled the order and why they need to go through the inconvenience of a "re-order". Of course in this instance, we didn't receive the driver shipment when we expected it and the shipping delays have been longer than we anticipated.

Again, I cannot apologize enough for this. We are making every attempt to ensure these kinds of outages are eliminated in the future. The patience shown by nearly every customer waiting for their orders to be fulfilled has been amazing and we very much appreciate it. And trust me, comment/criticism like this does *not* fall on deaf ears. Whenever a customer is disappointed in any regard with Power Sound Audio Jim and I both share the same POV
"what can we do to make sure this doesn't happen again?"

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First, thanks for the lengthy email and I don't know if you are serious with your very last question, but I am going to treat it as such.

If you don't have some sort of office manager, then it sounds like you are in serious need of somebody with organizational management skills and minor computer skills. I don't know what you feed your order system into, but if it come into some sort of text file, and it should, you could easily set up canned letters to explain the delays and batch send them out with one email. You collect that info from us. It doesn't take a lot of computer skills to organize that. The same thing would go with the Visa cancellation issue.

As a finance person you charging my card without any shipment info for almost 2 weeks, (add a 3rd week from order placement), makes me think you have cash flow issues; which makes me think your company won't be around to honor warranties. That's not what you want me thinking. You should be thankful you have over 100 backorders and not using that as an excuse not to contact people. If you don't figure this communication part out soon, it will prevent your growth, unless you just want to stay as small niche player in the market.

Also, from your previous post to this one with the update, it still doesn't help me understand where I am in the queue. Will I get a shipment or tracking number? I am sorry you had shipment delays, but you need to figure out a better way to communicate this with your customers, not undecided forum lurker or owner, but customer. I had several people coming over to listen to my new subs. They keep asking if they're in, all I can say is I don't know, I haven't heard a thing. Then they go, who did you order from? All of them have small HTs. If I recommended your product to them they are not the type of people to hang out in this forum wondering what's up.

I am glad you seem open to feedback, because that's what this is; from a borderline pissed customer trying to help you improve.
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Old 01-22-2014, 05:58 AM
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LowellG, that was a thoughtful and well-written post. I hope Tom V. takes it to heart.
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Old 01-22-2014, 06:00 AM
 
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Geez....if some of you guys are such brilliant subwoofer designers, start you own business. The response was arrogant and condescending.

.....rolleyes.gif

Can you guys just say thanks for the response and I'll look forward to the arrival of my subs? I guess not. Instead, your replies indicate you know his business better than he does. I guarantee you this, you're not going get this type of personalized attention from main stream businesses. What makes ID businesses like PSA such a pleasure to do business with is the quality of their products and their consistent and ongoing personal attention to customer service.

If this transaction is too stressful, cancel the order and buy from someone who won't cause you so much stress. If it will makes one feel better, they can go into Best Buy and buy mainstream garbage and know they're dealing with a large business that has a professional accounting office taking care of their books. I know this may surprise a few business know-it-alls, not every business wants to be a big business.

...rolleyes.gif

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Old 01-22-2014, 06:55 AM
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It has nothing to do with being a subwoofer designer. It's all about communication. He basically said since he had over 100 back orders it was to inconvenient to figure out how to contact them all. That may have been acceptable when you started, but not in 2014. There are to many simple automated tools at his disposal. If they want to be a small fish in a big pond, fine. But if they want to compete against companies like they left they need to learn from their mistakes. If you ordered something off Amazon or eBay 3 weeks ago and they charged your credit card 2 weeks ago would you expect some sort of update. You may not but most People would. Especially from a start up company. Your right I can go elsewhere and if he wants to cancel my order for this feedback he can.

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Old 01-22-2014, 07:03 AM
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I highly doubt he will
Cancel you order buy if you are ahead of me on the list I hope he does smile.gif
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Old 01-22-2014, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

It has nothing to do with being a subwoofer designer. It's all about communication. He basically said since he had over 100 back orders it was to inconvenient to figure out how to contact them all. That may have been acceptable when you started, but not in 2014. There are to many simple automated tools at his disposal. If they want to be a small fish in a big pond, fine. But if they want to compete against companies like they left they need to learn from their mistakes. If you ordered something off Amazon or eBay 3 weeks ago and they charged your credit card 2 weeks ago would you expect some sort of update. You may not but most People would. Especially from a start up company. Your right I can go elsewhere and if he wants to cancel my order for this feedback he can.

Cancelling your order would not stop you from expressing your disappointment further...if you decide on doing so(cancelling)... that's a different matter. I know while I was on the waiting list I got cold feet and talked to him(Tom) directly. IMHO...wait until you get the sub...try it out and if you're still disappointed work out some deal with PSA for its return.

I had much longer wait/lead times with my speakers(Ascends) because of the RAAL and cabinets with little to "no" update for several weeks....I never once voiced my displeasure with the process because I chose not too.

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Old 01-22-2014, 08:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

Your right I can go elsewhere and if he wants to cancel my order for this feedback he can.

A suggestion, suck it up or cancel the order and quit the whine?

(currently some seem to be here for the sole purpose of complaining rather than lamenting their wait for a solid, quality subwoofer to show up on their front doorstep)

(if a wait is too emotionally painful to contain, then the individual is best served canceling the order, getting a refund and putting in an order they will feel emotionally secure with)

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Old 01-22-2014, 08:26 AM
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Lowell's issue is not the wait time.  Sometimes stuff happens that you just cannot control.  What he is upset about is the lack of communication about the wait time, and he has a valid point.  A simple email such as "Lowell, thanks very much for your purchase.  We are experiencing an unexpected delay in being able to ship your subs due to a late shipment of drivers.  We are expecting delivery by xx/xx and hope to have your sub shipped by xx/xx.  In the meantime feel free to contact us with any concerns.  If any dates unexpectedly change we will keep you updated."

 

PSA is doing a great job of updating on the forums, but Lowell is correct that updating back ordered customers via e-mail would make good business sense.

 

In fact, I had the same issue with a competitor.  I did not receive any feedback unless I requested it.  Ordered 1/7 and just received order today.  When I initiated contact, I was answered promptly.  But in all honesty there should have been feedback before I felt the need to inquire.

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Old 01-22-2014, 08:29 AM
 
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What he is upset about is the lack of communication about the wait time, and he has a valid point.

Seeing as how we all know what's happening, even those who haven't put an order in, yes that qualifies as a successful effort at communication.

He has made his concerns known. Whipping a dead horse it just that, whipping a dead horse. Just saying, now that everybody knows what's happening, it's time to put the whip away. And if the individual doesn't wish to put the whip away, it's because they want to use the whip.

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Old 01-22-2014, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

A suggestion, suck it up or cancel the order and quit the whine?

(currently some seem to be here for the sole purpose of complaining rather than lamenting their wait for a solid, quality subwoofer to show up on their front doorstep)

Wow questions were asked and answered and you personally attack. I don't mind waiting and all I said was they could communicate better. Your the rhythmic advocate so why are you here
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Old 01-22-2014, 08:35 AM
 
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Wow questions were asked and answered and you personally attack. I don't mind waiting and all I said was they could communicate better. Your the rhythmic advocate so why are you here

There's no personal attack in my comments and due to posted conditions which everybody has been notified about (there is no mystery regarding the why of the delay), there's understanding and waiting patiently and there's being impatient and intentionally kicking up dust.

As to why am I here? I'm an advocate for PSA subs and SVS subwoofers. I've also been known to put a good word in for Seaton, Funk Audio and Hsu. Tom's a great guy and is dealing with supply line issues and some here are using this point to unfairly lambast him as if doing so is going make things better when all they're doing is being disruptive. As a business owner, Tom can't post what I'm posting. A suggestion, lighten up, enjoy the wait and if you can't, nobody will think the worst, cancel the order as obviously, from all that's been posted, the wait is causing some here, unneeded stress.

(in front of everybody, a dead horse is continuing to be beaten and when that happens, it's time to fish or cut bait. as to the horse, the horse doesn't care, it's dead but the act still looks bad to those walking by)

As a suggestion, how about giving Tom a personal phone call and personally let him know your feelings on how he's running his business operation and personally let him know your thoughtful business suggestions and personally notify him of your personal disappointment in how PSA has majorly failed in their personal obligation to personally communicate with you?

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Old 01-22-2014, 09:08 AM
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You don't get it. He doesn't need to waste his time here. All he need to do is update his website. Problem solved.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:10 AM
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PS I did PM him a week ago with no response.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:12 AM
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I have to say I agree with Lowell in this case. He has a very valid point about the fact the only reason we know what is going on is because the updates happen to be happening here in the forum site. That's great for geeks like us who hang out here (probably too much) but these updates are worthless for the customers who don't hang out here.

 

Those customers are just as important and deserve the same update that we have at our disposal. And if I was one of them I would be seriously agitated wondering where my purchased product was and I would have every right to be. It's not whining to point out a deficient system that needs improving. Especially when the owner asks for the constructive criticism by saying it won't fall on deaf ears.

 

If we are going to say that these ID companies have great customer service (and I believe they do 99% of the time) then they need to be proactive in telling to people why the product they have already been charged for has not been shipped out. That type of information is basic customer service plain and simple and there's no arguing that fact. The very term "Customer Service" means servicing the customer's needs. If I'm charged for a product as a customer then I NEED to know what's going on.

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Old 01-22-2014, 09:14 AM
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PS I did PM him a week ago with no response.

Sending him a PM doesn't really do much because what if he isn't on AVS for a few days. Not to mention I can't count how many times I've received a PM and honestly just forgotten to reply. But I never forget to reply to emails, maybe just old habits carried over from work. I've never had to wait more then a day or two for a reply to an email that I've sent Tom.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:19 AM
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Sending him a PM doesn't really do much because what if he isn't on AVS for a few days. Not to mention I can't count how many times I've received a PM and honestly just forgotten to reply. But I never forget to reply to emails, maybe just old habits carried over from work. I've never had to wait more then a day or two for a reply to an email that I've sent Tom.

+1 Same here. PMing is not a good way to communicate with any of the ID companies. I know this to be true.

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Old 01-22-2014, 09:19 AM
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I agree with brown and steve, Tom is great about responding to emails.

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Old 01-22-2014, 09:20 AM
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Sending him a PM doesn't really do much because what if he isn't on AVS for a few days. Not to mention I can't count how many times I've received a PM and honestly just forgotten to reply. But I never forget to reply to emails, maybe just old habits carried over from work. I've never had to wait more then a day or two for a reply to an email that I've sent Tom.

Yup....PM can't be use an immediate communication tool...some of us(I know, I don't) log on for several days even if we're still following or reading through the forum. Although most of us do understand his point though....smile.gif

Agree with JB, Steve and Hop...biggrin.gif

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Old 01-22-2014, 09:21 AM
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You don't get it. He doesn't need to waste his time here. All he need to do is update his website. Problem solved.
Bingo. PSA's News page looks like the perfect place to post status updates and other such information for its customers.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:35 AM
 
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You don't get it. He doesn't need to waste his time here. All he need to do is update his website. Problem solved.

Then call him. Directly let him know your feelings on this matter.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:36 AM
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Then call him. Directly let him know your feelings on this matter.

That's a very good point Bee. It would probably be best to have direct communication with him. These forums are hit or miss at best. 

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Old 01-22-2014, 09:37 AM
 
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I have to say I agree with Lowell in this case. He has a very valid point about the fact the only reason we know what is going on is because the updates happen to be happening here in the forum site. That's great for geeks like us who hang out here (probably too much) but these updates are worthless for the customers who don't hang out here.

Just saying, it's called ID for good reason. tongue.gif
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:46 AM
 
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It would probably be best to have direct communication with him.

When I have a personal problem with a manufacture, I give the company a call. I don't find a forum so I can publicly state how I personally think the company should operate.

Everybody here knows what's going on, as far as us geeks, we've been notified. All of us know what's what with what. Tom has done his job. The buyers here have been notified. Just because he hasn't divulged those he's communicated with in other fashions, doesn't mean they haven't been communicated with.

I agree, communication is that important. Give the company a call and say hey, what's up with what. It reads like some here are abdicating their personal responsibility to make phone calls to get answers to their problems.

Okay, an e-mail was sent and not responded to. Here's the contact information for PSA:

Everybody here knows that Tom is a great guy and everybody here know that Tom tries his best to return all calls and e-mails. At this point, either give Tom a call or the individual who won't involve themselves above an e-mail, is the problem.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:49 AM
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How many ppl who don't hang out on these forums even know what ID subs are? I honestly didn't know what it was back before I joined this forum. I never heard of Hsu, SVS, Outlaw, Epik, eD, Rythmik before here. I used to think Klipsch was the best thing in the world, they were the best sounding most expensive speakers in the stores like Best Buy and Circuit City. So my point being I'm not even a PSA customer BUT I feel those guys are putting attention to the ppl and areas of their business that needs it the most. Yes their website is behind, but I'd rather have their website not up to date because they are working on making top notch subs for a good price. We wouldn't want PSA to turn into the Bose of subs with a huge marketing scheme and all kinds of other things but then not have quality products to back up their claims.

If I were waiting for a PSA sub would I be disappointed that its taking this long OF COURSE I WOULD but Tom and Jim are treating their customers right and if I was happy with the product I purchased I'd buy from them again.

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Old 01-22-2014, 09:52 AM
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Then call him. Directly let him know your feelings on this matter.
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That's a very good point Bee. It would probably be best to have direct communication with him. These forums are hit or miss at best. 

I'm pretty sure Tom asked ""what can we do to make sure this doesn't happen again?" and LowellG responded. What is wrong with that? I always say, don't ask a question you don't want an answer to.

I also feel that using a forum for first line of communication is not the answer. Tom should have emailed everybody directly stating what the hold up is. Being proactive is better customer service. NO WAY should their customer have to call for an update.

Having companies participating on forums is great though.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:58 AM
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The bright side of all this is very soon Lowell and many others will be enjoying their new PSA subwoofers for which they have been waiting with great anticipation. And if their subwoofers are anything like my PSA XV15 they will be very happy. And in the end, that's all that matters. 

 

A good subwoofer will make a man forget much unhappiness. :D

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Old 01-22-2014, 09:58 AM
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I'm pretty sure Tom asked ""what can we do to make sure this doesn't happen again?" and LowellG responded. What is wrong with that? I always say, don't ask a question you don't want an answer to.
Yup. A (rhetorical?) question was posed, and a polite and well-reasoned reply (not a "whine", as someone suggested) was offered.
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I also feel that using a forum for first line of communication is not the answer. Tom should have emailed everybody directly stating what the hold up is. Being proactive is better customer service. NO WAY should their customer have to call for an update.
Agreed. And as LowellG pointed out, if e-mailing was too much trouble, PSA could simply have posted a status update on their own website.
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Having companies participating on forums is great though.
Agreed. cool.gif
nube and its phillip like this.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


Seeing as how we all know what's happening, even those who haven't put an order in, yes that qualifies as a successful effort at communication.
 

This is your opinion.  I think you are wrong.  The only reason he knows what is going on is because he checked an online audio forum.  He was not directly contacted by the company to update him on the order of his status.   Lowell feels like this is not adequate communication after being billed for thousands of dollars and waiting several weeks with no contact.

nube and its phillip like this.

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

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