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post #2251 of 3673 Old 04-17-2015, 10:49 PM
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To Jeremy...any update from Speakerpower?
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post #2252 of 3673 Old 04-18-2015, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
Well that's great news! I already presented the business case to my lady, and initial results have been promising. I appealed to her thought processes, such as: You know, since I got accepted to grad school I think I deserve a reward!

Oh and most importantly, wouldn't it be great of all the speakers had matching paint and grills? Then everything in the living room would be matching and look like a set. She LOVED the sound of that.

I plan to show her pictures tonight, I just wish you guys had some with the grills on. Not to worry though, since my house is already full of RA speakers I can show her a few examples.

Wish me luck!
Sorry about the holdup on the grill pics. I'll get that done this week. We did a TON of grills for pending orders and had to wait for more Mellotone black cloth. That stuff is expensive so I like to buy it in bulk. We'll have more in this week.


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Originally Posted by TooPoor View Post
So I just worked on the sub crawl a bit, reran Audessey, but still feel like I'm leaving a lot on the table. I feel like I'm hearing localization. Is this because I only have one sub? I can't help but feel like another sub would be PERFECT, unless I'm doing something wrong? I have tried the sub in a couple different spots, turned up the gain, bumped up the AVR trim, etc.

Point being, you guys have any tips on sub placement other then the sub crawl?
Sub placement may take some experimentation as well as sub settings. I would try setting the crossover and level manually with music and see if you can get a nice blend with your mains. Try 50,60,70 and 80 hz and see which sounds best to you. Be aware that Audyssey typically sets the sub level lower than most folks like to run their subs. So if you had it set your levels and then felt underwhelmed this is why.

I also recommend switching back and forth between Program 1 and Program 2. Remember to shut the sub off between switching to allow the eprom to reset. Program 2 has a pretty healthy bass boost around 20hz that affects all the way down into the infrasonics. This will probably give you the most impact on movies. Program 1 may sound a little "tighter' on music depending on your room acoustics.
This sub is pretty "plug and play" sonically in most rooms, but if you have some room challenges, a little care may be needed to get the most out of it.

If you want to give me a call tomorrow, I can walk you through a few things over the phone and we can try and get it dialed in a little.

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post #2253 of 3673 Old 04-18-2015, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by superbabyboy1984 View Post
To Jeremy...any update from Speakerpower?
The faceplates arrived!

Assembly of the amplifiers will begin this coming week and I hope to have the first round of amps here from California before May 1st. We will then begin installing them and testing the subs. Then of course they go on the truck.

That puts us a little behind schedule but not too terribly much.
Speakerpower is a great vendor and is fantastic to work with.
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Last edited by edgebsl; 04-18-2015 at 03:42 PM.
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post #2254 of 3673 Old 04-18-2015, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post
Sub placement may take some experimentation as well as sub settings. I would try setting the crossover and level manually with music and see if you can get a nice blend with your mains. Try 50,60,70 and 80 hz and see which sounds best to you. Be aware that Audyssey typically sets the sub level lower than most folks like to run their subs. So if you had it set your levels and then felt underwhelmed this is why.

I also recommend switching back and forth between Program 1 and Program 2. Remember to shut the sub off between switching to allow the eprom to reset. Program 2 has a pretty healthy bass boost around 20hz that affects all the way down into the infrasonics. This will probably give you the most impact on movies. Program 1 may sound a little "tighter' on music depending on your room acoustics.
This sub is pretty "plug and play" sonically in most rooms, but if you have some room challenges, a little care may be needed to get the most out of it.

If you want to give me a call tomorrow, I can walk you through a few things over the phone and we can try and get it dialed in a little.
After doing a couple sub crawls and re-running Audessey, messing with the crossovers, etc... I feel like things have improved a lot. My initial location was quite bad apparently. Now I think it sounds phenomenal at the moment. It is missing one thing though... another one

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post #2255 of 3673 Old 04-18-2015, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post
The faceplates arrived!

Assembly of the amplifiers will begin this coming week and I hope to have the first round of amps here from California before May 1st. We will then begin installing them and testing the subs. Then of course they go on the truck.

That puts us a little behind schedule but not too terribly much.
Speakerpower is a great vendor and is fantastic to work with.
So were looking at getting subs the first or second week of May?
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post #2256 of 3673 Old 04-18-2015, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post
The faceplates arrived!

Assembly of the amplifiers will begin this coming week and I hope to have the first round of amps here from California before May 1st. We will then begin installing them and testing the subs. Then of course they go on the truck.

That puts us a little behind schedule but not too terribly much.
Speakerpower is a great vendor and is fantastic to work with.
SWEET! Loving the logo. Looks great!

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post #2257 of 3673 Old 04-19-2015, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post
So were looking at getting subs the first or second week of May?
That is the plan.

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post #2258 of 3673 Old 04-19-2015, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post
That is the plan.
How far behind would you project that second run of echo 18's?
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post #2259 of 3673 Old 04-19-2015, 10:58 AM
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How far behind would you project that second run of echo 18's?
One to two weeks.

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post #2260 of 3673 Old 04-19-2015, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by edgebsl View Post
One to two weeks.
Sweet! I'll be watching how things progress with the shipments and see how the timing works out for me. I have a few things up in the air so I just want to see where all the pieces fall.

If everything is on track and there is space on that second run you might see me take two of them lol. I'm sure we will be in touch sir!
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post #2261 of 3673 Old 04-19-2015, 01:20 PM
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That is the plan.
Dang, was hoping for next week or by the end of the month. Going 5-6 weeks without a sub feels like eternity
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post #2262 of 3673 Old 04-19-2015, 01:41 PM
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Dang, was hoping for next week or by the end of the month. Going 5-6 weeks without a sub feels like eternity
It has probably already been mentioned, but what sub are you coming from previously?
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post #2263 of 3673 Old 04-19-2015, 01:49 PM
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It has probably already been mentioned, but what sub are you coming from previously?

I had a pair of Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX subs.
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post #2264 of 3673 Old 04-19-2015, 06:15 PM
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Dang, was hoping for next week or by the end of the month. Going 5-6 weeks without a sub feels like eternity
The wait will be worth it.

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post #2265 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 08:36 AM
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I have gone without subs for over 3 months, but it sounds like the wait is coming to a close. Keep in mind that I am getting subs with the existing speaker power torpedo amps and the already used 2k drivers, but it sounds like one will finally be shipped this week with the other two coming next week! They should each be over 200 lbs so this will be a good test of the shipper that is chosen. I sure hope be setting one up this weekend! Can't wait!
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post #2266 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post
I have gone without subs for over 3 months, but it sounds like the wait is coming to a close. Keep in mind that I am getting subs with the existing speaker power torpedo amps and the already used 2k drivers, but it sounds like one will finally be shipped this week with the other two coming next week! They should each be over 200 lbs so this will be a good test of the shipper that is chosen. I sure hope be setting one up this weekend! Can't wait!

I've got you beat by two months Josh!...lol
I sold my old subs back at the beginning of December and was going to get two of the same subs as you, but then changed my mind to get three Gamma 218's and a pair of CX-10's. With the amps being a little delayed due to SpeakerPower I've been without subs a lot longer then I intended!...lol


Oh well such is life, I know it'll be worth the wait though once I have them next month.
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post #2267 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 01:28 PM
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I've got you beat by two months Josh!...lol
I sold my old subs back at the beginning of December and was going to get two of the same subs as you, but then changed my mind to get three Gamma 218's and a pair of CX-10's.
A friend of mine was looking to buy two Reaction Audio Gama 218 subs at $3,249/pair or two Captivator 1400's at JTR's pre-sale price of $3,198/pair.

I suspect the RA's dual opposed sealed 18" drivers have the same 1400w ICE amplifier that JTR is using, but they're calling it 1850w. I believe it may be the ICEpower amp that consists of two (2) 700 ASC/ASX amp modules; each module is rated 1% THD at 700w @ 8 ohms and 350w @ 4 ohms 800w (10% THD at 800w @ 4 ohms). Unless the RA 18" drivers are rated at 8 ohms, they're each probably going to get half the power of the single JTR 18" driver drawing from the same amp. The JTR drivers have a 30mm Xmax (60mm total) and the RA drivers have a 3" (76mm) voice coil. The JTR motor may be more powerful at 256 (bl^2/re) whereas the RE motor is unspecified. The JTR's response is 16-190 Hz +/- 1 db while the RA's response is 20-200 Hz.

From what I've seen in the DIY section the greater efficiency in output of a ported sub outweighs the output of a sealed sub when using the same driver. However, I don't know what the comparison is between dual opposed sealed versus single ported using the same driver. I know that you replaced your PSA XS30 sealed dual opposed 15" subs with DIY ported UXL-18" subs and were very pleased with the improvement. Attached is your graph showing three SI 18's, ported vs sealed. You commented it wasn't until about 12-13hz that the sealed design had the advantage, however, the output advantage of a ported sub from 15-40hz was not even close. Others have also gone ported over sealed for the same reasons.

Why did you decide to go with the sealed dual opposed RE 218'?

How would a pair of RE 218's compare to a pair of JTR Cap-1400's at the same price?
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post #2268 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 02:06 PM
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A friend of mine was looking to buy two Reaction Audio Gama 218 subs at $3,249/pair or two Captivator 1400's at JTR's pre-sale price of $3,198/pair.

I suspect the RA's dual opposed sealed 18" drivers have the same 1400w ICE amplifier that JTR is using, but they're calling it 1850w. I believe it may be the ICEpower amp that consists of two (2) 700 ASC/ASX amp modules; each module is rated 1% THD at 700w @ 8 ohms and 350w @ 4 ohms 800w (10% THD at 800w @ 4 ohms). Unless the RA 18" drivers are rated at 8 ohms, they're each probably going to get half the power of the single JTR 18" driver drawing from the same amp. The JTR drivers have a 30mm Xmax (60mm total) and the RA drivers have a 3" (76mm) voice coil. The JTR motor may be more powerful at 256 (bl^2/re) whereas the RE motor is unspecified. The JTR's response is 16-190 Hz +/- 1 db while the RA's response is 20-200 Hz.

From what I've seen in the DIY section the greater efficiency in output of a ported sub outweighs the output of a sealed sub when using the same driver. However, I don't know what the comparison is between dual opposed sealed versus single ported using the same driver. I know that you replaced your PSA XS30 sealed dual opposed 15" subs with DIY ported UXL-18" subs and were very pleased with the improvement. Attached is your graph showing three SI 18's, ported vs sealed. You commented it wasn't until about 12-13hz that the sealed design had the advantage, however, the output advantage of a ported sub from 15-40hz was not even close. Others have also gone ported over sealed for the same reasons.

Why did you decide to go with the sealed dual opposed RE 218'?

How would a pair of RE 218's compare to a pair of JTR Cap-1400's at the same price?

I suspect that Joe or Jeremy will have a much better answer than I would but I think a better comparison would be between the Echo 18 and the Cap 1400.

I think it all comes down to what your priorities are. The Cap 1400 should be pretty flat down to its port tune in the 16 HZ range. Below that, the 218 would have a clear advantage in the ULF as the Cap and Echo will fall off dramatically below their port tune.

Without measurements, it would be difficult to say which sub would have the advantage above 16 HZ. I think Jeremy is planning on sending a few subs to data-bass for measuring and I also think that Jeff is going to send a Cap 1400 so that will clear this up. My OPINION is that the 218 would be able to keep (if not slightly exceed) up with the Cap 1400 in terms of output but in terms of FEEL, the ported design of the Echo 18 and the Cap 2400 will provide a more tactile sensation. Again, it may come down to what design you prefer and what your room is like. If you are on a concrete floor, then ported may be the way to go unless you go with multiple sealed subs. If you are after <20 HZ ULF then a sealed design may be the way to go.

Another idea would be to read through some of the GTG results comparing the Cap 2400 to some sealed designs like the Submersive HP. People have widely ranging opinions based upon what they hear (and feel) - not necessarily measurements. Just based upon what others wrote, it was easy for me to go with multiple sealed subs as I don't want to give up the ULF.

I personally am going with multiple sealed subs to get the best of both worlds. Again, the above is mostly opinion and speculation based upon what we know. I have not had the pleasure of hearing any of the above and without measurements, it is all speculation.

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post #2269 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 02:13 PM
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is a great resource with lots of nice opinions on the differences between popular ported and sealed designs.

Subwoofer Shootout / Subwoofer Roundup - URL lists
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Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
A friend of mine was looking to buy two Reaction Audio Gama 218 subs at $3,249/pair or two Captivator 1400's at JTR's pre-sale price of $3,198/pair.

How would a pair of RE 218's compare to a pair of JTR Cap-1400's at the same price?
Just want to point out that a pair of JTR' Captivator 1400 even at pre-sale price are closer to $3500 when you factor in the shipping. The price of a pair of RA's Gamma 218's of $3249 already include shipping.

So the price difference is more like $250 not $50.
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post #2271 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterc613 View Post
A friend of mine was looking to buy two Reaction Audio Gama 218 subs at $3,249/pair or two Captivator 1400's at JTR's pre-sale price of $3,198/pair.

I suspect the RA's dual opposed sealed 18" drivers have the same 1400w ICE amplifier that JTR is using, but they're calling it 1850w. I believe it may be the ICEpower amp that consists of two (2) 700 ASC/ASX amp modules; each module is rated 1% THD at 700w @ 8 ohms and 350w @ 4 ohms 800w (10% THD at 800w @ 4 ohms). Unless the RA 18" drivers are rated at 8 ohms, they're each probably going to get half the power of the single JTR 18" driver drawing from the same amp. The JTR drivers have a 30mm Xmax (60mm total) and the RA drivers have a 3" (76mm) voice coil. The JTR motor may be more powerful at 256 (bl^2/re) whereas the RE motor is unspecified. The JTR's response is 16-190 Hz +/- 1 db while the RA's response is 20-200 Hz.

From what I've seen in the DIY section the greater efficiency in output of a ported sub outweighs the output of a sealed sub when using the same driver. However, I don't know what the comparison is between dual opposed sealed versus single ported using the same driver. I know that you replaced your PSA XS30 sealed dual opposed 15" subs with DIY ported UXL-18" subs and were very pleased with the improvement. Attached is your graph showing three SI 18's, ported vs sealed. You commented it wasn't until about 12-13hz that the sealed design had the advantage, however, the output advantage of a ported sub from 15-40hz was not even close. Others have also gone ported over sealed for the same reasons.

Why did you decide to go with the sealed dual opposed RE 218'?

How would a pair of RE 218's compare to a pair of JTR Cap-1400's at the same price?
We are running drivers with slightly higher than 3 ohm impedance. In the 218, one driver on each amplifier module. The modules do 700w at full bandwidth at low THD at 4 ohms per module. Rock solid.

They will do a little more than a db at higher THD and are stable down to 2.7 ohms. The amps they replaced: the Dayton SPA-1000s we found really could not reach the rated output at any THD or bandwidth. So a single ICE module is more powerful any way you slice it.

As far as the ported vs sealed, the Echo 18 has a slight advantage near port tune but above and below that the 218 will have a significant advantage.

I would think the JTR sub would have a few db advantage over the ECHO-18 across the board due to the larger amp and robust driver and the most tactile feel. So I think all 3 subs mentioned have their own strengths at the given price points. I would expect the Gamma 218 to have the greatest overall output and a strong advantage from 40-80hz as well as the deepest extension. It really just comes down to your budget and performance goals.

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post #2272 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 04:32 PM
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Looking at driver specs, its easy to see the driver used in the Cap 1400 is a BEAST...Not to take anything away from the drivers RA uses because they are also very Capable!! I agree with Jeremy that the Cap 1400 is going to top the Echo 18 as it should given their respective price points. I do think the Echo18 will have more then enough output for most enthusiasts let alone a pair. It seems as if these 2015 ID subs are getting to a point that both sealed or ported alignments have enough output and extension to deliver reference levels in the all most important 15-80hz range in almost any room. Pick one and roll with it... Good times in the ID sub community!!
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Looking at driver specs, its easy to see the driver used in the Cap 1400 is a BEAST...Not to take anything away from the drivers RA uses because they are also very Capable!! I agree with Jeremy that the Cap 1400 is going to top the Echo 18 as it should given their respective price points. I do think the Echo18 will have more then enough output for most enthusiasts let alone a pair. It seems as if these 2015 ID subs are getting to a point that both sealed or ported alignments have enough output and extension to deliver reference levels in the all most important 15-80hz range in almost any room. Pick one and roll with it... Good times in the ID sub community!!
The drivers are indeed very capable. We were looking at using the 65 lb beast we used in the PS-18x in a ported version but found diminishing returns. We managed to get an extremely high BL out of two Y35 magnets and a driver that will get full excursion out of a single module.

We could always do a custom build as such with the larger driver but I would suspect the SP1-2400 to be a better match for the driver to take full advantage. Even still, the 218 would likely smoke it at all but a narrow bandwidth. I like the "sweet spots" where we are.

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post #2274 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 05:37 PM
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The drivers are indeed very capable. We were looking at using the 65 lb beast we used in the PS-18x in a ported version but found diminishing returns. We managed to get an extremely high BL out of two Y35 magnets and a driver that will get full excursion out of a single module.

We could always do a custom build as such with the larger driver but I would suspect the SP1-2400 to be a better match for the driver to take full advantage. Even still, the 218 would likely smoke it at all but a narrow bandwidth. I like the "sweet spots" where we are.
The 218's are an amazing deal for the performance they should bring! And there really isn't anything else out there like them. Affordable dual opposed 18's.
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post #2275 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 06:00 PM
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Agreed! The 218 is money!!

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post #2276 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by yosh7 View Post
The 218's are an amazing deal for the performance they should bring! And there really isn't anything else out there like them. Affordable dual opposed 18's.

Yeah those dual 18's sure are beautiful. Personally I am highly interested in the echo 18 and have been trying to come up with reasons not to at least audition a pair of them. I am coming up pretty darn empty in that department lol.
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post #2277 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 09:13 PM
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Just want to point out that a pair of JTR' Captivator 1400 even at pre-sale price are closer to $3500 when you factor in the shipping. The price of a pair of RA's Gamma 218's of $3249 already include shipping.

So the price difference is more like $250 not $50.
He will get free shipping if he buys 4 or more. Peterc613 has a group buying post at JTR thread.
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post #2278 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by superbabyboy1984 View Post
He will get free shipping if he buys 4 or more. Peterc613 has a group buying post at JTR thread.
Free shipping? I thought if guys bought four or more it was discounted shipping because all four would ship on a single pallet?
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post #2279 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 10:21 PM
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He will get free shipping if he buys 4 or more. Peterc613 has a group buying post at JTR thread.
Yes. I just want to point it out so that the others wouldn't think JTF is offering free shipping now.

Last edited by chucky7; 04-22-2015 at 09:58 AM.
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post #2280 of 3673 Old 04-21-2015, 10:23 PM
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Free shipping? I thought if guys bought four or more it was discounted shipping because all four would ship on a single pallet?
Yes. An order of 4 or more subs delivered to the same location would get free shipping.
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