Terrible customer service at SVS - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


A carrier is a contractor that is a go between for the buyer and a seller. If the buyer doesn't like the carrier, the buyer should not purchase the product. If business transactions like this worked the way that you guys want, there would be all kinds of scams.

As the mutually agreed upon go between, when the carrier claims delivery, it is logical that the buyer has to work with the carrier in an instance like this because only the buyer can provide the evidence. The carrier is the guarantor here of delivery, not the seller. How could the seller be responsible for delivery? That's the whole purpose of having a carrier.

Meanwhile, only the buyer can know with certainty the that item was not received. A seller only knows this second hand. So the buyer and the carrier have to work together to establish the problem with the delivery claims. If the carrier refuses to work with the buyer, then certainly the shipper could complain, but it still ultimately up to the buyer to work with the carrier to establish his claims.

The shipper (SVS) has contracted Fedex to deliver an item safely to it's destination. If you hired a builder to construct your home and the foundation drops on your head, who's fault is that? Yours for hiring him or the builder for being incompetent?

As customer, you paid for a product and the service to deliver it to your door. Now if he opted not to use SVS to ship it and asked that a third party pick it up and deliver, that's another story. SVS made the arrangements to ship with a shipper they use as part of their operation.

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post #92 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

The shipper (SVS) has contracted Fedex to deliver an item safely to it's destination. If you hired a builder to construct your home and the foundation drops on your head, who's fault is that? Yours for hiring him or the builder for being incompetent?

And if the builder had reason to believe you had built a 50,000 gallon aquarium inside your house, he would tell you to pound sand. The only thing being asked of the OP is to establish that the shipment was stolen. That's it. He hasn't done it. Once he does, the problem is solved.
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post #93 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ermghoti View Post

And if the builder had reason to believe you had built a 50,000 gallon aquarium inside your house, he would tell you to pound sand. The only thing being asked of the OP is to establish that the shipment was stolen. That's it. He hasn't done it. Once he does, the problem is solved.

We're not using exceptions as part of the scenario here. The shipper did not request special delivery instruction (leave in a street corner or third party) This is pretty straight forward. He simply tells SVS he never received it. SVS needs to handle the claim. If course the intended recipient needs to cooperate. That is a given but by no means is this his problem.
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post #94 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

OP paid for his subs to SVS. FedEx is SVS approved delivery company. So, if an item has not been received by the buyer for XYZ reason, SVS should take the responsibility. I do not think OP needs to run after police or FedEx. SVS should help resolve the matter themselves.

I think CS is not limited to being on the phone and forums like this to assist people calibrating their subs. It is a complete package. And if this is what SVS is doing to their customers, it sucks.

I actually agree.

Who sends more than $500 worth of goods in a huge box(es) with NO direct signature at all is just asking for trouble. That's the cheap way out. If customers complain that theyre stuff isnt being delivered because they arent there to sign, then too bad. It's better than having stuff like this happen.

The customer shouldn't have to jump through hoops and hoops to get what they ordered, even if it is Fed Ex who mis-delivered the package. Not saying I 100% believe in the validity of OP's situation, but it's certainly likely.
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post #95 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:30 PM
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... SVS needs to handle the claim.
According to the OP's original post:
- SVS contacted FedEx and received documented proof that the package was delivered to the correct address and that a required signature was obtained.
- SVS forwarded the documented proof to the OP.
- SVS then asked the OP for the names and phone numbers of the people at FedEx and the local police station with whom the OP spoke, so that they could follow up on the matter.

As far as I can tell, SVS is batting 1.000 for CS.
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post #96 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

This seems pretty straight forward to me.

1) I would insist SVS file a claim with Fedex. They are the shipper, you never received your order regardless if Fedex claims someone signed it. You are stating it was not you or anyone living in the residence.

2) File the police with your local town.

3) File a claim with your CC company. You did not receive what you paid for.


I thought I read somewhere on this thread that SVS does not ensure for the full value. If that's true, shame on SVS. That's not your problem. SVS is responsible until the product you ordered is in your hands. SVS need to file a claim with Fedex, handle all the associated paperwork and dispute the claim if Fedex denies. They are the shipper.

 

Regarding 1, how can SVS file a claim?  They cannot know that FedEx did not deliver it.  In fact, the best evidence they have is that it was delivered and signed for.  The person who claims that he did not get it needs to complain to FedEx.

 

As things are, SVS has been doing what they can to help him, but the person who claims that he did not receive the subwoofers needs to be involved, and not simply sit back and hope that things can be sorted out without him.

 

Your 2 & 3 are fine.


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post #97 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

The shipper (SVS) has contracted Fedex to deliver an item safely to it's destination. If you hired a builder to construct your home and the foundation drops on your head, who's fault is that? Yours for hiring him or the builder for being incompetent?

As customer, you paid for a product and the service to deliver it to your door. Now if he opted not to use SVS to ship it and asked that a third party pick it up and deliver, that's another story. SVS made the arrangements to ship with a shipper they use as part of their operation.

Your example that I highlighted first makes no sense. It's not about a fault in this situation. And in the second part I highlighted, yes. The buyer paid for the product AND paid a carrier to deliver that product to him. There's no dispute that item was shipped. That the seller's obligation. The dispute is over whether or not the item was delivered to the buyer. It's only logical that the buyer has to work with the carrier on that. So far, it doesn't sound like the OP has figured out how to make a delivery dispute claim with FedEX and found out what their process is. That's the first step.

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post #98 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

Regarding 1, how can SVS file a claim?  They cannot know that FedEx did not deliver it.  In fact, the best evidence they have is that it was delivered and signed for.  The person who claims that he did not get it needs to complain to FedEx.

Your 2 & 3 are fine.


No.. The intended recipient needs to notify the shipper. Who's account number is on the tracking info? Who paid for the service? SVS. They need to contact Fedex and notify them that their customer did not receive the package they shipped.

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post #99 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Your example that I highlighted first makes no sense. It's not about a fault in this situation. And in the second part I highlighted, yes. The buyer paid for the product AND paid a carrier to deliver that product to him. There's no dispute that item was shipped. That the seller's obligation. The dispute is over whether or not the item was delivered to the buyer. It's only logical that the buyer has to work with the carrier on that. So far, it doesn't sound like the OP has figured out how to make a delivery dispute claim with FedEX and found out what their process is. That's the first step.

The first step is SVS filing a claim that the recipient did not receive the package. The second step is fedex to launch an investigation and confirm with the intended recipient. It starts with SVS following through on the OP claim that they never received the package. Also, to make it clear, the buyer did not pay a carrier. He paid the seller. The seller paid the carrier.

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post #100 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

The first step is SVS filing a claim that the recipient did not receive the package. The second step is fedex to launch an investigation and confirm with the intended recipient. It starts with SVS following through on the OP claim that they never received the package.

Well, since you ignore the logic of what I've tried to explain, then just know that because you want it to work that way doesn't mean it works that way. I was involved in a dispute over delivery before with UPS. The seller DOES NOT file the claim (not sure about FedEX). The buyer has to, as they are the one disputing the delivery. Now if the carrier doesn't work with the buyer on the claim dispute, then certainly the shipper could complain.

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post #101 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Your example that I highlighted first makes no sense. It's not about a fault in this situation. And in the second part I highlighted, yes. The buyer paid for the product AND paid a carrier to deliver that product to him. There's no dispute that item was shipped. That the seller's obligation. The dispute is over whether or not the item was delivered to the buyer. It's only logical that the buyer has to work with the carrier on that. So far, it doesn't sound like the OP has figured out how to make a delivery dispute claim with FedEX and found out what their process is. That's the first step.

The buyer paid SVS for shipping. SVS then arranged for shipping.

Having said that, the original post seems like fish from a supermarket. It's fish, but something doesn't smell right...

I mean if you have proof from SVS/FedEx saying it was delivered to your address with a signature not known to you, you have sufficient proof to file a police report for stolen goods. You have the right to file a report. It does not mean the police agree or substantiate your claim. You are just recording your official statement with the police.

You have more thumbs up than posts. Let's investigate THAT!
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post #102 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:45 PM
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Correct. I'm not a Fedex shipper but I am a UPS shipper. In these situations, I contact UPS for what they call a trace. The trace is put in the hands of the route driver who visits the intended recipient to get the thing straightened out. It it was misdelivered no one will know that better than the route driver. If it was stolen from a porch then UPS will not have a receipt signature and will reimburse me for the product up to the amount of insurance purchased. If the recipient signed for it, then case closed.
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post #103 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Well, since you ignore the logic of what I've tried to explain, then just know that because you want it to work that way doesn't mean it works that way. I was involved in a dispute over delivery before with UPS. The seller DOES NOT file the claim (not sure about FedEX). The buyer has to, as they are the one disputing the delivery. Now if the carrier doesn't work with the buyer on the claim dispute, then certainly the shipper could complain.

Working with the carrier is not the same as filing the dispute. The seller needs to initiate. Of course the buyer needs to cooperate but he should not be leading this.

I guess we need to agree to disagree on this point but remind me not to pay you to ship something to me . smile.gif

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post #104 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Correct. I'm not a Fedex shipper but I am a UPS shipper. In these situations, I contact UPS for what they call a trace. The trace is put in the hands of the route driver who visits the intended recipient to get the thing straightened out. It it was misdelivered no one will know that better than the route driver. If it was stolen from a porch then UPS will not have a receipt signature and will reimburse me for the product up to the amount of insurance purchased. If the recipient signed for it, then case closed.

Has the process changed now? My experience with UPS is from several years ago.

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post #105 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 01:00 PM
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I decided it might be a good idea to introduce some facts.  Here is a pdf of the form and instructions for filing a complaint:

 

http://images.fedex.com/us/customer/claims/Claims_Form_2012.pdf

 

According to FedEx, either the sender or the receiver or even a third party can file a claim.  It can also be done online instead of using the form above:

 

http://www.fedex.com/us/customersupport/managing/claims/index.html

 

SVS has obviously contacted FedEx, and FedEx has provided SVS with evidence that it was delivered and signed for.  SVS is not in a position to prove that it was not delivered, nor can they know what the receiver's signature looks like.  My guess is, that if FedEx does not internally see any problem, there is nothing more for SVS to do, since they cannot prove it was not delivered.  If it was not delivered, then the receiver of it needs to act like it was not delivered and needs to file a complaint.  If the receiver does not file a complaint, what reason is there to believe that it was not actually delivered?

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post #106 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 01:05 PM
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Don't they usually ask for a name from the person that signed? What name was given?

The problem here with having SVS on the hook is that anyone could order 2 subs (two of the most expensive they sell, also), put a phony signature to FedEx, and then claim they never received them.

How is SVS supposed to differentiate between real claims and not? Once SVS gives the equipment to FedEx, liability should transfer to them at that point.

I'm still curious why it was $3200 and not $3000, though.
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post #107 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

Don't they usually ask for a name from the person that signed? What name was given?

The problem here with having SVS on the hook is that anyone could order 2 subs (two of the most expensive they sell, also), put a phony signature to FedEx, and then claim they never received them.

How is SVS supposed to differentiate between real claims and not? Once SVS gives the equipment to FedEx, liability should transfer to them at that point.

I'm still curious why it was $3200 and not $3000, though.

Exactly. REQUIRE A DIRECT SIGNATURE.
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post #108 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 01:11 PM
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Come on now fellas, he may not have been able to take a day off. Lay off em guys.

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post #109 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 01:26 PM
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Hey that's a new saying, I like that.. cone on ! wink.gif Not to make light of the subject though. Like mentioned, I just see no other way for SVS to handle the situation.
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post #110 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 01:30 PM
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...

I'm still curious why it was $3200 and not $3000, though.

 

I was curious about that, too, so I decided to visit their site and put subwoofers in a cart.  If you add them separately, you don't get the discount showing up in the cart.  But if you add them as the dual option, you do get the deal showing up in the cart.  In the cart, the dual option is listed as one thing in the cart.  Putting two of the subwoofers in the cart separately has 2 items listed as being in the cart.  So, it would seem if the buyer does not select the deal, the buyer does not get the deal.  But as I did not complete the order, I cannot be certain of how the actual billing would be. But this would seem to be the first mistake that the OP made in this process.  Now the OP needs to follow through on pursuing the issue and not simply sit back and complain to people like us about what is going on.  Thus far, according to what the OP has claimed, SVS has been doing everything that they should be doing, and everything that they reasonably can be doing.  Frankly, the OP is convincing me that SVS is really a great company, with great customer service.  That they do not have a magic wand to instantly resolve the issue is not something I hold against them.

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post #111 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 01:43 PM
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SVS is at fault, they chose and paid for the delivery service and the transaction isn't completed so SVS is on the hook (this of course assuming this is the complete story but it sounds all too familiar as I've had my own similar adventures with Fedex and UPS; I do note it is a newer AVS member so hard to establish his veracity around here also). In any case, should the facts be as detailed,, SVS is disputing their own customer's advice that he did not receive nor is the signature from SVS' carrier for the package his signature. Fedex and UPS both suck at collecting signatures....puhleese, indirect signatures when no one was home for a shipment of this size?---so they had the driver create his own signature, or did a neighbor sign? Which one? They don't record this? Lame. Until the customer actually receives what he pays for SVS is on the hook, hopefully the credit card company will prevail for their customer. It would be different if the customer had arranged shipping on his own nickel but basically a company like SVS is selling a delivered product by paying for shipment; the transaction cannot possibly be complete until delivered and the customer should be at least refunded his money. If SVS or Fedex have reason to believe the consignee is trying to defraud them, that's another matter.....

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post #112 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

I was curious about that, too, so I decided to visit their site and put subwoofers in a cart.  If you add them separately, you don't get the discount showing up in the cart.  But if you add them as the dual option, you do get the deal showing up in the cart.  In the cart, the dual option is listed as one thing in the cart.  Putting two of the subwoofers in the cart separately has 2 items listed as being in the cart.  So, it would seem if the buyer does not select the deal, the buyer does not get the deal.  But as I did not complete the order, I cannot be certain of how the actual billing would be. But this would seem to be the first mistake that the OP made in this process.  Now the OP needs to follow through on pursuing the issue and not simply sit back and complain to people like us about what is going on.  Thus far, according to what the OP has claimed, SVS has been doing everything that they should be doing, and everything that they reasonably can be doing.  Frankly, the OP is convincing me that SVS is really a great company, with great customer service.  That they do not have a magic wand to instantly resolve the issue is not something I hold against them.

Interesting. Considering how much SVS goes out of their way to give discounts and price breaks to customers, I figure they would see that he bought two and give him the discount. Of course that's just a guess.

I do agree though with what has transpired so far, there is nothing else SVS can do until the buyer follows through with other stuff. The only thing they should have done initially was to have insurance, which it seems odd not to on such an expensive item. I wonder if they will take the time to comment on this situation but, tbh, if I were them I wouldn't say anything until its resolved. If OP was expecting them to just automatically send out several thousand dollars worth of equipment again, no questions asked, he's going to be in for a surprise.

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SVS is at fault, they chose and paid for the delivery service and the transaction isn't completed so SVS is on the hook (this of course assuming this is the complete story but it sounds all too familiar as I've had my own similar adventures with Fedex and UPS; I do note it is a newer AVS member so hard to establish his veracity around here also). In any case, should the facts be as detailed,, SVS is disputing their own customer's advice that he did not receive nor is the signature from SVS' carrier for the package his signature. Fedex and UPS both suck at collecting signatures....puhleese, indirect signatures when no one was home for a shipment of this size?---so they had the driver create his own signature, or did a neighbor sign? Which one? They don't record this? Lame. Until the customer actually receives what he pays for SVS is on the hook, hopefully the credit card company will prevail for their customer. It would be different if the customer had arranged shipping on his own nickel but basically a company like SVS is selling a delivered product by paying for shipment; the transaction cannot possibly be complete until delivered and the customer should be at least refunded his money. If SVS or Fedex have reason to believe the consignee is trying to defraud them, that's another matter.....

He has to substantiate that he didn't receive the product, somehow. The burden is on him in this case (and he should prove it to FedEx).

Otherwise anyone could order super expensive items, make a fake signature, then just claim they didn't receive them. Fraud isn't a new concept, after all.
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post #114 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 01:54 PM
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Funny thing is the OP just seems to have a string of odd comments. He didn't bother to check his tracking info for a week. He paid too much for the duals. A signature was provided but he doesn't know by whom. The police won't take a report for what he says are stollen goods. SVS has the wrong telephone number for him. SVS has the temerity to ask for names and numbers of who he spoke with to try to verify any part of his story.

If he is being honest he is both very unlucky and very cavalier with his money while only blaming one party because they asked for an indirect signature only (I have no idea if other mfg's / ID's ask for direct only but the only time I remember needing to show identification for a shipment was for a wine club due to liquor laws). If SVS doesn't insure and a package is damaged, they'll eat the loss. But if a package is insured or not through the carrier makes no difference if the carrier shows it as delivered and the recipient has nothing to show it wasn't, hence why the police report is necessary.

As for the chargeback, speaking as someone who used to manage fraud claims and chargebacks for one of the largest banks in the world, good luck without a police report. The shipper and seller have evidence of products being sent and delivered, the OP has nothing. That all changes with a police report. Nothing changes with posting on AVS except spleen venting and trying to smear a companies reputation or exert undue pressure on them.

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post #115 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 01:58 PM
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Showing his signature doesn't match and filing a formal claim should be easy enough. The burden is on Fedex since the consignee has advised he did not receive the product nor was the signature provided his own. SVS hired Fedex and they are as a result on the hook here to straighten it out. I've spent most of my adult life in the logistics business (I remember when Fedex was a startup). This is how it works, Fedex and UPS both play games with signatures so they can keep their trucks moving, not necessarily provide better service. No doubt the OP isn't as well known around here as SVS, so around here he is probably being viewed suspiciously. Maybe there's something the OP isn't telling us but if he is accurate then SVS is falling down here.

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post #116 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

SVS is at fault, they chose and paid for the delivery service and the transaction isn't completed so SVS is on the hook (this of course assuming this is the complete story but it sounds all too familiar as I've had my own similar adventures with Fedex and UPS; I do note it is a newer AVS member so hard to establish his veracity around here also). In any case, should the facts be as detailed,, SVS is disputing their own customer's advice that he did not receive nor is the signature from SVS' carrier for the package his signature. Fedex and UPS both suck at collecting signatures....puhleese, indirect signatures when no one was home for a shipment of this size?---so they had the driver create his own signature, or did a neighbor sign? Which one? They don't record this? Lame. Until the customer actually receives what he pays for SVS is on the hook, hopefully the credit card company will prevail for their customer. It would be different if the customer had arranged shipping on his own nickel but basically a company like SVS is selling a delivered product by paying for shipment; the transaction cannot possibly be complete until delivered and the customer should be at least refunded his money. If SVS or Fedex have reason to believe the consignee is trying to defraud them, that's another matter.....

He has to substantiate that he didn't receive the product, somehow. The burden is on him in this case (and he should prove it to FedEx).

Otherwise anyone could order super expensive items, make a fake signature, then just claim they didn't receive them. Fraud isn't a new concept, after all.

 

Indeed.  According to the OP, SVS wants him to file a police report.  He has not done so, according to what he has stated.  His story that the police told him that he can't seems strange.  And the OP complains that SVS wants to know the details of who he spoke with at the police department, as that is something that isn't right (even if it is true that a police officer told him that).  Basically, he complains that SVS does not solve the problem instantly, and he complains about them trying to solve the problem by getting all the details of what is going on.

 

Now, no reasonable person is going to have a problem with them wanting to have a proper investigation of the matter, or with them wanting a police report filed.  After all, there are plenty of dishonest people, so just taking someone's word for it and shipping out some more subwoofers would be ridiculous.  He needs to act like his story is true in order for anyone to reasonably believe his story is true.  He needs to cooperate with an investigation into what is happening, or he has no right to complain about the results.  If they were not delivered to him, he needs to pursue that idea and cooperate with a proper investigation.  Otherwise, there is no reason for anyone else to believe that they were not actually delivered, and that he is just trying to get an extra pair of subwoofers for free.  In all cases, everyone should believe what they have most reason to believe, which means he needs to behave in a manner that fits his story.  Complaining about SVS trying to find out what happened fits better with the idea of fraud than with the idea that they were not actually delivered.


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post #117 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 02:08 PM
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Remember, there are quite a few rude cops that will dismiss it too quickly and treat him poorly.

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post #118 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Showing his signature doesn't match and filing a formal claim should be easy enough. ....

 

Yes, it should be easy enough.  So why doesn't he do it?


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post #119 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ys80 View Post

I feel as though they are not helping me that's my problem with them.

What I gather from your comments is that SVS was trying to help you in asking for names of the parties you spoke to. Maybe tell us what exactly you expected?

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As far as I can tell, SVS is batting .100 for CS.

I'm guessing you meant .1000 here :-)
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post #120 of 299 Old 01-20-2014, 02:25 PM
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Maybe the cops took it tongue.gif

I don't think the OP really understands how things like this get resolved and should take advice from many of these responses. Unless you can give SVS a police report and/or the name(s) of the police you were talking to, there is NOTHING they can do to help. Its not that they don't believe you, they have rules to follow otherwise everybody would be lying and getting free subs sent.

As to people making a point about no insurance on the shipping. SVS states how they ship their subs. I'm sure if you really wanted insurance added SVS would gladly charge you the extra amount and make you pay for it. Why does everybody wants everything for free.
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