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post #1 of 67 Old 01-20-2014, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I need to replace a Polk Audio 8 inch subwoofer (that barely performs) for my living room which is huge and has tile floors.  I only want one subwoofer and I really would like to come in under $350.  What is the best bang for the buck??? 

 

I've read about the Premier Acoustic PA-150 on another thread and I would totally consider that but I cannot find for my price point.  People said they paid $350 for theirs but it is currently listed at $499.  

 

Other things I've looked at:

 

Klipsch Sub-12HG

 

Bic America F12

 

Polk Audio PSW125

 

I have no experience with any of these.  I obviously think that I need to go as big as I can for the budget so I didn't even look at the 10 inch subwoofers in the same price range.  

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  


Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #2 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 04:11 AM
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IMO:
- wait for a sale on the PA-150;
- get a JBL ES250P for $250, shipped, at Amazon.com (sold as the ES250PBK); or
- do it right, save up and get the SVS PB-1000. smile.gif


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post #3 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I've read in a few places that the JBL has problems with the amplifier quality.

Also, the SVS you recommended is a 10 inch sub right? I literally have no feel of my subwoofer at my seating position right now. I want to make sure my purchase fills my room.

My room is 18 by 28 with 9 foot ceiling. All tile except one area rug. I need a powerful sub.

Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #4 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Also, the SVS you recommended is a 10 inch sub right?
Yes, but it's a powerful 10" sub.
Quote:
I literally have to feel of my subwoofer at my seating position right now. I want to make sure my purchase fills my room.

My room is 18 by 28. All tile except one area rug. I need a powerful sub.
Assuming an 8' ceiling, your room is 4,032 cu.ft. in size. That's a big space. You need a lot more than one powerful sub in that room and/or you need to place at least one sub close to your primarly listening position.

Or, given that you're able to feel your current 8" Polk sub, you need a "peaky" subwoofer with lots of mid-bass output. In this case, the PA-150 would likely be a better bet than the PB-1000.


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post #5 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 09:15 AM
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eljay is spot on!... Your room is huge and there are 2 reasons why you are feeling bass right now: 1 your sub probably has a huge peak in frequency response in the 40 - 50 hz range and, 2 probably most of what your sub is playing is distortion.

The SVS PB-1000 is the best sub for $499 shipped. And yes even tho its only a 10" its a very potent combo that no other sub that small in that price range can even come close to. That would be a good choice for you if you can place the sub near field.

The PA-150 may be the best choice for you because for the price it is an output monster and has a peak in frequency response in the area I mentioned. It doesn't extend very low but without nearfield placement I don't think you get much ultra low output from any single $500 or less sub.

Finally you may want to check out this new sub from this new company http://reaction-audio.myshopify.com/ ..... Reaction Audio the sub is called BPS 212 it is a dual 12" opposed sealed design. 200 Watts RMS amp for $399 shipped.

Shawn
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post #6 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I edited my post.  I have no feel for my current subwoofer while seated at my main listening position.  I have 9 foot ceilings as well.  It's actually a very horrible room acoustically.  Hence the reason why I wanted to get the biggest, most powerful subwoofer that my budget allowed.  

 

I'm not opposed to either subwoofers that were recommended, however, I would be waiting till I saw a sale of some sort.

 

So nobody would recommend the Klipsch Sub-12HG, Bic America F12 or Polk Audio PSW125?  


Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #7 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 09:33 AM
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Right now I use dual PB1000's in a room similar in size to yours, 4k cu ft and they work very well. I had then=m for a year and am upgrading to dual PB 2000's but If those did not come out
and with out SVS's great 1 year full credit upgrade policy i wouldn't have done it and been very happy with what I have now.

I still haven't set them up using REW and also have the SVS A1 EQ or what ever its called. And I know if i did take the time they'd sound even better.

So for that room dual smaller subs would be better than one larger IMO.

Athanasios


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post #8 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
I edited my post.  I have no feel for my current subwoofer while seated at my main listening position.
That makes more sense.
Quote:
I have 9 foot ceilings as well.
So, that's 4,536 cu.ft. That is a very big space.
Quote:
I'm not opposed to either subwoofers that were recommended, however, I would be waiting till I saw a sale of some sort.
Definitely wait for a sale on the PA-150. A sale on the PB-1000 is less likely.
Quote:
So nobody would recommend the Klipsch Sub-12HG, Bic America F12 or Polk Audio PSW125?
I wouldn't. smile.gif


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post #9 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, with my larger room size would it be more beneficial to get a ported enclosure or one that is sealed?  

 

Nashou66, you say you are upgrading to the PB 2000's?  I see that the SB-2000 is the same sub but in a sealed enclosure... is this correct?  I like the idea of the SVS (since you are all recommending it) but I would be more apt to get the larger 12 inch sub if I'm going to drastically exceed my budget anyway.  I would imagine the SB-2000 would very adequately fill my room with some ample sound!


Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #10 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 09:50 AM
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In a room the size of yours, ported is the better option.

The PB-2000 would be a solid step up from the PB-1000, but dual PB-1000s will provide for smoother overall frequency response at your primary listening position, while still providing a very good level of output.

If you're going to stretch your budget to get only one PB-2000 ($799, shipped), consider dual PB-1000s. They're $499/ea., shipped, but SVS offers "duals" packages and the dual PB-1000 package is $949, shipped.
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post #11 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

In a room the size of yours, ported is the better option.

The PB-2000 would be a solid step up from the PB-1000, but dual PB-1000s will provide for smoother overall frequency response at your primary listening position, while still providing a very good level of output.

If you're going to stretch your budget to get only one PB-2000 ($799, shipped), consider dual PB-1000s. They're $499/ea., shipped, but SVS offers "duals" packages and the dual PB-1000 package is $949, shipped.

Exactly, and you have 45 days to try them with no strings attached if you don't like them you can send them back. And if with in one year you want to upgrade or save up the extra coin fro the dual
PB 200's then you can go that route. SVS has the best Bill of rights of any ID company I have dealt with.

Nashou


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post #12 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post

Also, with my larger room size would it be more beneficial to get a ported enclosure or one that is sealed?  

Nashou66, you say you are upgrading to the PB 2000's?  I see that the SB-2000 is the same sub but in a sealed enclosure... is this correct?  I like the idea of the SVS (since you are all recommending it) but I would be more apt to get the larger 12 inch sub if I'm going to drastically exceed my budget anyway.  I would imagine the SB-2000 would very adequately fill my room with some ample sound!

Ported would be the way to go, so for your room I'd recommend 1 PB-1000 over 1 SB-2000. But as the other guys have stated I would go for no less than 2 PB-1000's. I have a 2400 cu/ft room with a 4' wide floor to ceiling opening to rest of the house. I have dual Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus subs and while I love them I wouldn't wanna go any less than them. I am just telling you this so that no matter what sub you buy you know what your up against. And PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING bad placement can make a great sub sound weak and great placement can make a crappy sub sound better. SVS makes some killer subs, BUT they design their subs with an almost ruler flat frequency response (which is a good thing) however most ppl don't understand what true good bass is and can be disappointed at first when they step up into "real" subwoofers.

Shawn
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post #13 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok so let me get a consensus here.  Out of all the subwoofers listed here, everyone would first go with dual PB-1000's?  

 

Let's just say that I can in no way have two subwoofers (the other half wouldn't allow it) so if that were the case which single sub would one get given my large room and the room's poor acoustic characteristics?

 

I am leaning toward the PA-150... and if I could find it on sale I think it would be an easier pill to swallow.  


Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #14 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 03:10 PM
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If you need to drop below the PB1000 budget wise I think the PA-150 ranks pretty good for a budget sub.  It wont have the low end extension of the pb1000 but mid and upper base will probably  be as good if not better.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #15 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 03:32 PM
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If there is any way you can stretch it, I would highly recommend going the PB-2000 route. It would most likely save you $$ in the short to long run.

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post #16 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 03:35 PM
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What about the PB12-NSD? You might find them discouted as the PB2000 is out.
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post #17 of 67 Old 01-21-2014, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Subber, is the PB12-NSD a discontinued SVS subwoofer? What would be the main difference between it and the PB2000?

Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #18 of 67 Old 01-22-2014, 03:55 AM
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Yes the PB12NSD is a discontinued sub, the PB2000 is replacing it. The PB2000's amp has 100 watts RMS more than the PB12NSD and the PB2000's -3db point is 17hz and the PB12NSD's -3db point is 18hz. So yes the PB2000 should perform a little better but the PB12NSD is still a very solid choice.

So if 2 subs are out of the question you need to get the biggest most powerful sub you can and place it nearfield (within 4ft of main listening position). I would suggest placing the sub right beside OR behind the main listening position.

Shawn
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post #19 of 67 Old 01-22-2014, 05:15 AM
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Op, what are your intended uses?  Is it primarily movies? Music?  I fear that stretching your budget to a $6-$800 sub will leave you disappointed due to your enormous space.  If you are not expecting gobs of low frequency extension, the PA-150 will more than double the output of the PB12-NSD or PB1000 from 35-80 Hz.  This will give you A LOT of headroom for the frequencies you hear with music.

 

I believe the only subs you should consider if you want a sub that digs deeper for movies, without exceeding $800 would be, in order, the PSA XV15, HSU VTF3, and the Outlaw LFM1-EX.  Due to you your enormous space, I would not recommend the (under $800) SVS subs.  They are GREAT subs, and it is what I purchased, but they are not output monsters 30-80 Hz.  Even with these max output leaders in this price range, the PA 150 will have higher max SPL above 50 Hz.

 

Although you have not specifically mentioned your max budget, you seem to be hesitant about the PA-150 for $499 and would rather wait for a sale of $350.  This would be the best compromise of output and price.  


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #20 of 67 Old 01-22-2014, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Great information!  I wish I could afford the PSA XV15 it looks like it might be just what my room could use.  

 

The room that this sub will be placed in is basically the most used room in the house.  It's the living room but since the house has an open floor plan it is also the kitchen, eating area, etc.  This receiver that this sub will be hooked up to is basically on several hours in the morning and evening.  It gets tons of use from HD cable, Netflix, BD movies and Pandora music. 

 

There really is no primary seating position since there is so much seating.  I would love to have the subwoofer in between couches but unfortunately I cannot run the sub cable there and running in wall is out of the question as it's an outside wall.  The subwoofer will basically be right next to the entertainment center on the tile.  

 

I am almost settled on the PA-150.... I just wish I could find it for less than $500.  If anyone finds a random deal than let me know.  I would like to buy from a place that does free return shipping in the event it doesn't perform for me.  


Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #21 of 67 Old 01-22-2014, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post

Great information!  I wish I could afford the PSA XV15 it looks like it might be just what my room could use.  

The room that this sub will be placed in is basically the most used room in the house.  It's the living room but since the house has an open floor plan it is also the kitchen, eating area, etc.  This receiver that this sub will be hooked up to is basically on several hours in the morning and evening.  It gets tons of use from HD cable, Netflix, BD movies and Pandora music. 

There really is no primary seating position since there is so much seating.  I would love to have the subwoofer in between couches but unfortunately I cannot run the sub cable there and running in wall is out of the question as it's an outside wall.  The subwoofer will basically be right next to the entertainment center on the tile.  

I am almost settled on the PA-150.... I just wish I could find it for less than $500.  If anyone finds a random deal than let me know.  I would like to buy from a place that does free return shipping in the event it doesn't perform for me.  


SVS has the 45 day no hassle return policy.

and have you thought of a cylinder sub? SVS has a PC12 ned for 649 shipped. nice looking and takes up less floor space.



Athanasios


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post #22 of 67 Old 01-22-2014, 10:08 AM
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IMO:
- Save up your money and get a single PB-2000.
- If it works for you, you're set.
- If it doesn't work for you, return it within 45 days and your in-home demo will have cost you $0.
- Then buy a PA-150, and use the difference to treat yourself (and a significant other, if applicable) to dinner at a nice restaurant.

smile.gif
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post #23 of 67 Old 01-22-2014, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

IMO:
- Save up your money and get a single PB-2000.
- If it works for you, you're set.
- If it doesn't work for you, return it within 45 days and your in-home demo will have cost you $0.
- Then buy a PA-150, and use the difference to treat yourself (and a significant other, if applicable) to dinner at a nice restaurant.

smile.gif

Good advice... I think I'm going to go with SVS.  The Merlin on SVSs' website recommended the SB-1000 for the Polk Audio Blackstone speakers I already have.  I kind of like the idea of a sealed enclosure simply because I remember liking the sound of the subwoofer more versus ported. 

 

Please feel free to critique this opinion as am really unfamiliar as to which would produce the sound that I like better.  If I save up and purchased an SB-2000 would that be as good a choice if not better than the PB-2000.  From what I can tell the only difference is sealed vs. ported.  Like I said.... the Merlin recommended the sealed SB-1000 for the speakers I already have.  


Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #24 of 67 Old 01-22-2014, 03:15 PM
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But I guess you didn't tell him your room size...
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post #25 of 67 Old 01-22-2014, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post

Good advice... I think I'm going to go with SVS.  The Merlin on SVSs' website recommended the SB-1000 for the Polk Audio Blackstone speakers I already have.  I kind of like the idea of a sealed enclosure simply because I remember liking the sound of the subwoofer more versus ported. 

Please feel free to critique this opinion as am really unfamiliar as to which would produce the sound that I like better.  If I save up and purchased an SB-2000 would that be as good a choice if not better than the PB-2000.  From what I can tell the only difference is sealed vs. ported.  Like I said.... the Merlin recommended the sealed SB-1000 for the speakers I already have.  

I wouldn't allow the Merlin tool to be the final deciding factor. You need a subwoofer that will cross over at the high 100-120hz range your speakers require. Both the PB and SB will do that effortlessly. In your space you need output, go ported. When you move to high quailty subwoofers the sound quailty between ported and sealed is hardly noticeable if at all but the output between sealed and ported is.

I would recommend svs outlet b stock pb12nsd. Full warranty subs and are basically brand new. I bought 3 SB12s from svs outlet and all 3 subwoofers came packaged/look like new. I am running a dual set up in a 20x18x9 room which is open completely to a kitchen which is larger. I am happy with the output they produce, this room is used mainly for music/tv/sports. PB12/PB2k would be a better performer but size restrictions don't allow it in my situation.

Call the seller that carries the PA-150 and make an offer for $350.00, from what I understand it works the same way as the BIC PL200 pricing.


Edit: pb12 b stock sold out only new units available.
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post #26 of 67 Old 01-22-2014, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I wouldn't allow the Merlin tool to be the final deciding factor. You need a subwoofer that will cross over at the high 100-120hz range your speakers require. Both the PB and SB will do that effortlessly. In your space you need output, go ported. When you move to high quailty subwoofers the sound quailty between ported and sealed is hardly noticeable if at all but the output between sealed and ported is.

I would recommend svs outlet b stock pb12nsd. Full warranty subs and are basically brand new. I bought 3 SB12s from svs outlet and all 3 subwoofers came packaged/look like new. I am running a dual set up in a 20x18x9 room which is open completely to a kitchen which is larger. I am happy with the output they produce, this room is used mainly for music/tv/sports. PB12/PB2k would be a better performer but size restrictions don't allow it in my situation.

Call the seller that carries the PA-150 and make an offer for $350.00, from what I understand it works the same way as the BIC PL200 pricing.


Edit: pb12 b stock sold out only new units available.

My room is huge and I understand that the ported will likely produce more output, its just that the larger enclosure will not fit in the perfect nook I have my current sub.  The SB-2000 would fit perfectly.  I wish I could afford two SB-2000s!

 

I like the idea of SVS and will continue to convince of the idea even if I have to save. 

 

Since you brought it up... What's the deal with the BIC PL200??? I just looked it up on Amazon and it's $328.99!!! That's a pretty amazing price.  Is it a performer?  Does anyone have any experience with it? 


Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

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post #27 of 67 Old 01-22-2014, 06:37 PM
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My room is huge and I understand that the ported will likely produce more output, its just that the larger enclosure will not fit in the perfect nook I have my current sub.  The SB-2000 would fit perfectly.  I wish I could afford two SB-2000s!

I like the idea of SVS and will continue to convince of the idea even if I have to save. 

Since you brought it up... What's the deal with the BIC PL200??? I just looked it up on Amazon and it's $328.99!!! That's a pretty amazing price.  Is it a performer?  Does anyone have any experience with it? 

The BIC PL200 can be had for $280 if you use the make an offer option here:
http://www.acousticsounddesign.com

Same amazon seller and same company that sells the PA-150 for $350

Will the size of the BIC work for you? If so read the review at data-bass.com.

I sold my PL200 to buy my current svs sb12 NSD. The main difference between the two was the bass quailty of the svs was noticeably better.
The PL200 is one of the best budget subwoofers out there. An issue you might face is crossing over above 100-120hz.
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The BIC PL200 can be had for $280 if you use the make an offer option here:
http://www.acousticsounddesign.com

Same amazon seller and same company that sells the PA-150 for $350

Will the size of the BIC work for you? If so read the review at data-bass.com.

I sold my PL200 to buy my current svs sb12 NSD. The main difference between the two was the bass quailty of the svs was noticeably better.
The PL200 is one of the best budget subwoofers out there. An issue you might face is crossing over above 100-120hz.

That website seems to praise SVS!!! The PA-150 review was very good as well.  BIC might not be what I am looking for consider the PA-150 might be had for $350.  I'll have to think about this for a few days.  You guys are awesome for taking the time educating me.  


Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #29 of 67 Old 01-22-2014, 10:45 PM
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That website seems to praise SVS!!! The PA-150 review was very good as well.  BIC might not be what I am looking for consider the PA-150 might be had for $350.  I'll have to think about this for a few days.  You guys are awesome for taking the time educating me.  

Save up for the SVS. If the PA150 does not meet your expectations your going to want to upgrade and when you do it will have cost you more money. Buy the SB/PB2000 and enjoy.
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My room is huge and I understand that the ported will likely produce more output, its just that the larger enclosure will not fit in the perfect nook I have my current sub.  The SB-2000 would fit perfectly.  I wish I could afford two SB-2000s!

 

I like the idea of SVS and will continue to convince of the idea even if I have to save. 

 

Since you brought it up... What's the deal with the BIC PL200??? I just looked it up on Amazon and it's $328.99!!! That's a pretty amazing price.  Is it a performer?  Does anyone have any experience with it? 


The PL200 has MUCH less output than the pa150.  Thats the difference.  Look at Data-Bass.com, it shows the output for both the pl200 and the pa 150


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

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