Help Spend 1000 on new sub or subs - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

I have a 1000 to play with, 1200 tops to buy a sub or subs. My set up currently is below, but I am buy rears and will upgrade LR in the near future so I want the sub to flexible for future. My room details are below as well.

Denon 2309ci
Pardigm mini Monitors v6
Paradigm cc390 center

The room is not a perfect rectangle as there is a bar area to the right of the listening area, but overall the room is

34'L x 20'W x 7' 8"H = 5200 or so.

I have been looking at a local store in Novi, MI that carries:

Parigidm Monitor Sub 12
Parigidm Monitor Sub 10
Golden Ear ForceField 4
Golden Ear ForceField 5

And Online at:

Hsu VTF 3 MK4
Hsu VTF 2 MK4
Hsu VTF 15H
Hsu ULS 15
SVS SB 1000
SVS SB 2000
SVS PB 1000
SVS PB 2000
SVS SB12 NSD

If I can, or more to the point my Denon can, support it I am open to Dual Subs but still in the 1000-1200 range. I am also open to other brands.

Thanks

Michael

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post #2 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 07:36 AM
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The stuff at your local stores don't represent the best value (performance for money). You've got a very large room - duals would be better than a single sub. Having said that, and given a max budget of $1,200, options include:

Single sub
- HSU VTF-15H ($879 + $143 shipping)
- SVS PB-2000 ($799, shipped)
- PSA XV-15 ($799, shipped)

Dual subs
- SVS PB-1000 ($949, shipped, for the pair)
- Rythmik LV12R ($599/ea., and shipping appears to be included)
- Outlaw LFM-1 Plus ($549 + shipping per sub - should come in around budget)


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post #3 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 07:38 AM
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Your room is very large.  I have three suggestions:

 

Single sub under $1200:  HSU VTF15H....this is your only realistic option for single sub under this price.

Dual subs:  SVS PB12-NSD...i think you can get this for $1200, last years model.  However these subs are not output monsters for a large room.

 

Given your room size, I suggest you consider a single Rythmik FV15HP due to the enormous output.  It will run you a bit over budget at $1400 or so.  Check Data-Bass.com for output measurements.

 

Realistically, if you could increase your budget to $1500, you would have better options for dual subs.

 

My top pick for your big room would be dual PSA XV15's for just over $1500 shipped.

At $1500 this would give you the most headroom of any other single or dual sub at this price outside of DIY, along with smoother response throughout your room.  Stretching your max budget by $300 would give you drastically higher output than your options available for $1200 and under, and would be wise to consider for your very large space.  My opinion, and I am normally pretty stingy.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #4 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 07:39 AM
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Dual PB-1000 at $949 or dual Rythmik LV12R at $1,200.

Just get a y-splitter if your AVR only has one sub out.
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post #5 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 08:05 AM
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I have dual Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus's and I love them. I think they are a great deal when on sale for $499 each shipped, so duals are $998 shipped which is what I paid for mine. However last time I looked the Plus's are $71 shipping so $549 + $71 = $620 so duals are $1240 shipped so for that price I would say the Rythmik is a better deal.

Your room is fairly large I would definitely buy duals and get the best you can get. Honestly I think you should look at dual SVS PB12NSD's for $1299 shipped. I really think that will be your best solution while staying close to your budget.

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post #6 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 08:30 AM
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Honestly I think you should look at dual SVS PB12NSD's for $1299 shipped. I really think that will be your best solution while staying close to your budget.
+1.


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post #7 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I noticed that many dual suggestions are of the same size sub. Is that norm or can one be bigger than the other.
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post #8 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 08:56 AM
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You can have mis-matched subs, but it takes more work to integrate them and you have to hope that the weaker sub won't hobble the more powerful one. The better and simpler solution is to get matching subs.


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post #9 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post



+1.

 



Got off with SVS and they agree dual PB12 NSD on outlet for the budget. Pair of PB200 if I can increase budget, but I want to upgrade LR speakers to larger towers.

Should I consider HSUs?
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post #10 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 08:58 AM
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It is best to have 2 identical subs. Because like the good old saying the chain is only as good as the weakest link applies. Now it can be done with different similar subs but it is harder to integrate them and get them to play well together. A more powerful and less powerful sub is not a good combo.

Shawn
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post #11 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 08:58 AM
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Got off with SVS and they agree dual PB12 NSD on outlet for the budget. ...

Should I consider HSUs?
Sure, consider HSUs. But get the dual PB12-NSDs. smile.gif They're powerful, well-rated subs, and a pair of them fit your budget.


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post #12 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post



+1.

 



Got off with SVS and they agree dual PB12 NSD on outlet for the budget. Pair of PB200 if I can increase budget, but I want to upgrade LR speakers to larger towers.

Should I consider HSUs?

Unless you are going to listen to a lot of 2.0 channel music ( so no subs playing, I don't think you need to upgrade your speakers.) Most of what towers add is in the bass area and that is what subs are for. Now I have towers and that's what I wanted but I could've gotten basically the same sound from bookshelf sized speakers.

Shawn
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post #13 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Although the room is large the area that is used for viewing is smaller than the whole. There is a bar area to the right of the viewing area. How much does this affect choice?
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post #14 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 10:11 AM
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Unless you place your subs nearfield (close to your primary listening position), you need to "pressurize" the entire open area, not just your viewing area, if you want to experience some sort of tactile sensation.


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post #15 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Would the newer PB1000s be as good or near the PB12 NSDs.  949 for dual PB1000s compared to 1299 for dual PB12 NSDs. 350 price difference.

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post #16 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 03:50 PM
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I'm selling dual VTF15h for $1425 shipped!
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post #17 of 27 Old 01-23-2014, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinemafreak1 View Post
 

Would the newer PB1000s be as good or near the PB12 NSDs.  949 for dual PB1000s compared to 1299 for dual PB12 NSDs. 350 price difference.

The PB 12 NSDs are more powerful and dig a little deeper (or at least are supposed to) than the PB-1000. IMO it is worth the $350 difference. Especially considering you will most likely have them for many years to come.

 

Personally I would not want to be sitting around wondering (for years) what if I got the larger PB12-NSDs instead. The way I see it, if you can swing the $350 now you will be happy you did for quite a while. If you don't, you may be wondering what you could have had. But that's just how I think and in this case it's not my money so it's easy for me to say that. 

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post #18 of 27 Old 01-24-2014, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Unless you are going to listen to a lot of 2.0 channel music ( so no subs playing, I don't think you need to upgrade your speakers.) Most of what towers add is in the bass area and that is what subs are for. Now I have towers and that's what I wanted but I could've gotten basically the same sound from bookshelf sized speakers.

+1 That works for me anyway. Nice books and a good center do a very good job.

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post #19 of 27 Old 01-24-2014, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinemafreak1 View Post
 

Would the newer PB1000s be as good or near the PB12 NSDs.  949 for dual PB1000s compared to 1299 for dual PB12 NSDs. 350 price difference.


Honestly, if at all feasible, I think you would be much better served stretching your max budget by $300 and getting dual PSA XV-15's.  You have an extremely large space to fill, and the XV15 has MUCH higher output than the PB12-NSD.  In this price range, the XV15 is the output leader, which you need to fill your space.

 

Go to Data-Bass.com and graph the XV15's max output compared to the PB12-NSD. 30-80Hz it is much higher.

 

As far as the pb1000 vs pb12, if the budget is that tight, grab the pb1000's, they have very strong 30-80Hz output, and really only give up output to the pb12 under 30Hz.  You now have one year to upgrade to dual pb2000's if you feel it is needed!

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AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #20 of 27 Old 01-24-2014, 08:45 AM
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Honestly, if at all feasible, I think you would be much better served stretching your max budget by $300 and getting dual PSA XV-15's.  You have an extremely large space to fill, and the XV15 has MUCH higher output than the PB12-NSD.  In this price range, the XV15 is the output leader, which you need to fill your space.

 

Go to Data-Bass.com and graph the XV15's max output compared to the PB12-NSD. 30-80Hz it is much higher.

 

As far as the pb1000 vs pb12, if the budget is that tight, grab the pb1000's, they have very strong 30-80Hz output, and really only give up output to the pb12 under 30Hz.  You now have one year to upgrade to dual pb2000's if you feel it is needed!

I agree, that's why I went that route. I was an hour or two away from ordering the PB-12NSD back in November and then I looked a little closer at the XV15 and realized that there was a decent power increase that could be had for a mere $40. I have to say, I'm glad I went with the XV15, it's a great sub. 

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post #21 of 27 Old 01-24-2014, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Honestly, if at all feasible, I think you would be much better served stretching your max budget by $300 and getting dual PSA XV-15's.  You have an extremely large space to fill, and the XV15 has MUCH higher output than the PB12-NSD.  In this price range, the XV15 is the output leader, which you need to fill your space.

 

Go to Data-Bass.com and graph the XV15's max output compared to the PB12-NSD. 30-80Hz it is much higher.

 

As far as the pb1000 vs pb12, if the budget is that tight, grab the pb1000's, they have very strong 30-80Hz output, and really only give up output to the pb12 under 30Hz.  You now have one year to upgrade to dual pb2000's if you feel it is needed!

I am new to Subs and have dificutly in reading the graphs.  What do I look for when comparing?  

 

I am pretty much down to 2 PB1000s-$950 or 1 PB2000 $799 (buy the other one next year) or 1 PSA XV-15 $799 (buy the other one next year).  With the wife wanting new bedroom set, dining room chairs,...blah blah blah (hoping subs drown out the blah blah blah) I have to keep budget tight at 1000.  I should be able swing another 1000 next year for another sub.  I eliminated the HSU since with shipping it cost way more than the above.

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post #22 of 27 Old 01-24-2014, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Cinemafreak1 View Post
 

I am new to Subs and have dificutly in reading the graphs.  What do I look for when comparing?  

 

I am pretty much down to 2 PB1000s-$950 or 1 PB2000 $799 (buy the other one next year) or 1 PSA XV-15 $799 (buy the other one next year).  With the wife wanting new bedroom set, dining room chairs,...blah blah blah (hoping subs drown out the blah blah blah) I have to keep budget tight at 1000.  I should be able swing another 1000 next year for another sub.  I eliminated the HSU since with shipping it cost way more than the above.


First, let me help you figure out how to use data-bass.com.  From the website, click on the systems tab.

Page down and click on the PB12-NSD(2012)

Click on measurements

Page down to the CEA2010 max burst graph

Click the drop down box arrow next to System measurement comparison

Page/arrow down and select the Power Sound Audio XV15

Click on the grey area on the side of your screen to deselect the comparison field

Arrow down to compare the graph.....you can mouse over the marked frequencies to compare output at each point.

 

Keep in mind the PB2000 is reported to be 2-2.5 dB higher than the PB12 from 25 Hz on up, but does not have any third party testing yet.  I suspect the XV 15 will maintain a solid output advantage from 40-70 Hz but perhaps be fairly close other than that(vs PB2000).

 

Now, as far as your three choices, I would recommend the two PB1000's now(which will be better for you than one PB2000), then trade in for dual PB2000 for $600 plus shipping in a year.

 

Alternatively, if you feel that you would rather ultimately end up with dual XV15's, buy one now and the other when you are ready.  And that's my two cents!

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AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #23 of 27 Old 01-24-2014, 08:11 PM
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First, let me help you figure out how to use data-bass.com.  From the website, click on the systems tab.

Page down and click on the PB12-NSD(2012)

Click on measurements

Page down to the CEA2010 max burst graph

Click the drop down box arrow next to System measurement comparison

Page/arrow down and select the Power Sound Audio XV15

Click on the grey area on the side of your screen to deselect the comparison field

Arrow down to compare the graph.....you can mouse over the marked frequencies to compare output at each point.

 

Keep in mind the PB2000 is reported to be 2-2.5 dB higher than the PB12 from 25 Hz on up, but does not have any third party testing yet.  I suspect the XV 15 will maintain a solid output advantage from 40-70 Hz but perhaps be fairly close other than that(vs PB2000).

 

Now, as far as your three choices, I would recommend the two PB1000's now(which will be better for you than one PB2000), then trade in for dual PB2000 for $600 plus shipping in a year.

 

Alternatively, if you feel that you would rather ultimately end up with dual XV15's, buy one now and the other when you are ready.  And that's my two cents!

 

Good info bear. Personally I took your alternative route and will be ordering my 2nd XV15 in the next 2 months or so. Tom told me that as long as someone orders their 2nd sub within 6 months after the first they will still get the discount. 

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post #24 of 27 Old 01-26-2014, 05:16 PM
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Good info bear. Personally I took your alternative route and will be ordering my 2nd XV15 in the next 2 months or so. Tom told me that as long as someone orders their 2nd sub within 6 months after the first they will still get the discount. 

Excellent.  I know you seem pretty happy with your single.  You will be in subwoofer heaven with duals :)


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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Excellent.  I know you seem pretty happy with your single.  You will be in subwoofer heaven with duals :)

That's my plan. I'm sure I'll be very happy but I still have to wait a bit. Patience. 

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post #26 of 27 Old 01-27-2014, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Good info bear. Personally I took your alternative route and will be ordering my 2nd XV15 in the next 2 months or so. Tom told me that as long as someone orders their 2nd sub within 6 months after the first they will still get the discount. 

Hop,

 

just email convo'd with Tom and he agrees that the a XV15 fits my needs and of course if I want the full scope of volume and base that I buy a second one.  

 

I see you love your XV15, what put you over the top to go with that instead of SVS or HSU?

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post #27 of 27 Old 01-27-2014, 07:03 PM
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The power of the XV15 and larger driver over the SVS PB12-NSD. Today I would have to look at the PB-2000 closely but that wasn't available in November.

 

The Longer warranty and free shipping offered by PSA won me over when considering HSU. Being that I'm in VA and HSU is in CA I knew shipping would be a killer clear across the nation especially if I ended up shipping it back. PSA is in Ohio, much cheaper to ship it back if I didn't like it.  

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