Who can hear the difference in Rythmik Servo sub(s)? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 01-28-2014, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Who can hear the difference in Rythmik Servo sub(s)? If you can, please describe. Please remember this is not about output or extension but about just sound quality. Thanks.
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post #2 of 10 Old 01-28-2014, 06:37 PM
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This comment is only for 2 channel Audio.

Compared to my sealed M&K, my Rythmik F15 sounded tighter and cleaner. When I had the M&K I would normally turn it off for simpler recording like vocals as it screws up the sound, With the Rythmiks its ON ALL THE TIME.
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post #3 of 10 Old 01-28-2014, 09:20 PM
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I have heard it, and I have seen others hear it in a level matched blind test between other subs. It is real.
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post #4 of 10 Old 01-28-2014, 10:16 PM
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Without doubting the effectiveness of the technology, how can anyone answer this honestly without the ability to turn on and turn off the servo feedback? Without that, you're just comparing brands and can't specifically say if it's related to "servo" or not.
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post #5 of 10 Old 01-28-2014, 10:33 PM
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The Rythmik subs do have very good sound quality. They've been in a couple of large meets and have universally done well. I don't know how much of that is servo related, but I don't think they give up any sound quality to any other sub I've heard. There are subs with more output - but the Rythmik subs are right up with the other top shelf contenders in sound quality. I'm a big fan of the Rythmik FV15HP I had a pair of Jamo D7 subs which were also servo subs, though not on the level of the Rythmik, they were also quite good for music sound quality in my opinion.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #6 of 10 Old 01-29-2014, 09:16 AM
 
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My problem to this question, I went from three Klipsch RW-12D style subs to a pair of Rythmik FV15HPs so although I'm quite smitten with the FV15HPs, I can't say it's the Direct Servo that's the reason. I can't recall where but during the research period, I came across several comparative comments and they said the bass was tighter and was much better sounding when it came to music. Regarding Direct Servo Technology, based on these anecdotal comments, I hung my purchasing hat of approval but I was still conflicted between the PSA XS30 and the Rythmik FV15HP.

Aside from input from other forum members, what put me over the top with the FV15HPs, was the first couple of posts in the ULF thread because of the comparative output, depth of extension and the delivered price for a pair of these output monsters. They don't go as deep as the top pricing tier of sealed subwoofers but two FV15HP will more than equal the output of any delivered single subwoofer priced the same as a delivered pair of FV15HPs at 12Hz.

Now back to the question of can you hear the difference above and beyond output and depth of extension, I don't know cause I got nothing to compare the FV15HPs to.

My question to the OP, is this a curiosity question or is this a question that a buying decision hangs on?
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post #7 of 10 Old 01-29-2014, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all for your inputs. I want articulate bass which Rythmik claims from their servo sub and want to know if anyone of you can tell. It might shows on paper and graph that servo is superior but at the end of the day, can my or your ears tell in a blind test if there was a switch to turn servo ON and OFF. Rythmik seems to have both great output and extension with the fv15hp, so adding that articulate bass, how can one NOT buying one or more. Why buy the Submersive that costs a whole lot more then? Is it output, extension, distortion level, sound quality? And since Ricci is unable to test it, we don't have anything to compare to. I read all of those GTG thread and the Submersive almost always comes out as top two but have not come across a direct comparison between Submersive and FV15hp. Rythmik is designed by Bryan D who has a degree in engineering, not sure if Mark is. Another thing is Salksound (a well respected speakers maker) elects to sell only Rythmik sub, does it tell us something? It would be cool if there is a blind test between a single Submersive and the FV15hp or even two against two. Thanks again for all the replies.
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post #8 of 10 Old 01-30-2014, 05:56 AM
 
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dbl post

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post #9 of 10 Old 01-30-2014, 06:39 AM
 
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A point to be taken regarding GTG, they're not presented in a price/performance fashion. For obvious mechanical reasons, one FV15HP isn't a fair fight but "TWO" FV15HPs, at a shipped price less than the price of a single Seaton, or Funk Audio, and now one has a "FAIR" price/performance comparison.

Taking beauty out of the equation, all one has left is a lights out, price/performance comparison. And down to the capability of our pair of FV15HPs in a 3300^3 room, open to adjacent rooms, I would be happy to put our two FV15HPs up against anything Funk or Seaton sell in singles. As to the articulation of music, we listen to Comcast provided music (compressed) in the background at -35dB MVC and it's clean, tight and compelling to listen to. How it compares against other systems, I can't say as moving our system to another location for comparison purposes, isn't practical.

Using XT32 and the both subwoofer's PEQ functions, with REW as my guide, here's a spectrogram and graphs of the output of our two FV15HPs in our untreated room. A little bloated at the lower octave but clean in the range of music.

The point, after purchasing a pair of subwoofers, we're all at the mercy of the acoustics in our room and how crazy we want to get to tame them to the level of an open plane or anechoic test. If you wish, you can use the below, real-world graphs to try and answer your question. I can't say if they're a good or bad example and I can only hope they help with your question.

At this time and point, I do not have plans to add a third FV15HP but although the door is closed, both my wife and I know, there's been no lock placed on this decision. For the time being, the measuring gear has been put away and presently, I do not have plans for further measurements.

(add 3dB to 6dB to FV15HP measurements for the synergistic addition of the second subwoofer)

(when one FV15HP was tested, it had too much distortion for a passing 10Hz measurement)

Ground Plane measurements:

...............................................10.0....12.5....16.0.....20.0.....25.0.....31.5.....40.0....50.0.....63.0.....80.0...100.0...125.0...Hz

Rythmik Audio, FV15HP(1 port)

..........................................................98.5...104.0...108.3...111.7...115.3...117.8...118.0...117.9...117.8...117.6...117.2...dB


Funk Audio, FW18.0(120 Volt)

............................................... 91.4...94.6.....98.6...103.4...108.2...114.5...119.4...120.8...121.2...121.2...121.0...121.0...dB

No Smoothing Applied:



One-Sixth Smoothing Applied:



Obviously, No Smoothing Applied:



Data-Bass, with one FV15HP, open plane testing:



Data-Bass, with one Funk Audio, 18.0, open plane testing:



The above is about as unvarnished as I can present the information......now you get to decide. tongue.gif


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post #10 of 10 Old 02-11-2014, 10:30 PM
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You will really like this reply! rolleyes.gif

Here's my story...

Generally, I purchase audio gear and it stays with me for quite some time. After 10 to 15 years, I get a desire to "see what has progressed over time" and I end up replacing equipment. As far as speakers are concerned...I am in my late 40's, so no, nothing really classic in my past.

I started out with my brother's hand-me-down Altec 8" 2 way speakers from the early 70's, and as a freshman in high school I purchased a pair of $500 EPI T/E 320 floorstanders that were very good. A few months after my purchase, they were reviewed quite favorably in a major magazine, so they MUST have been good, right?

From there I went to Klipsch Forte IIs and a pair of small Pinnacle PN-5s for a second set. they lasted until I went to...wait for it...everyones' favorites...Axiom M80s!!!!!!!

The M80s are my current speakers, along with the rest of my 7.2 surround setup. I am very happy with them, even though others here will find a million ways to cut them down.

Getting to subs...with the Pinnacles, I had a 12" Audiosource powered sub. It was really decent back then and mated well with the PN5s. When I purchased the Axioms, I paired them with a single SVS 16-46 PCi. This sub plays quite deep and is still a decent sub. For its time (circa 2003) it was awesome for the price.

I like all of my speakers, but decided that I wanted new subs to go into a new theater room I am building. The SVS will stay in the family room off the kitchen and for the basement theater I ordered a pair of Rythmik F25s for use with the Axioms.

getting to the OP's original question...

I do not have a working theater yet. As such, I decided to move the SVS into temporary storage and I installed ONE of the two F25s in the same spot that the SVS had occupied for the last several years. Because this system is simply a family room for watching TV and to provide casual music during other times, the Behringers are not being used to EQ anything, so I can definitely compare one sub to the other.

The comparison may not seem fair because the SVS is only a 12" driver and a 325 watt amp while the single F25 holds two 15" drivers and 800 watts of amplification. This really does not matter as much as you would think. The way I see it, it IS fair to compare these two and I will tell you why...

Neither sub is pushed to anywhere near its limits and the SVS really does dig quite deep, so bottom end is not as different as you might think. If I sit and listen to music (as I did today) at roughly 70dB, neither sub is pushed hard, neither sub is playing really deep (while the stuff I listen to has PLENTY of musical bass, I highly doubt that it goes much deeper than 30 Hz). The difference between the two can only be described as night and day.

I loved the SVS, it was killer compared to a lot of more expensive subs of the time. It plays quite deep and is fairly musical. Then the F25 showed up. Bass notes became clearer. The pluck of a bass guitar was not simply more realistic, but it now has an air to it. This new found "presence" can only be described as more revealing. It is like the difference between hearing a kick drum on a mid-fi system with decent speakers and hearing the same exact song from the front row of a live concert. The F25 is just plain more articulate.

OK, so this is an F25 vs a decade old SVS that cost about half of what the Rythmik did and has a single 12" driver vs dual 15 inchers. This is not about max SPL, this is about the sound at my normal listening levels in my everyday family room. Neither sub was pushed. I could also mention that I have heard other subs that cost MUCH more than the F25. They were in different environments, but in the end, they did NOT sound as tight or as musical as my F25 does.

So...I was long winded and not to the point and I am goofy enough to list my other speakers as Axioms (and coming from Klipsch Forte IIs besides!!), but I will tell you that I wanted a Submersive and decided on a pair of F25s instead and I am glad I made this decision. While I can't say that the servo makes the F25 sound better than the SVS, I can tell you that at modest listening levels it is simply much cleaner. I can also tell you that other expensive subs that I have auditioned did not seem to be as clean or articulate either. Just like the GTGs, where people commented on how good the Rythmiks sound, my experiences with my F25 and what I have heard from other subwoofers leads me to the same conclusion. The Rythmik F25 sounds very clean. Cleaner and more articulate than other subs I have listened to. smile.gif
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