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post #1 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Starting to build HT in basement. Basement is unfinished at this time with approx 9000 cubic ft. So far, I have a Harman Kardon 1710, Infinity Primus 363 floorstanding. Looking to add a sub and I've done some readings in the forum lately. I know there are lot of choices depending on budget. Budget wise I would like like to keep it below $400. Currently looking at the Dayton subs, specifically Dayton sub 1200 and 1500 and the Reaction Audio bps 12. I know these subs aren't going to cut it for such a big area and I fully understand that. Just need something for the occasion movies and music. Which would be better, 2 dayton sub 1200, 1 dayton sub 1500 (likely adding one in the future if this route) or the reaction audio bps 12. I know there isn't any reviews on the bps 12, but looks interesting
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post #2 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 08:53 AM
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9,000 cu.ft. calls for at least a couple of Rythmik FV15HPs or HSU VTF-15Hs. But since you're maxing out at $400, get dual SUB-1200s and call it a day. smile.gif
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post #3 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 08:54 AM
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9000 cu. ft that is a huge space to fill with a nothing budget.

Reaction Audio is my first thought though they are extremely new and untested.

I like the idea of dual subwoofers for your room, but if you can buy one $400 subwoofer now and another $400 subwoofer later you would be better off in the long run and be saving yourself some money too.

I am not sure if you can get this for a lower price but I know this company does work with people on the pricing.
Premier Acoustic PA-150, make an offer of $350. Here is a review of the PA-150. http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=48

Lava LSP12 is currently on sale for $170 shipped so two of those would be a decent buy as well.
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post #4 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

9,000 cu.ft. calls for at least a couple of Rythmik FV15HPs or HSU VTF-15Hs. But since you're maxing out at $400, get dual SUB-1200s and call it a day. smile.gif

+1 but for 400.00 dollar budget I would go for Dual Sub1500.00's.
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post #5 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I do realize it will take a lot of bass to fill such a big room. Eventually I plan to close off a portion of the basement 20x14x9 (2520 cu ft). I would love to get the more expensive subs, but at this point in my life it's not reasonable.

I also looked at the Lava LSP12 as well. How does the Lava compared to Dayton sub1200 or sub1500? Would 3 sub 1200 be "better" than 2 sub 1500s?
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Originally Posted by tlee82 View Post

I do realize it will take a lot of bass to fill such a big room. Eventually I plan to close off a portion of the basement 20x14x9 (2520 cu ft). I would love to get the more expensive subs, but at this point in my life it's not reasonable.

Serious thought. Then don't finish off the basement, buy right on the subwoofers and finish the basement when you can.
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post #7 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlee82 View Post

I do realize it will take a lot of bass to fill such a big room. Eventually I plan to close off a portion of the basement 20x14x9 (2520 cu ft). I would love to get the more expensive subs, but at this point in my life it's not reasonable.

I also looked at the Lava LSP12 as well. How does the Lava compared to Dayton sub1200 or sub1500? Would 3 sub 1200 be "better" than 2 sub 1500s?
Well they are probably on the same level I might side that that Lava LSP12 as it has a more powerful amp. Apparently Lava is offering AVS member an additional 15% off their $170 if you email them your username to this forum. I wasn't sure if they were still running that promotion but people are saying they are offering it. That makes the Lava a hands down bargin right now.

I really suggest against over spending on your compromise

Spending 400 on 2 or 3 budget subwoofers can get you the performance of just buying one PA-150. Their street value is $350 so offer that price and you will be happy for the time being. The Premier Acoustic PA-150 is a power house of output for $350 its an amazing subwoofer to start your system out.

Honestly making these compromises seem smart at the time but if I look at the total money I spent to improve my set-up in the past I would have saved a substantial amount by spending my money if I bought the good stuff from the beginning. What I am saying is you are better saving your money for alittle till you can get something to fill your room
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post #8 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Well they are probably on the same level I might side that that Lava LSP12 as it has a more powerful amp. Apparently Lava is offering AVS member an additional 15% off their $170 if you email them your username to this forum. I wasn't sure if they were still running that promotion but people are saying they are offering it. That makes the Lava a hands down bargin right now.

I really suggest against over spending on your compromise

Spending 400 on 2 or 3 budget subwoofers can get you the performance of just buying one PA-150. Their street value is $350 so offer that price and you will be happy for the time being. The Premier Acoustic PA-150 is a power house of output for $350 its an amazing subwoofer to start your system out.

Honestly making these compromises seem smart at the time but if I look at the total money I spent to improve my set-up in the past I would have saved a substantial amount by spending my money if I bought the good stuff from the beginning. What I am saying is you are better saving your money for alittle till you can get something to fill your room

You make good points. I do have the budget to get a good sub, just not sure if it's worth the investment reason why I'm looking at the more budget subs. Hobbies are expensive and would like to keep it at a minimum.
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post #9 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 12:14 PM
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I do have the budget to get a good sub, just not sure if it's worth the investment ...
If you're interested in good bass (sound, output, extension) in your set-up, yes, it's worth the investment.
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post #10 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, guess I have to suck it up and pick a good sub. What is the difference between sealed and ported subs? I've been looking at the SVS 1000s, Reaction Audio sps 1200 mainly. I know there haven't been any reviews on the bps 1200, but looks interesting. Would like to stay under $500 max. Don't think my other half can go any further
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post #11 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

If you're interested in good bass (sound, output, extension) in your set-up, yes, it's worth the investment.

Took a look at your HT system and looks great. How much did you spend?
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post #12 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tlee82 View Post

Ok, guess I have to suck it up and pick a good sub. What is the difference between sealed and ported subs? I've been looking at the SVS 1000s, Reaction Audio sps 1200 mainly. I know there haven't been any reviews on the bps 1200, but looks interesting. Would like to stay under $500 max. Don't think my other half can go any further
Still for your room 9000 cu. ft. room and a Max budget of $500 I recommend the Premier Acoustic PA-150 Offer $350 and hope they take that deal. This subwoofer while it can't go deep is have plenty of output above 30hz to make most people extremely happy

The SVS is a great subwoofer but its ment for room no larger than a 1/3 of your current room. I am sure as people experience the Reaction Audio Subwoofer they will have the same opinion
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post #13 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 12:43 PM
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Ok, guess I have to suck it up and pick a good sub. What is the difference between sealed and ported subs?

A ported sub will hold about a 10db advantage at it's tuning point over the sealed sub. Seeing as you are already going to be way under gunned in the bass department, I'd suggest looking at ported only.

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post #14 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 12:45 PM
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Thanks! smile.gif

Not sure about the exact value of the entire set-up, but there have been a lot of upgrades to get to where it currently is, with each upgrade involving a monetary loss on the item being sold and replaced.

Example: The current subs are ~$1,800 CDN, but they're an upgrade from a single SVS PB12-NSD, which was an updgrade from a single SVS PB10-NSD, which was an upgrade from a DefTech ProSub 200TL.
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post #15 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tlee82 View Post

I do realize it will take a lot of bass to fill such a big room. Eventually I plan to close off a portion of the basement 20x14x9 (2520 cu ft). I would love to get the more expensive subs, but at this point in my life it's not reasonable.

I also looked at the Lava LSP12 as well. How does the Lava compared to Dayton sub1200 or sub1500? Would 3 sub 1200 be "better" than 2 sub 1500s?

In a room that size you will need all the displacement you can get. I have 3 PSA XV-15's in a 2400^3 room and the bass is pretty intense. However I have used a multitude of budget subs for our Touch Tunes Jukeboxes(I am in the coin-op business), ranging from the polk psw505, psw202, paradigm pdr10, kenwood servo 10, jbl es250, and dayton sub1200. Imo the sub1200 is pretty damn good for its price, better then every other budget sub I have tried or heard. It does everything good, just not great...and it will not make any bad noises when pushed hard. I think a pair of sub1500's would be a solid budget solution. Might not have the mid bass of the PA150 but it will have more below 30hz. The PA150 has so much midbass because its tuned around 40-45hz.
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post #16 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm really new to this HT thing. What is the difference between mid and low bass? How will either affect movies or music?
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post #17 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 02:58 PM
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I'm really new to this HT thing. What is the difference between mid and low bass? How will either affect movies or music?

It does not take as much to make a sub play loud above 40hz. So for that very reason most commercial(store bought) subwoofers are not tuned very low so they can maximize 40-80hz output. 40-80hz is the majority of bass source content, however there is quite a bit of 20-40hz content in several blu ray tracks. That being said It cost alot more money to build a sub that can play clean from 20-80hz. And it cost even more money to have a sub that can handle 5-80hz. Keep in mind less then 10% of all source content ever digs below 15hz, and only the extreme enthusiast put up the coin amd effort it takes to build a reference capable susb system from 5-80hz.

In my opinion one getting into HT should atleast have a sub that when called upon can handle everything from 15-80hz. The problem with that is its going to take about a 800.00 sub minimum to get there....and in a room your size it will actually take about 2400.00 (3-800.00 subs or 2 -1200.00 subs) worth of subwoofage to get a reference capable system from 20-80hz.

The problem is you have a budget of 400.00. So imo the only subwoofer that can come within a mile of reaching those goals is 2 sub1500's. They should give you good output from 24-80hz.

Another option is build your own, which can offer some serious performamce for little investment. You could achieve what I posted above with 2 18" dayton ultimax drivers, 2 pre made flatpacks, and a behringer inuke 3000 dsp amp, all for around 1000-1200.00. Do I have your head spinning yet??
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post #18 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 03:10 PM
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I'm really new to this HT thing. What is the difference between mid and low bass? How will either affect movies or music?
Midbass is generally considered 80-320Hz. Sub bass is below 20Hz to 40Hz, bass is 40-80Hz. These definitions come from the low frequency extension points that midbass drivers, woofers and sub woofer drivers are capable of reaching to.
Most bookshelf speakers are loaded with midbass drivers capable of delivering flat response to at least 80Hz. Tower speakers are usually loaded with woofers capable of flat response to at least 40Hz, subwoofers should be capable of flat response to at least 30Hz. But this isn't carved in stone.
As for music versus HT, woofers are adequate for music, but low frequency effects on movie tracks go an octave or more lower than music, so subs are a necessity if you want to get the full content of HT. You might run a woofer loaded speaker alone, but you usually wouldn't run a midbass driver loaded cab alone.

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post #19 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 04:04 PM
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I'm really new to this HT thing. What is the difference between mid and low bass? How will either affect movies or music?


Here you go. Add in the so called ULF bass for frequencies below 20 Hz.


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post #20 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 04:23 PM
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If you want to get bass below 30hz with any real force you better be prepared to spend $1,000-$1,500 on subwoofers.

So now that you are back to reality I will say it again again and again. For 9000 cu. ft youe best and only real option is the PA-150:rolleyes:

Comeback after you make your smaller HT room then we can talk about getting bass below 30hz
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post #21 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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It does not take as much to make a sub play loud above 40hz. So for that very reason most commercial(store bought) subwoofers are not tuned very low so they can maximize 40-80hz output. 40-80hz is the majority of bass source content, however there is quite a bit of 20-40hz content in several blu ray tracks. That being said It cost alot more money to build a sub that can play clean from 20-80hz. And it cost even more money to have a sub that can handle 5-80hz. Keep in mind less then 10% of all source content ever digs below 15hz, and only the extreme enthusiast put up the coin amd effort it takes to build a reference capable susb system from 5-80hz.

In my opinion one getting into HT should atleast have a sub that when called upon can handle everything from 15-80hz. The problem with that is its going to take about a 800.00 sub minimum to get there....and in a room your size it will actually take about 2400.00 (3-800.00 subs or 2 -1200.00 subs) worth of subwoofage to get a reference capable system from 20-80hz.

The problem is you have a budget of 400.00. So imo the only subwoofer that can come within a mile of reaching those goals is 2 sub1500's. They should give you good output from 24-80hz.

Another option is build your own, which can offer some serious performamce for little investment. You could achieve what I posted above with 2 18" dayton ultimax drivers, 2 pre made flatpacks, and a behringer inuke 3000 dsp amp, all for around 1000-1200.00. Do I have your head spinning yet??

That was a lot of information to take in, but very informative. As of now I've narrowed down to three options:
1. 2 sub1500's
2. 1 PA-150
3. DIY Ultimax 15 or 18
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post #22 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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If you want to get bass below 30hz with any real force you better be prepared to spend $1,000-$1,500 on subwoofers.

So now that you are back to reality I will say it again again and again. For 9000 cu. ft youe best and only real option is the PA-150:rolleyes:

Comeback after you make your smaller HT room then we can talk about getting bass below 30hz

How would the PA-150 compared to the Ultimax 15"?
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post #23 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 04:56 PM
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That was a lot of information to take in, but very informative. As of now I've narrowed down to three options:
1. 2 sub1500's
2. 1 PA-150
3. DIY Ultimax 15 or 18

#3 would be my choice...however it would need to be ported and you are looking at a very large sub. Probably in the 8-10cfu range.
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post #24 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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#3 would be my choice...however it would need to be ported and you are looking at a very large sub. Probably in the 8-10cfu range.

Would you recommend the Martysub? I'm not sure if that is ported or not from the few pictures I've seen?
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post #25 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 05:06 PM
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Would you recommend the Martysub? I'm not sure if that is ported or not from the few pictures I've seen?

Yes its ported and should work well.
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post #26 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 05:34 PM
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How would the PA-150 compared to the Ultimax 15"?
Louder and cheaper over all The Ultimax is a sealed enclousure.

If you are going DIY do you have eperience building boxes or are you going with an off the shelf kit?
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post #27 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Louder and cheaper over all The Ultimax is a sealed enclousure.

If you are going DIY do you have eperience building boxes or are you going with an off the shelf kit?

I don't have any experience building boxes, but could manage if need be. Otherwise I plan on off the shelf kit which would probably cost as much. If I can find the PA-150 for a good price, I may settle on that. Although, the price has been $499 and no lower. I do have a 15% code which will bring it down to $425. Good price? I guess what I'm looking at right now is, what is the best I can do with $400? I understand I have a large area, but at this time I don't think I will be too concerned. I have a old Sony HTIB w/ a 50 watt sub upstair family room and listen music on a old Logitech z4 while in the basement. So far I've been content
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post #28 of 28 Old 02-06-2014, 07:43 PM
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I don't have any experience building boxes, but could manage if need be. Otherwise I plan on off the shelf kit which would probably cost as much. If I can find the PA-150 for a good price, I may settle on that. Although, the price has been $499 and no lower. I do have a 15% code which will bring it down to $425. Good price? I guess what I'm looking at right now is, what is the best I can do with $400? I understand I have a large area, but at this time I don't think I will be too concerned. I have a old Sony HTIB w/ a 50 watt sub upstair family room and listen music on a old Logitech z4 while in the basement. So far I've been content
Offer them $350 and see if they take that offer. That is what most people say is the going rate for the PA-150 from that website
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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Dayton Audio Sub 1200 12 120 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Dayton Audio Sub 1500 15 150 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Harman Kardon Avr 1710 7 2 Channel 100 Watt Network Connected Audio Video Receiver , Infinity Primus P363 Three Way Dual Infinity Floor Standing Speaker , Fv15hp Subwoofer , Hsu Vtf 15h Subwoofer , Premier Acoustic Pa 150 , Lava Subs 12 250 Watt Home Theater Powered Subwoofer , Polk Audio Psw505 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer Single Black , Svs , Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Xv15
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