2 Svs PB12 PLUS or 2 Rythmik FV15HP - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 109 Old 02-10-2014, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Here is a short video which probably explain harmonic distortion a bit more clearly than Josh's write up:

Thanks for sharing!!
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post #92 of 109 Old 02-10-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

THX specifies reference level to be 85db for the 5/7 channels and 95db for the LFE channel, and to have 20db headroom for dynamic peaks. What Luke was referring to was that on a bass managed system, redirected bass can increase the max peak to 121/123 db with the bass from the 5/7 channels. That would be if all channels (all satellites and LFE) simultaneously had peak bass recorded in them, which is rare if ever.

The THX spec already includes headroom for peaks, and reference level does not mean you are cruising along at a constant 105/115db or even a constant 85/95db as material is frequently mixed at even lower volumes in movie soundtracks.

Here is a nice link that helps explain this a bit more.

In regards to squashed dynamics with consumer grade gear, many other components are going to give up the ghost long before a decent sub (such as those discussed here). For those looking to up the ante with dedicated rooms, high sensitivity/powered speakers, and/or desiring to run some heavy house curve or very hot LFE channel (especially those trying to do so with just one sub), better options exist than the PB12/PB2000/XV15 etc.

Ok thanks for clearing that up...so 105/115 is with the peaks factored in. My apologies to Bee I guess I did not understand his post.

I agree that there are better options then the subs you mentioned hince why I suggested dual passive Captivator 1000's a couple pages back smile.gif. I was just trying to make a point in regards to the term "linear" that SVS owners throw around. Jim Wilson has shared his opinion in regards to that as well which can found over at HT shack. Again I am not knocking SVS, just pointing out that the "Ultra linear response" does not necessarily mean better. The best option is to buy enough subwoofage to handle the end users goals with ample headroom.
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post #93 of 109 Old 02-10-2014, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post

THX specifies reference level to be 85db for the 5/7 channels and 95db for the LFE channel, and to have 20db headroom for dynamic peaks. What Luke was referring to was that on a bass managed system, redirected bass can increase the max peak to 121/123 db with the bass from the 5/7 channels. That would be if all channels (all satellites and LFE) simultaneously had peak bass recorded in them, which is rare if ever.

The THX spec already includes headroom for peaks, and reference level does not mean you are cruising along at a constant 105/115db or even a constant 85/95db as material is frequently mixed at even lower volumes in movie soundtracks.

Here is a nice link that helps explain this a bit more.

In regards to squashed dynamics with consumer grade gear, many other components are going to give up the ghost long before a decent sub (such as those discussed here). For those looking to up the ante with dedicated rooms, high sensitivity/powered speakers, and/or desiring to run some heavy house curve or very hot LFE channel (especially those trying to do so with just one sub), better options exist than the PB12/PB2000/XV15 etc.

This is a great post. There's a big difference between making enough noise to make the spl meter swing to "reference level" and listening to a system that can really actually do it without breaking a sweat. Some of that noise is just that. Distortion is sound, and your spl meter doesn't know the difference between that and clean sound. A couple typical ID subs aren't going to maintain anything close their own FR measured at lower levels. Plus most peoples speakers are already compressing below 100db. Unless the full spectrum of the soundtrack is amplified to the "reference" value, can we honestly claim that as reference?

Bosso has a method of capturing the output data and overlaying it on the signal data that, IMO, is the only way to know if you are reproducing the full spectrum.

That said, other than db bench racing, it doesn't really matter. Once people start actually watching movies instead of 3 minute clips and rushing back to the computer to post about it, loud enough is rarely "reference". Just about everyone here has an enjoyable system, and they become even more enjoyable if the word reference isn't going through your head 5 times a day. smile.gif
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post #94 of 109 Old 02-10-2014, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

This is a great post. There's a big difference between making enough noise to make the spl meter swing to "reference level" and listening to a system that can really actually do it without breaking a sweat. Some of that noise is just that. Distortion is sound, and your spl meter doesn't know the difference between that and clean sound. A couple typical ID subs aren't going to maintain anything close their own FR measured at lower levels. Plus most peoples speakers are already compressing below 100db. Unless the full spectrum of the soundtrack is amplified to the "reference" value, can we honestly claim that as reference?

Bosso has a method of capturing the output data and overlaying it on the signal data that, IMO, is the only way to know if you are reproducing the full spectrum.

That said, other than db bench racing, it doesn't really matter. Once people start actually watching movies instead of 3 minute clips and rushing back to the computer to post about it, loud enough is rarely "reference". Just about everyone here has an enjoyable system, and they become even more enjoyable if the word reference isn't going through your head 5 times a day. smile.gif

I agree...I also understand my subs are not going to maintain a flat response at reference. However 3 of them does a pretty phenominal job in my room. According to the ULF thread I have a reference capable system to 16hz. That being said I do not think it is capable of that with very low thd. Im guessing below 25hz 2nd order is probably ramping up a bit but honestly I can not hear it with all speakers a go. As for my mains, I am powering my Polk RTI- A7's with a Adcom GFA-555II. From what my ears tell me, they play reference cleanly. 90db efficiency with 265 watts of ultra clean power = a 114 db of clean output. All this aside I very seldom can stand to listen at reference for a 2hr period. Normally I will watch a blu ray -15db from reference, so at those levels my system is not breaking a sweat. I am sure this is probably the case for most around here. smile.gif
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post #95 of 109 Old 02-10-2014, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I agree...I also understand my subs are not going to maintain a flat response at reference. However 3 of them does a pretty phenominal job in my room. According to the ULF thread I have a reference capable system to 16hz. That being said I do not think it is capable of that with very low thd. Im guessing below 25hz 2nd order is probably ramping up a bit but honestly I can not hear it with all speakers a go. As for my mains, I am powering my Polk RTI- A7's with a Adcom GFA-555II. From what my ears tell me, they play reference cleanly. 90db efficiency with 265 watts of ultra clean power = a 114 db of clean output. All this aside I very seldom can stand to listen at reference for a 2hr period. Normally I will watch a blu ray -15db from reference, so at those levels my system is not breaking a sweat. I am sure this is probably the case for most around here. smile.gif

Me too. The amount of posting/arguing about reference around here is definitely disproportionate to the amount of listening to it. wink.gif

BTW that Adcom is a nice, honest piece of equipment.
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post #96 of 109 Old 02-10-2014, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Tack View Post

Me too. The amount of posting/arguing about reference around here is definitely disproportionate to the amount of listening to it. wink.gif

BTW that Adcom is a nice, honest piece of equipment.

Thanks it was a hand me down from my grandfather. smile.gif
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post #97 of 109 Old 02-10-2014, 04:01 PM
 
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Unless your name is Richard Vandersteen, the CEA2010 measurements are all you need for distortion comparison purposes. Instead of twisting the data bass graphs to suit your latest fanboy fetish, actually read the know how tab....
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post #98 of 109 Old 02-10-2014, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post

Unless your name is Richard Vandersteen, the CEA2010 measurements are all you need for distortion comparison purposes. Instead of twisting the data bass graphs to suit your latest fanboy fetish, actually read the know how tab....

You been drinkin?
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post #99 of 109 Old 02-11-2014, 05:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay,,, lets make something like a vote & see the final resulte :

2 x SVS PB12 PLUS or 2 x Rythmik FV15HP.

!!!!!!!!!
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post #100 of 109 Old 02-11-2014, 05:15 AM
 
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Just saying, after 99 posts, everybody has weighted in. Now you get the privilege of deciding which one works the best for you, based on what works for you.

(and no, i'm not being cute, flip or otherwise)

Because you're the final arbiter.
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post #101 of 109 Old 02-11-2014, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Just saying, after 99 posts, everybody has weighted in. Now you get the privilege of deciding which one works the best for you, based on what works for you.

(and no, i'm not being cute, flip or otherwise)

Because you're the final arbiter.

Okay, ur tendencey to Rythmik FV15HP.

hehehehe
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post #102 of 109 Old 02-11-2014, 05:42 AM
 
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...biggrin.gif
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Originally Posted by titan sheft 57 View Post

Okay, ur tendencey to Rythmik FV15HP.

hehehehe

I'm no longer allowed to say who or what I purchased, nor am I allowed to say how deep they extend but on the rare occasion, when nobody thinks I'm paying attention, I haven't been stopped from posting unmentioned freeware room measuring graphs.

...biggrin.gif
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post #103 of 109 Old 02-11-2014, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titan sheft 57 View Post

Okay,,, lets make something like a vote & see the final resulte :

2 x SVS PB12 PLUS or 2 x Rythmik FV15HP.

!!!!!!!!!


I think the ball is in your court on this one, they are both amongst the best subs in their price range.  I am glad I am not the one making this decision.  The Rythmik is obviously the output leader in its price class, but I believe the SVS has an edge in a few areas other than max output.  If it were my money I would have to in home audition them.  If asthetics are important and you prefer the piano finish, the SVS is $1325/each shipped vs just over 1700 for the Rythmik in piano, minus their discount for duals.

 

Edit:  I just calculated your room size from your first post.  I would consider heavily weighing max output in your decision due to your 7,000 cu. ft. room.  So my vote is Rythmik, or upgrade to the PB13 Ultra.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #104 of 109 Old 02-11-2014, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

...biggrin.gif
I'm no longer allowed to say who or what I purchased, nor am I allowed to say how deep they extend but on the rare occasion, when nobody thinks I'm paying attention, I haven't been stopped from posting unmentioned freeware room measuring graphs.

...biggrin.gif
Why aren't you allowed to say what you purchased or how deep they extend? Then again I thought everyone already knew you were running two Rythmik FV15HP's and can reach 11hz at reference. smile.gif

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post #105 of 109 Old 02-11-2014, 07:14 AM
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Hey Bee, I just realized last night, checking on your setup, how nice your AVR and new CC are......VERY nice..congrats on the recent upgrade.  You have more in your AVR than I have in my entire system :(  :mad:   :)

 

That center is ginormous.  My wife almost cried when I plopped my HC1.2 on the mantle.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #106 of 109 Old 02-11-2014, 07:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cchunter View Post

Then again I thought everyone already knew you were running two Rythmik FV15HP's and can reach 11hz at reference. smile.gif

Well, I guess we can safely say, that pretty much buries any hope of being enigmatic.

...tongue.gif

-
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post #107 of 109 Old 02-11-2014, 07:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Hey Bee, I just realized last night, checking on your setup, how nice your AVR and new CC are......VERY nice..congrats on the recent upgrade.

...biggrin.gif...Thanks!

Quote:
That center is ginormous.  My wife almost cried when I plopped my HC1.2 on the mantle.

I cheated and hid it under the television. It does double duty as a television stand....tongue.gif...biggrin.gif

(unless winning a lottery payout, after twenty-one years of effort, this is about as close as I will come to my dream system)

-
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post #108 of 109 Old 02-11-2014, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Hey Bee, I just realized last night, checking on your setup, how nice your AVR and new CC are......VERY nice..congrats on the recent upgrade.  You have more in your AVR than I have in my entire system frown.gif   mad.gif    smile.gif

That center is ginormous.  My wife almost cried when I plopped my HC1.2 on the mantle.

Guess you haven't seen Kef 204/c

http://www.avforums.com/attachments/img_0183-jpg.391229/

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

Jealous of my speakers?

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post #109 of 109 Old 02-11-2014, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post


Guess you haven't seen Kef 204/c

http://www.avforums.com/attachments/img_0183-jpg.391229/

Yeah but that looks really nice...my center does look a bit....non-asthetic sitting atop the fireplace mantle with the tv mounted on the wall above it.  In fact, I think a larger center like yours or Beeman's mike actually look nicer in some ways as the width would match the tv better.  Not happening anytime soon though, LRC was a new upgrade just a few months ago.  Only thing left in the home theater for this year is surrounds...leaning towards the $120 fluance bipoles.....yeah im that cheap :cool: 

 

Very nice looking setup by the way.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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