How do DIY subwoofers compare to pre-maid? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been putting together my little home theater setup and I am now down to the last piece to finish it off, a sub-woofer.  While going over reviews of subs on amazon various other sites on Google when I came across a few threads describing budget DIY subs that caught my interest.  There have been quite a few reviews comparing DIY to DIY subs and pre-maid to pre-maid subs but I haven't see much in the way of comparing a pre-maid setup with a DIY setup.  

 

I am hoping to keep the budget in the $300-$400.  So I am currently considering the following options:

A) Klipsch Sub-12HG Synergy Series.  300 watt, currently on amazon for $300 

B) Dayton Audio subwoofer kit consisting of a 10" Titanic MKIII sub, SA240 amplifier, prebuilt sealed enclosure, speaker terminals, etc.  It's an entire DIY kit with everything needed to put it together for $400 at parts-express.com, the kit isn't in stock right now but all the individual parts appear to be.

 

Does anyone have any idea how these two options would compare?  Or possibly have a third option in mind for my $300-$400 budget?

 

 

The use will be for both movies and music.  The rest of my setup is as follows:

Room: 14' x 17'

TV: Samsung UN55F6300 55" LED

Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR626 7.2

Front Speakers: Klipsch SF-2's

Center: Klipsch SC-1

Surround: Klipsch SS-5's

 

As you can see, my current setup is Klipsch so I am partial to the Sub-12HG option but the DIY option also appeals to me for sure.  

 

Thanks in advance for any advice or opinions.

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post #2 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 07:11 AM
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Generally you can get more boom for the buck with a DIY. Just depends how comfortable you are with woodworking.
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post #3 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 08:06 AM
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If you drop a post over in the DIY forum you'll get a bunch of advice.

Generally with a "retail" sub you are paying for R&D, advertising, workmans comp, overhead, etc etc. With DIY you obviously don't have this markup so cost to performance ratio is much better. You don't even have to be that great at woodworking nowadays as Erich offers flatpacks for the most popular drivers; it's as simple as assemble, glue, and go.

It would be nice to know a little more about what you are trying to accomplish; but if it were me I'd go with a Stereo Integrity 15 or 18" driver in a box ported to about 20hz powered by an Inuke 1000DSP. That will put you a hair over budget at around 500.00 bucks; but that will sleigh a lot of other offerings around that price area; including the Klipsch. The DSP will also give you a nice handle on your FR which is going to go a long way in you enjoying how your sub sounds.

My last "retail" sub was an SVS PB12/2 Ultra. The sub cost me $2,500 back in the mid 2,000's. A year ago I built a DIY setup consisting 8 SI 18's powered by dual EP4000's and an Inuke 3000. That entire setup cost me about two hundred bucks more than my SVS; and well let's just say it's not even close.

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post #4 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 08:19 AM
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There's not going to be a big enough difference in performance on the 2 things you listed to make DiY worth it.

If you are looking for massive performance and cant afford to spend 5 grand on subs, then yes- DIY is the way to go for sure!
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post #5 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

There's not going to be a big enough difference in performance on the 2 things you listed to make DiY worth it.

If you are looking for massive performance and cant afford to spend 5 grand on subs, then yes- DIY is the way to go for sure!

I don't know about that. I've replaced a couple friends single "retail" subs with single DIY subs that were a definite improvement over what they had. You don't have to spend thousands to realize the benefit of DIY. Besides, building something yourself gives you some nice satisfaction.
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post #6 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 08:25 AM
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Even if you buy a retail sub there are better out there than the Klipsch around that price.

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post #7 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 08:35 AM
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I don't know anything about DIY other than that for the money you get better everything cuz you are doing the work.

However for pre-made subs forget about the Klipsch. If you can go with an ID Internet Direct sub company that is how you get the best bang for your buck with a pre-made sub. There is a new ID sub company that has a dual opposed 12" sealed sub with a 200 rms amp for $400 its Reaction Audio BPS212. Now if you can spend $500 your best bet is the SVS PB-1000.

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post #8 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the quick replies and information guys.  

 

I have read a bit more into the DIY realm and it does sound like an appealing project and possibly a new hobby that I definitely want to look into more.

 

There is a wealth of knowledge on the topic on these forums.  You all will definitely be a great resource for some new to the topic like myself.

 

My dad was a carpenter and has a garage full of wood working tools so it will be nice to put some of them to use. 

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post #9 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 08:54 AM
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Thanks for all the quick replies and information guys.  

I have read a bit more into the DIY realm and it does sound like an appealing project and possibly a new hobby that I definitely want to look into more.

There is a wealth of knowledge on the topic on these forums.  You all will definitely be a great resource for some new to the topic like myself.

My dad was a carpenter and has a garage full of wood working tools so it will be nice to put some of them to use. 

Sounds like you're the perfect candidate for a DIY project. smile.gif

BTW: Welcome to the forum.
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post #10 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 10:07 AM
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In my experience DIY provides more value. By that I mean better performance at each price level. As an example, a commercially made 12" sealed sub of good sound quality costs about $500. My 15" sealed sub provides better performance and cost $460 and 1/2 a day's hobby work. DIY is definitely a good way to go with those that are handy and have some woodworking tools.
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post #11 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

I don't know about that. I've replaced a couple friends single "retail" subs with single DIY subs that were a definite improvement over what they had. You don't have to spend thousands to realize the benefit of DIY. Besides, building something yourself gives you some nice satisfaction.

I don't think in the 2 he's comparing there will be a huge difference. In the 300-500 dollar range you could build an f20 or a SI 18 and decimate either of the 2 the OP has in mind.
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post #12 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 11:24 AM
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"Pre-made", "pre-maid" has interesting connotations for the household staff...

Be aware DIY is more than building the box. It has to be the right box, right-sized, properly braced and filled (may be no fill), with the right-size holes (if any), configured properly for the driver and amp you are using. As others have said, there is a wealth of info in the DIY sub-forum. There are also kits you can get from companies like Rythmik that have all the math done so you just build the box to spec. That's what I would suggest for a first-time project like this.

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post #13 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 11:31 AM
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I have gone with the DIY route as well... I built a 12" Dayton RSS315HF and a 15" Dayton RSS390HO in sealed cabinets... It pointed out one BIG fact... Size alone should not be considered. You have to check the specs on the drivers. The 12" sub goes lower and is flatter than the 15" sub because the 12" sub had better specs. Where the 15" sub outperformed the 12" sub was in maximum output. In retrospect, I should have gone with the 15" RSS390HF iso the HO. The HO is designed for smaller cabinets than the HF, but it suffers in extended LF response.

If you are building the cab from scratch, you will need the following tools at a minimum. Jigsaw and circular saw. A table saw and a router makes life a 1,000 times easier. Google Zaph Subwoofer for an excellent build for a subwoofer.

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #14 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 11:56 AM
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In retrospect, I should have gone with the 15" RSS390HF iso the HO. The HO is designed for smaller cabinets than the HF, but it suffers in extended LF response.
That's not really the case. The HO is intended for a ported cab, the HF for sealed. When loaded into the correct cab the HO will go lower than the HF, with considerably higher output. The black trace in the SPL chart below is the HO ported, the blue trace is the HF sealed:



DIY will seriously outperform store bought on a dollar for dollar basis, but you can't just stick a driver in a box and get the best possible results, You must either know how to properly match a driver to an enclosure or choose a design that's been thoroughly tested.
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post #15 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 02:21 PM
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On the parts express site you were looking at the pre assembled box. Also check out flat packs they offer http://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-kits/286

 

Check DIY Sound Group web site.

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post #16 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 02:24 PM
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8 maids a'...building subs.
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Pre-maid? Before the maid has built the sub?

...tongue.gif

DIY? What guys do when the maids not around to help?

...tongue.gif
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post #18 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 04:07 PM
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For me, pre-made subs are a better value than DIY.


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post #19 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
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For me, pre-made subs are a better value than DIY.

Please elaborate.

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post #20 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
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For me, pre-made subs are a better value than DIY.

Hah, you can't open up a can of worms like that and not explain!
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post #21 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 07:02 PM
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Site for DIY subwoofers that you put together with the supplied kit http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks-2.html
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post #22 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
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Hah, you can't open up a can of worms like that and not explain!


Oh, sorry hehe.  For me, its an issue of the value of time and money.  I work a lot, and do not have much time off work, so the time invested in building a DIY sub would not be worth it in that sense.  Another way to look at it would be that I can make a lot more money working one or two extra days, versus the money I would save spending two days working on building a sub.  So if for example I could buy an $800 pre made sub, or build it for $500, the two days it would take me to build it(as an example, not really sure how long it would take) would not be worth it, as my time would be more than twice as valuable as the $300 savings if I were to simply work and get paid for those two days.

 

I probably could have explained in an easier to understand manner if I tried a bit, but hopefully you get my point.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Pre-maid? Before the maid has built the sub?

...tongue.gif

DIY? What guys do when the maids not around to help?

...tongue.gif

tongue.gif lol
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post #24 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 10:30 PM
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Oh, sorry hehe.  For me, its an issue of the value of time and money.  I work a lot, and do not have much time off work, so the time invested in building a DIY sub would not be worth it in that sense.  Another way to look at it would be that I can make a lot more money working one or two extra days, versus the money I would save spending two days working on building a sub.  So if for example I could buy an $800 pre made sub, or build it for $500, the two days it would take me to build it(as an example, not really sure how long it would take) would not be worth it, as my time would be more than twice as valuable as the $300 savings if I were to simply work and get paid for those two days.

I probably could have explained in an easier to understand manner if I tried a bit, but hopefully you get my point.

Got it. I went DIY to get away from work. biggrin.gif
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post #25 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 10:34 PM
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Got it. I went DIY to get away from work. biggrin.gif


If I had free time like a normal person and did not  work 75 hours/week, it is something I might have pursued, but with my current work schedule, I would rather be shot than do any work around the house :) 


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post #26 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 10:40 PM
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If I had free time like a normal person and did not  work 75 hours/week, it is something I might have pursued, but with my current work schedule, I would rather be shot than do any work around the house smile.gif  

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post #27 of 56 Old 02-10-2014, 11:58 PM
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DIY offers incredible value but likes others have mentioned, their time is money. I had dual XS30's in my theater room and I'm in the process of switching over to DIY with a pretty big build.

I get the impression that guys that want great bass go with a great ID company, and guys that want over the top bass go DIY. biggrin.gif

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post #28 of 56 Old 02-11-2014, 05:25 AM
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I get the impression that guys that want great bass go with a great ID company, and guys that want over the top bass go DIY.
IMO newbies buy subs at a store, be it brickfront or an internet store like Amazon. Old hands go ID, because they know why gear from Hsu, Seaton, JTR and the like offer better value. Those who recognize the value of DIY but are woodworking challenged get kits, while the real bass nuts are scratch built all the way. They're the ones who know that you don't go DIY to get for $250 what you can buy for $300, you go DIY to build for $500 what it would cost at least $2k to buy.
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post #29 of 56 Old 02-11-2014, 05:33 AM
 
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.....but hopefully you get my point.

When I was a small business owner, everything I did was DIY. Now? I'm retired. Other than sitting around and being as unproductive as the wife will allow, my time ain't worth doddle and with that point in mind, even I get your point. tongue.gif

If someone wants to go DIY, bless them. Reminds me of 1960s Heathkit days. Disclosure, even back then I didn't do Heathkit.

(Heathkit is currently trying to rise from the ashes...........again)

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post #30 of 56 Old 02-11-2014, 05:42 AM
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In my many years of owning and building up my stereo equipment I have gone through many pre-built subwoofers always wondering if there was something else better or bigger and spend hand over fist to get to a point were I was satisfied. A couple of years ago I decided to go the DIY route and created my first 15" sealed down firing sub with a kit I purchased from Rythmik audio. I had so much fun and got so much satisfaction from doing it that I put the first sub I made in the wife's listening room and made a couple of more. it took me about 4 months of working on them after work and on weekends but in my opinion for what I spent and the time I invested I didn't want to or could not see spending 3 times more money on pre built units of the same caliber. I have also made my own audio racks for all my equipment again fun and time well invested.



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