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post #1 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi:

 

I am looking for a compact subwoofer to sit on a structural/kneewall 9.5" shelf in a 16'x16' walled room. These seem to be my best options (in terms of size and max RMS watts), although I am not sure if the Mirage is being discontinued. 

 

Name

URL

RMS watts

Size

Price

W

H

D

Cambridge Audio Minx X200

URL

200

6-1/2"

$400

8.3"

8.6"

8.7"

Mirage MM-6 miniature*

URL

200

6-1/2"

$300

8"

8"

8"

Pinnacle SUBcompact 6

URL

?

6-1/2"

$188

9.25”

8”

9-3/8”

Pinnacle SubSonic

URL

200

6-1/2"

$300

9.443"

9.224"

9.479"

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on which one is "best"? I plan on using it with these Monoprice 5.1 Premium speakers:

 

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=109&cp_id=10906&cs_id=1090601&p_id=10565

 

and listening to movies primarily, but also music. Any advice would be appreciated!

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post #2 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 10:16 AM
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A "sub" with a 6-1/2" driver and likely less than 100W RMS isn't going to do much subwoofering in a 16' x 16' room. So, IMO, go with any of the ones that fit your budget. They'll all give you roughly the same performance.

-- Edit --
I just checked the subs' power ratings and I stand corrected: The Mirage MM-6 has a 200W RMS amp.

I took a quick look at the other subs' product pages and owner's manuals and I didn't see any mention of RMS in the power ratings:
- Pinnacle SUBcompact6 - 200W
- Pinnacle SubSonic - 350W
- CA Minx x200 - 200W

So, I'd go with the Mirage sub. smile.gif
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post #3 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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These all claim 200W RMS.....

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post #4 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I think they are all 200 rms- click the 200 links in the table above and also see

 

http://www.audioadvisor.com/Cambridge-Audio-X200-Subwoofer/productinfo/CAMIX200/#.Uv0eJ9so6Ml

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post #5 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 11:59 AM
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Your links are to Amazon. I went to each company's website and checked the product pages and the owner's manuals.
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post #6 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 12:21 PM
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Can't really expect a tiny little sub to fill a room that large, unless you get one of the higher end models like couple of SB2000.

As for speakers..not going to fill a room of that size

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post #7 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigwort View Post

These all claim 200W RMS.....
No matter, what limits the output of a sub isn't watts, it's the displacement of the driver, ie., how much air it can move. A 6.5 can't move enough to make it worthwhile having. In a room your size for HT you need a ten, minimum. Find another place to put it.

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post #8 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 01:05 PM
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Forgot having a cheap sub, and cheap $250 HTIB in a room of that size. Good, tiny subs are ones like Carver subwoofer. Certainly a bit more than a couple of hundred dollars. For a room of that size I'd be looking at a PCi at the minimum

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post #9 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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re "you need a ten, minimum"

 

What do you think of the Pinnacle SubSonic claim that its "two 6.5-Inch woofers create the equivalent surface area of 1 super powerful 10-Inch woofer"

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigwort View Post

re "you need a ten, minimum"

What do you think of the Pinnacle SubSonic claim that its "two 6.5-Inch woofers create the equivalent surface area of 1 super powerful 10-Inch woofer"

Very subjective because not all 10" subs perform equally. So is it equal to a Polk psw10 or svs PB1000?


Svs has a Pb1000 for $450 shipped in their outlet.

Need compact? sb1k or sb12 NSD by SVS
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post #11 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 06:13 PM
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What do you think of the Pinnacle SubSonic claim that its "two 6.5-Inch woofers create the equivalent surface area of 1 super powerful 10-Inch woofer"
The two drivers creating the equivalent surface area of:
- a ten-inch sub sounds reasonable;
- a "super powerful" ten-inch sub does not.
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post #12 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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The sb1k or sb12 are all too large. Fatbottoms suggestion of the Carver XTATM265 is interesting though. It claims to have 1400 watts rms. 

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post #13 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 06:24 PM
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Fatbottoms suggestion of the Carver XTATM265 is interesting though. It claims to have 1400 watts rms.
You can get a used one on eBay for only $1,000.
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post #14 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the ebay tip! So is this the only sub less than 9.5" dimensions (dimensions which basically mean a 6-1/2" driver), that has decent rms? The difference in watts is huge (as is the price!) but it seems to fit the bill. Any other manufacturers anyone knows with such a small unit and decent rms watts for a 16x16 ft room?

 

I really appreciate all the help so far!

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post #15 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigwort View Post

What do you think of Pinnacle SubSonic claim that its two 6.5-Inch woofers create the equivalent surface area of 1 super powerful 10-Inch woofer
Aside from the fact that they won't, totaling 250 sq cm versus 350sq cm for a ten, it doesn't matter. Output capability isn't determined by surface area, it's determined by surface area multiplied by excursion, which equals displacement. Not only do 6.5s have less surface area, they also have less excursion. An average pair of 6.5s would displace 250cc total, an average ten 600cc.
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It claims to have 1400 watts rms.
Watts don't matter. Displacement does.

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post #16 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Stigwort View Post

Does anyone have any thoughts on which one is "best"? I plan on using it with these Monoprice 5.1 Premium speakers:

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=109&cp_id=10906&cs_id=1090601&p_id=10565

and listening to movies primarily, but also music. Any advice would be appreciated!

Do you have to use those tiny satellites? With your total budget for speakers and sub, honestly, if I had to choose between your options of using that small sub with those speakers, I would simply get much bigger bookshelf speakers and skip the sub.

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post #17 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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 Watts don't matter. Displacement does.

The company says that on the XTATM265  "the displacement created by the dual drivers is equivalent to one big 12-inch driver."

 

Quote:
 Do you have to use those tiny satellites?

I will upgrade those later, but the fact that I need to put the subwoofer on a 9.5" wall is not going to change due to the function of the room.

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post #18 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 08:35 PM
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I think the problem here is that the people responding have a pretty good idea what they are talking about.  As such, they understand that a 6.5" speaker in a tiny box is not a subwoofer and can not defy the laws of physics to somehow function as one.  Also, I don't think people are going to recommend something that won't work for you.  If you are unwilling to consider an option that can realistically work, you may have to simply choose what you think looks the best, as it isn't going to perform well regardless.

 

The smallest, cheapest option for your needs is the SVS SB1000, $449 shipped from the outlet page.  It is 13" on all sides it will perform better than five of the mini speakers you are looking at.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, you just have to realize that within your space constraints, its not going to work well enough for people to make a recommendation,


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post #19 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigwort View Post

The company says that ...displacement created by the dual drivers is equivalent to one big 12-inch driver."
How many cc? A good twelve is 900cc.
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the fact that I need to put the subwoofer on a 9.5" wall is not going to change due to the function of the room.
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if I had to choose between your options of using that small sub with those speakers, I would simply get much bigger bookshelf speakers and skip the sub
I agree.

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post #20 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigwort View Post
 

The company says that on the XTATM265  "the displacement created by the dual drivers is equivalent to one big 12-inch driver."

 

 

From Sound and visions test of this subwoofer, max output:

20 Hz        NA
25 Hz        76.1 dB
31.5 Hz     89.5 dB

 

 "There wasn’t enough output at 20 Hz to get a measurement"

 

And this is a $1200 mini sub.  Imagine how well the $300 subs with 6.5" speaker will perform.


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Originally Posted by Stigwort View Post

Hi:

I am looking for a compact subwoofer to sit on a structural/kneewall 9.5" shelf in a 16'x16' walled room.

Is this the only place you can put the sub? The 9.5" depth is your main limiting factor. Although you've listed the various dimensions of the subs you're considering, don't forget to make extra allowance for the connectors and cables - this could add another 2" - 3" depth required.

If you can, do seriously look for another space which allows you to put in a bigger sub. Don't get too caught up by the claims you've read for those small subs.
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post #22 of 33 Old 02-13-2014, 09:13 PM
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Remember, a subwoofer can often be hidden in a room, perhaps in a corner, behind a piece of furniture, etc.


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post #23 of 33 Old 02-14-2014, 07:20 AM
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I think the problem here is that the people responding have a pretty good idea what they are talking about.  As such, they understand that a 6.5" speaker in a tiny box is not a subwoofer and can not defy the laws of physics to somehow function as one.  Also, I don't think people are going to recommend something that won't work for you.  If you are unwilling to consider an option that can realistically work, you may have to simply choose what you think looks the best, as it isn't going to perform well regardless.

Yep. The only practical use of these 6.5" subs is with small satellites in a computer desktop setup where one is sitting 2 or 3 feet from the sub. Then it's role is to supply midbass that the tiny speakers don't have, more of a midbass module than a subwoofer. And it won't fill a room with bass. It works because one is sitting so close.

Anyway, here is the only sub I know of that can fit on 9.5" shelf and could do well in that room, but it's way out of your budget range: http://www.paradigm.com/products-current/model=milleniasub/page=overview

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 SVS SB1000

Unfortunately this is too big. Everyone here is very knowledgeable, and I think the discussion is extremely useful for those looking for compact subwoofers in general (even without my size requirements). I don't think SVS does an (ultra-) compact subwoofer.

 

Quote:
 this could add another 2" - 3" depth required.

Yes, thanks. I am going to use angle connectors to keep this to a minimum.

 

Quote:
 And this is a $1200 mini sub.  Imagine how well the $300 subs with 6.5" speaker will perform.

 

So for me especially, the XTATM265 is the best so far. Are there any other comparable competing *compact* subwoofers out there? They would probably be high-end retailer only ones like the Sunfire, otherwise I would have stumbled on them in my shopping searches by now.

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So for me especially, the XTATM265 is the best so far. Are there any other comparable competing *compact* subwoofers out there? They would probably be high-end retailer only ones like the Sunfire, otherwise I would have stumbled on them in my shopping searches by now.

Yes. The Paradigm MilleniaSub that I just posted above. It has excellent measured output down to around 30hz.

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Yes. The Paradigm MilleniaSub that I just posted above. It has excellent measured output down to around 30hz.

Without doing a lot of searching it seems these two would offer good bass for music, the sacrifice being of course that they won't have much under 30Hz.  Good output for their sizes though.  BB mentioned the upper bass output of the sunfire seemed a bit low, so might want to consider how low your satellites will go.


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Without doing a lot of searching it seems these two would offer good bass for music, the sacrifice being of course that they won't have much under 30Hz.  Good output for their sizes though.  BB mentioned the upper bass output of the sunfire seemed a bit low, so might want to consider how low your satellites will go.

Well, and the Paradigm MilleniaSub is really designed for a shelf placement like the OP has with it's narrow profile. More output than the SVS SB-1000 would have, and I'd bet on the MilleniaSub to have more output than the Sunfire.

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Why is a 12" sealed box "too large" I have a 12" SB in a 3.5m x 3.5m room and no problem. And in another room similar size a SB Ultra 13.

Just place it on the floor.

You will regret buying XTATM265, 6.5" cannot match output or frequency response of a 12" sealed box. Plus it's several times more expensive, you can buy a second hand SVS SB 12 for £300. It won't be able to fil a room of that size.

A ported sub with 300W amp 12" will have far greater output than that XTATM265 which has 1kW+ It's not about power it's about efficinecy. A SVS PCi would utterly destroy a XTATM265 (granted it's bigger but because it's ported it's "only" 300W) but it would have probably +10dB output or even more at 30hz, and below.

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post #29 of 33 Old 02-14-2014, 12:21 PM
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Why is a 12" sealed box "too large" ...
If you check the OP's original post, he lists a size max for at least one dimension:
Quote:
I am looking for a compact subwoofer to sit on a structural/kneewall 9.5" shelf ...
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post #30 of 33 Old 02-14-2014, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stigwort View Post

 

What do you think of the Pinnacle SubSonic claim that its "two 6.5-Inch woofers create the equivalent surface area of 1 super powerful 10-Inch woofer"

I think they are bad at math.  Area= pi*radius squared

 

Area of two 6.5" woofers = 3.14*3.25*3.25*2=66.325 sq. in.

 

Area of one 10" = 3.14*5*5 = 78.5 sq in., which is 18% more surface area than dual 6.5"


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