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post #1 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 03:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm in a dilemma to optimize my HT setup in my basement. eek.gif

I just bought a PB12-NSD, currently have a Velodyne F1500.

Laminate floors and 100% drywalls.

What should be Sub1, and where should I put Sub2?



Thanks.
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post #2 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 06:28 AM
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The best way to do it is to download the REW software and use it to measure the response and try to get one as flat as possible by trying different locations. This will require you to buy a microphone such as the UMIK-1 which can be found URL=http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_umik.html]here[/URL].

If you don't want to spend money on a microphone, you can still use the room simulation feature in the REW software which will show you the different responses for up to 4 subwoofers. It works best if you have a sealed rectangular room. Yours seems fairly close.

If you don't wanna do any of that, you can try putting SUB2 somewhere along the back wall try between your surround backs.

My home theater
Speakers: 3 JTR 212HTR (LCR), 2 Jtr Single 8LP (S), 2 JTR Triple 12LF (SB)) , 4 Volt 10LX (Atmos)
Subwoofers: 4 Rythmik FV15HP , 5 Crowson Shadow 8 transducers, 3 Buttkicker LFE
Display: JVC RS400
FS: 4xRythmik FV15HP
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post #3 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback. Can I use the Audyssey mic on my HTR8063B mic as well?

Which sub would you put front and which one back?
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post #4 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 07:07 AM
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My understanding is that the audyssey microphone is calibrated either for the model or the unit (not sure which) so I don't think it will work with a Yamaha.
It is best if the two subwoofers you are using are identical but you can still use two non-identical subwoofers if they are not too far apart. I have no way to tell you for sure which one will work better in which place.. You will have to try different places and see what sounds best. REW / Microphone will be very useful so you can look at what kind of response you are getting as opposed to just using your ears.
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Originally Posted by Xcessiv View Post

Thanks for the feedback. Can I use the Audyssey mic on my HTR8063B mic as well?

Which sub would you put front and which one back?

My home theater
Speakers: 3 JTR 212HTR (LCR), 2 Jtr Single 8LP (S), 2 JTR Triple 12LF (SB)) , 4 Volt 10LX (Atmos)
Subwoofers: 4 Rythmik FV15HP , 5 Crowson Shadow 8 transducers, 3 Buttkicker LFE
Display: JVC RS400
FS: 4xRythmik FV15HP
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post #5 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Regarding the sub1 vs sub2, isn't there a rule on where a ported sub should typically go, compared to a sealed one?
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post #6 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 07:42 AM
 
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What ever is chosen, a sub is best served nearfield behind the (MLP) main listening position.

No rules that I know of regarding sealed vs ported placement issues.

Quote:
I just bought a PB12-NSD, currently have a Velodyne F1500.

As soon as you can, sell the F1500 and purchase a second PB12-NSD. Sonically, mixing and matching dissimilar subwoofers, gets messy real fast as due to acoustics in a room, subs don't play and get along well with each other and the further apart subs are from each other, the worse the problem becomes.

F1500 specs and manual

SB12-NSD specs.

Technology between the F1500 and the SB12-NSD differ considerably. The big one is the LFE channel vs two RCA input technology.

-
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post #7 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

What ever is chosen, a sub is best served nearfield behind the (MLP) main listening position.

No rules that I know of regarding sealed vs ported placement issues.
As soon as you can, sell the F1500 and purchase a second PB12-NSD. Sonically, mixing and matching dissimilar subwoofers, gets messy real fast as due to acoustics in a room, subs don't play and get along well with each other and the further apart subs are from each other, the worse the problem becomes.

F1500 specs and manual

SB12-NSD specs.

Technology between the F1500 and the SB12-NSD differ considerably. The big one is the LFE channel vs two RCA input technology.

-
The F1500 is on its way out, the knobs sometimes cause it to stop completely. My hope is that the PB12-NSD will be able to provide enough bass alone once the F1500 retires.
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post #8 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 08:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcessiv View Post

The F1500 is on its way out, the knobs sometimes cause it to stop completely. My hope is that the PB12-NSD will be able to provide enough bass alone once the F1500 retires.

It's a nice idea but due to room smoothing issues and how subwoofer produced subwoofer sound waves interact with each other in a room (reflections, peaks, nulls, dips), one is best served with a minimum of two subwoofers. There's a huge sonic difference, one sub vs two.

Approximately how many cu ft is your listening space? With your schematic, approximating the undefined lines and using a nine foot ceiling, I have approximately 2268^3.

To get a general idea of how much subwoofage it takes to fill a space, check out the first couple of posts in the ULF thread.

The information can fiscally be a bit discouraging but at the same time, the information will give one an excellent idea how much subwoofage they'll need to get to a certain level of output for any one dissimilar space.

-
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post #9 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 08:33 AM
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I agree with not even using the F1500 and getting a 2nd PB12NSD. You can do the sub crawl to help you find the best spot for your secon sub. BUT you may want to try on the right side wall just behind your couch and kinda below the surround right speaker that should give you some good tactile feeling there.

Shawn
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post #10 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 08:49 AM
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Do the sub crawl as mentioned. Subs normally perform best where they asthetically look the worst, but hey all we care about is good sound right. wink.gif

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

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post #11 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post

The best way to do it is to download the REW software and use it to measure the response and try to get one as flat as possible by trying different locations. This will require you to buy a microphone such as the UMIK-1 which can be found URL=http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_umik.html]here[/URL].
 

Follow AustinJerry's excellent guide:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs#post_22790110


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post #12 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

I agree with not even using the F1500 and getting a 2nd PB12NSD. You can do the sub crawl to help you find the best spot for your secon sub. BUT you may want to try on the right side wall just behind your couch and kinda below the surround right speaker that should give you some good tactile feeling there.
I should have clarified this first, the PB12NSD is ordered already and 2x600$ is way out of my budget. eek.gif My mistake...
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post #13 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

What ever is chosen, a sub is best served nearfield behind the (MLP) main listening position.

-

I'd disagree with this assessment.

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post #14 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 08:59 AM
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If you don't have room measurement equipment, the subwoofer crawl is the best way to place the sub.  Corner loading will provide the most room gain, and the PB12 should have plenty of output for your room.  So plop the sub on your couch, fire up some electronica, and crawl around the walls and corners of your room until you find a spot that provides the best bass.  Put the sub there.

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post #15 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcessiv View Post

I should have clarified this first, the PB12NSD is ordered already and 2x600$ is way out of my budget. eek.gif My mistake...

Oh ok my bad. Although maybe you could've done dual PB1000s for $949 or even dual Reaction Audio BPS212 for $700 shipped. It is always preferred to go with dual identical subs.

Shawn
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post #16 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

If you don't have room measurement equipment, the subwoofer crawl is the best way to place the sub.
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Do the sub crawl as mentioned. Subs normally perform best where they asthetically look the worst, but hey all we care about is good sound right. wink.gif

^^^That pretty much sums it up. Usually sub placement comes down to compromise. Pick the spot with the best response you can live with.

The only part of the sub crawl I don't agree with is; you don't get the whole picture. Certain room modes are easier to eq than others. So placing the sub in a position that "sounds" best always doesn't equate into the area with the best overall FR. But then again, if you don't have the software, you probably don't care about that. smile.gif

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post #17 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 10:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Do the sub crawl as mentioned. Subs normally perform best where they asthetically look the worst, but hey all we care about is good sound right. wink.gif

And Murphy's Law says, the MLP will "ALWAYS" be in the deepest null.......because it's da law.

...tongue.gif
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post #18 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 10:11 AM
 
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I'd disagree with this assessment.

Well, that's a first. tongue.gif

...wink.gif
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 10:19 AM
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Well, that's a first. tongue.gif

...wink.gif

I'd disagree with that too. I've disagreed way more than just once. tongue.gifwink.gif

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post #20 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 10:23 AM
 
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I'd disagree with that too. I've disagreed way more than just once. tongue.gifwink.gif

...eek.gif

I've not noticed.

...tongue.gif
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post #21 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

...eek.gif

I've not noticed.

...tongue.gif

Yeah, I'm pretty subtle that way. cool.gif

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post #22 of 24 Old 02-14-2014, 10:31 AM
 
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post #23 of 24 Old 02-17-2014, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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The selected spot is finally the right side wall just behind my couch and kinda below the surround right speaker. WOW, what a woofer!

For some reason, I also like the combination of Velodyne 15" and PB12-NSD. They complement each other quite well without destroying the frequencies.
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post #24 of 24 Old 02-18-2014, 05:11 AM
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Glad it worked out for ya I hope you continue to enjoy cuz the PB12NSD is a great sub... I was just guessing based on my experience where a good spot is for a sub and it looks like that is the spot that worked out for you in your room.

Shawn
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