polk psw125 vs. Rythmik fv15hp - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 02-16-2014, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't get much impact from my psw125 sub (it's the first sub I owned)  I hear some bass during movies, but I don't really feel it.  

It's ok during music playback, but I use my system for 99% movies.

 

My HT room is 13 x 27 x 8.5. The tv is on the 13' wall.  There is a standard single door opening opposite the front sound stage and a staircase to the level above.

 

I sort of splurged and ordered the fv15hp after reading all the glowing reviews.  Do you think there will be a significant difference? ;)

 

It's scheduled to be here this Wednesday. I can't wait.  I even ran two new 20A circuits to use for my existing equipment and the new sub.


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post #2 of 26 Old 02-16-2014, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckindt View Post
 

I don't get much impact from my psw125 sub (it's the first sub I owned)  I hear some bass during movies, but I don't really feel it.  

It's ok during music playback, but I use my system for 99% movies.

 

My HT room is 13 x 27 x 8.5. The tv is on the 13' wall.  There is a standard single door opening opposite the front sound stage and a staircase to the level above.

 

I sort of splurged and ordered the fv15hp after reading all the glowing reviews.  Do you think there will be a significant difference? ;)

 

It's scheduled to be here this Wednesday. I can't wait.  I even ran two new 20A circuits to use for my existing equipment and the new sub.

If these subs were in a shootout, it would be like PeeWee Herman fighting The Rock.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

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LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

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post #3 of 26 Old 02-16-2014, 06:40 AM
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I sort of splurged and ordered the fv15hp after reading all the glowing reviews.  Do you think there will be a significant difference? wink.gif
Nope, no difference at all... tongue.gif

Congrats on the new sub! cool.gif

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post #4 of 26 Old 02-16-2014, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

If these subs were in a shootout, it would be like PeeWee Herman fighting The Rock.

Or like the difference between a pellet pistol and a .357 magnum revolver. LOL

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Or like the difference between a pellet pistol and a .357 magnum revolver. LOL

And if you have two of them, it's like a .357 vs a .500. tongue.gif

The point, when it arrives, you will not be disappointed. We'll look forward to your first impressions and if you have questions during setup, we'll be happy to help you down range.

(before I die, I want to own a Henry....just to say I own one)

...wink.gif

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I even ran two new 20A circuits to use for my existing equipment and the new sub.

Now that's thinking ahead. Congratulations on your effort and your new purchase.

-
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post #6 of 26 Old 02-16-2014, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the reassuring comments and visual analogies. eek.gif
I'm looking forward to hearing and feeling the new sub. I'm sure I'll have some questions about set up - I'm still feeling out REW, but my mic only has a FR down to 20hz.

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post #7 of 26 Old 02-16-2014, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Ckindt View Post

I'm looking forward to hearing and feeling the new sub. I'm sure I'll have some questions about set up - I'm still feeling out REW, but my mic only has a FR down to 20hz.

That will be fine for figuring out where the best place is to put your sub smile.gif

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post #8 of 26 Old 02-16-2014, 08:01 AM
 
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For the time being, if it has a correction file you can load into REW, the measuring microphone will get you where ever the FV15HP will be able to take you.

When the time arrives, for <$100.00, you can always add a better measuring microphone.

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post #9 of 26 Old 02-16-2014, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post


Nope, no difference at all... tongue.gif

Congrats on the new sub! cool.gif


This was way better than my analogy :) 


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post #10 of 26 Old 02-16-2014, 10:00 AM
 
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This was way better than my analogy smile.gif

Not really as we all know which truck represents the Rock.

Pee-Wee-Herman-375x377.jpg ...vs...

...tongue.gif

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post #11 of 26 Old 02-21-2014, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Nope, no difference at all... tongue.gif

Congrats on the new sub! cool.gif


smile.gif I have been listening to my new sub for three days now and all I can say is wtf! I am amazed by the feel of the lfe's in worthy movies. The whole house shakes and rattles. In music the detail and accuracy throughout the fr is incredible.

Now for the Polk: uh, well, it tried.? It's a pos in comparison, but it's not quite fair to compare the two really. It has it's purpose, but it eludes me right now.

Settings on the fv:
Avr line in
Rumble off/1
One port plugged
Damping low ht/ hi music
Ext freq 14
Volume 21:30 to match 75 db level of other speakers. Any higher and things started falling off shelves during testing!biggrin.gif
100hz sub xover in avr 60 hz for all other channels

I have not run any fr tests - not sure how to set up REW yet, but I'm happy with the sound now and will just enjoy for a while. I did do the sub craw to find an optimal spot for it.

Now I need to upgrade my front left and right monitor 60's.
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post #12 of 26 Old 02-21-2014, 04:21 PM
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It's a pos in comparison, but it's not quite fair to compare the two really. It has it's purpose, but it eludes me right now.
That's what the guy who replaced his compact pick-up with a Terex Titan probably thought! wink.gifbiggrin.gif

Glad to hear that you're appropriately blown away by your new sub. cool.gif
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post #13 of 26 Old 02-21-2014, 05:02 PM
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smile.gif I have been listening to my new sub for three days now and all I can say is wtf!

I don't think you would have believed us before if we had told you that now you will become a critic of whether your house or the movie theater has better bass. LOL
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Now I need to upgrade my front left and right monitor 60's.

Definitely wouldn't hurt. But I feel certain that there are many of us here who's sub setup cost as much as their front soundstage. Subs like yours are an awesome upgrade biggrin.gif

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post #14 of 26 Old 02-21-2014, 05:04 PM
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One more thing: Enjoy the four to five star movies in this list: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/the-new-master-list-of-bass-in-movies-with-frequency-charts

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post #15 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckindt View Post

Settings on the fv:
Avr line in
Rumble off/1
One port plugged
Damping low ht/ hi music
Ext freq 14
Volume 21:30 to match 75 db level of other speakers. Any higher and things started falling off shelves during testing!biggrin.gif
100hz sub xover in avr 60 hz for all other channels


Glad you're enjoying your new sub, but some of your settings don't look quite right. I would guess your frequency response would have a big hump between 60Hz and 100Hz since both the sub and speakers would be playing these frequencies.

Did you run Audyssey XT32? If not, you should at least give a try.
Did you follow the Rythmik Installation Guide?

When you run Audyssey, adjust the Volume (Gain) control on the sub - only to obtain a successful Audyssey run (i.e. so that Audyssey sets your sub to a +-3dB Level setting, ideally).
Thereafter, you shouldn't be touching the Volume control on the sub. Obtain your 75dB matching levels (after the Audyssey run) by adjusting the Level Calibration setting in the AVR only, not on the sub.

Recommendations:
Use the LFE input on the sub (if you use the Line-in connector, it enables the Phase, Crossover and Low Pass Slope controls on the Sub, which may conflict with what the AVR/Audyssey is trying to set...use the AVR for your bass management).

None of your speakers should be set to Full Band.
Your fronts are flat down to 48Hz, I would cross those over to the sub at 80Hz or 60Hz (whichever sounds best to you).
Your surrounds are flat down to 61Hz, I would cross those over to the sub at 80Hz.
Your center is flat down to 65Hz, I would cross that over to the sub at 80Hz.
LPF of LFE - set to 120Hz.

After running Audyssey:
Use an SPL meter to set all speakers to 75dB using the AVR's Level Calibration controls. Feel free to bump the subwoofer's Level Cal setting a few extra dBs to suit your taste. Be sure to take into account the SPL meter's correction tables, if any. Again, you should be using the AVR's controls, not the Volume control on the sub itself.

Turn off Audyssey Dynamic Volume in the AVR.

Enable Audyssey Dynamic EQ (DEQ) and see if you like it (you can always turn it off), experiment with the different Offsets.


IMO, AFAIK,YMMV.

Have fun.

...
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post #16 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Glad you're enjoying your new sub, but some of your settings don't look quite right. I would guess your frequency response would have a big hump between 60Hz and 100Hz since both the sub and speakers would be playing these frequencies.

Did you run Audyssey XT32? If not, you should at least give a try.
Did you follow the Rythmik Installation Guide?

When you run Audyssey, adjust the Volume (Gain) control on the sub - only to obtain a successful Audyssey run (i.e. so that Audyssey sets your sub to a +-3dB Level setting, ideally).
Thereafter, you shouldn't be touching the Volume control on the sub. Obtain your 75dB matching levels (after the Audyssey run) by adjusting the Level Calibration setting in the AVR only, not on the sub.

Recommendations:
Use the LFE input on the sub (if you use the Line-in connector, it enables the Phase, Crossover and Low Pass Slope controls on the Sub, which may conflict with what the AVR/Audyssey is trying to set...use the AVR for your bass management).

None of your speakers should be set to Full Band.
Your fronts are flat down to 48Hz, I would cross those over to the sub at 80Hz or 60Hz (whichever sounds best to you).
Your surrounds are flat down to 61Hz, I would cross those over to the sub at 80Hz.
Your center is flat down to 65Hz, I would cross that over to the sub at 80Hz.
LPF of LFE - set to 120Hz.

After running Audyssey:
Use an SPL meter to set all speakers to 75dB using the AVR's Level Calibration controls. Feel free to bump the subwoofer's Level Cal setting a few extra dBs to suit your taste. Be sure to take into account the SPL meter's correction tables, if any. Again, you should be using the AVR's controls, not the Volume control on the sub itself.

Turn off Audyssey Dynamic Volume in the AVR.

Enable Audyssey Dynamic EQ (DEQ) and see if you like it (you can always turn it off), experiment with the different Offsets.


IMO, AFAIK,YMMV.

Have fun.

First, thanks for all the tips!  I was just going through all my settings this morning.

 

I set all my speakers to 60hz crossover and the sub is at 80hz.

 

I used my spl meter to check the FR of the sub playing sine wave test tones. It was -10db off in the 35-55hz range and pretty hot lower than that to its roll off - not very good.  After fiddling with minor position changes and then tweaking its PEQ I finally moved it to the opposite side of the room. Starting with the PEQ off in the new location, I immediately saw a dramatic improvement in the 35-55hz range. It was really quite flat except below 25hz where it was +7 or so strong.  I was able to pull it down with the PEQ to achieve a pretty flat response, at least as good as I could with only a spl meter.

 

I ran audyssey and am quite pleased by how it sounds. I did have to modify the crossovers to 60hz and tweak the distances here and there.  I disabled the dynamic volume and I leave the dynamic eq on.

I'll listen to it for a while, but I think I may take the crossovers up on the surrounds and center as you suggested.


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post #17 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
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First, thanks for all the tips!  I was just going through all my settings this morning.

I set all my speakers to 60hz crossover and the sub is at 80hz.

I used my spl meter to check the FR of the sub playing sine wave test tones. It was -10db off in the 35-55hz range and pretty hot lower than that to its roll off - not very good.  After fiddling with minor position changes and then tweaking its PEQ I finally moved it to the opposite side of the room. Starting with the PEQ off in the new location, I immediately saw a dramatic improvement in the 35-55hz range. It was really quite flat except below 25hz where it was +7 or so strong.  I was able to pull it down with the PEQ to achieve a pretty flat response, at least as good as I could with only a spl meter.

I ran audyssey and am quite pleased by how it sounds. I did have to modify the crossovers to 60hz and tweak the distances here and there.  I disabled the dynamic volume and I leave the dynamic eq on.
I'll listen to it for a while, but I think I may take the crossovers up on the surrounds and center as you suggested.

If you are using the LFE-in connector on the sub (which you should be), the crossover control on the sub has no effect. Where are you setting the 80Hz for the sub?

Typically, you should set your crossovers ABOVE the F3 point (the -3dB point) of the speakers frequency response. So for your surrounds and center, the crossovers should be set at >60Hz (i.e. 70Hz; 80Hz; 90Hz, etc.).

You really shouldn't be changing the distance settings since they're not so much actual distance settings but delay settings.

HTH.

...
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post #18 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I use the lfe inputs on the sub and set the crossover in the avr.
The distances were only off of actual by 6" on a few speakers.

I used my spl meter to fine tune the levels tp 75 db. Most were close.
The volume knob on the sub ends up at 9:30 to achieve the 75db cal level.

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post #19 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ckindt View Post

I use the lfe inputs on the sub and set the crossover in the avr.
The distances were only off of actual by 6" on a few speakers.

I used my spl meter to fine tune the levels tp 75 db. Most were close.
The volume knob on the sub ends up at 9:30 to achieve the 75db cal level.

Just to be clear, you should not be touching the Volume knob on the sub once Audyssey has finished its calculations. All subsequent volume tweaking (including the sub) should be done in the AVR (via the Level Calibration adjustments). When you change the Volume knob (actually a Gain adjustment) on the sub, you're changing the Gain setting that Audyssey based it's calculations on. IOW, you're invalidating the Audyssey run that you just did.


It sounds like you're well on your way. Cheers.

...
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post #20 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Just to be clear, you should not be touching the Volume knob on the sub once Audyssey has finished its calculations. All subsequent volume tweaking (including the sub) should be done in the AVR (via the Level Calibration adjustments). When you change the Volume knob (actually a Gain adjustment) on the sub, you're changing the Gain setting that Audyssey based it's calculations on. IOW, you're invalidating the Audyssey run that you just did.


It sounds like you're well on your way. Cheers.

Thanks. I'll run audyssey again. I didn't rerun it after I replaced the Polk sub.

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post #21 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 04:56 PM
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Congrats to Ckindt! Hopefully I'll have my new FV15HP Next week!

So I have a question for y'all. The FV15HP is replacing an Energy eXL-10  I'm planning on getting a second FV15HP  end of summer.. But in the meantime should I even attempt to integrate the Energy? From what I've read the answer is (NO) Using XT32 AVR supports 2 subs. My room is 4400cu ft...

 

I didn't want to start a new thread for this, hope  OP doesn't mind


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post #22 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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No worries. This thread is really about how inferior subs are ... well, inferior and how a bad ass sub, such as the fv15hp, is no comparison like one member said above - you wouldn't believe the difference until you hear it for yourself.

If your sub is as close to sh*tty as my psw125, then you won't think twice about integrating it with a far more capable unit. It'd be a waste of time and counter productive.

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post #23 of 26 Old 02-23-2014, 07:40 PM
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The Energy isn't a bad sub IMOHO I've had it for over a decade. just a 100w ..Worked good in a small rm

I have  a USB Mic at the post office that I'll P/U tomorrow to run (learn) REW I'll probably at least mess around with it to see how good or bad the FV15HP and Energy play together.


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post #24 of 26 Old 02-24-2014, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
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The distances were only off of actual by 6" on a few speakers.
 

Yes but the point is that you should not change the distance set by your avr, as it takes into account other delays within the circuitry and makes sure that sound arrives at the MLP at the correct time.

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AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #25 of 26 Old 02-24-2014, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ProUnion View Post
 

The Energy isn't a bad sub IMOHO I've had it for over a decade. just a 100w ..Worked good in a small rm

I have  a USB Mic at the post office that I'll P/U tomorrow to run (learn) REW I'll probably at least mess around with it to see how good or bad the FV15HP and Energy play together.

I believe that, unless the single FV15 provides a flat response without eq in your room, pairing it with a smaller, inferior sub solely for the purpose of smoothing in room response, can still be beneficial.  Placing it in an optimal position and keeping the gain a bit lower will compensate for its lower output and prevent it from running out of steam before the Rythmik.  It will do nothing whatsoever to "hurt" the Rythmiks performance.

 

Of course, you want to make sure that you are not running the little sub out of steam and causing distortion and chuffing, etc.  Just lower the gain so this is not a problem.

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AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #26 of 26 Old 02-24-2014, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Yes but the point is that you should not change the distance set by your avr, as it takes into account other delays within the circuitry and makes sure that sound arrives at the MLP at the correct time.
Got it, thanks. I just ran a calibration with the new sub in its new home. All calculated distances were right on and won't be tampered with.
However, I did change the crossovers. They were all set to 40 hz by the calibration. I set the LCR to 70hz and all the surrounds to 80hz. The sub is at 100hz.

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