SVS PB13 Ultra, worth it? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:42 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm trying to get a question answered and can't seem to find one ha. I currently have dual PB-2000s but I'm considering going to a PB13 Ultra. A second "down the road" is possible but it would be a very long road and I would have to live with one sub for a while.

My sealed room is roughly 2600cu ft. I keep hearing that the output on the ultra is staggering but my dual PB-2000s are no slouch either. I'm just trying to determine if the ultra will SOUND different/better than my subs now at the same volume level, during the same movie scene. Thanks for any replies.
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post #2 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 05:15 AM
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Since you have two PB2000's I wouldn't change it.

Now if you had two of these then yes

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post #3 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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That seems to be the consensus I'm getting. If I'm going to notice a major difference I'll need to get two of a plus or ultra sub.
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post #4 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 07:01 AM
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Your PB2000 are pretty well built new designed subs. BUT the PB13Ultra is a whole 'nuther beast. You'd likely need twins to notice top volume impact improvement over your pair of PB2000's, but the sub will be cleaner down lower and give more deep visceral feeling. I've had other dual sub systems in my room and setteled finally on the PB13Ultras and haven't look back. I occasionally wonder what a pair of SubM's would do volume wise and sound quality wise, but in the end I rarely hit the limits of my Ultras. I say rarely because I occasionally do with certain movies and it cranked pretty loud (500w McIntosh monoblocks across the front to keep up with). In the end, I haven't heard the PB2000, so I can't directly compare. For entertainment you could order a single PB13 Ultra with free 45 day trial and see how one stacks up against your pair. One MAY keep up, but you may dislike not having a pair to help smooth room response. I occasionally turn one of mine off to remind me why I NEED a pair of matched balanced subs. With one turned off I can totally locate the single (either left or right) and I cross them over at 50Hz with my mains for music. Either way you go, enjoy the process!

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post #5 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you boarder, that's about the response I have been looking for. If driver x and driver y are both capable of hitting low Hz yet one has a higher build quality then one should sound better, right? I just hate to give up a dual setup. Perhaps a pair of Plus subs would be what I'm looking for and is much more obtainable financially but if I could live with one ultra until a second is possible then it may be worth it.

A ZO6 vette is my favorite car but I know it's out of my league so I eventually get to the point where I stop wondering "what if" but for some reason I don't feel I am there with the 2000s.

Thanks for the response, it helps smile.gif
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post #6 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 08:32 AM
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I feel like I came across a thread almost exactly like this about a month ago. I even remember someone saying that the pb13U is 's whole 'nuther beast.' and then the OP coming back and comparing it to a Z06.

If you plan on picking up a second ultra down the road and you don't feel like 2 ultras would be overkill in your room, then I'd get the ultra. If you would stay with a single ultra, then keep the PB2000s. With subs, there will always be more, so it is just a matter of when you feel you have enough. For some people, as made apparent by this forum, there is never enough.

If you want to know what crazy chest pounding bass feels like, listen to a high end car audio system that has some quality subwoofers. Not the guys with wal mart subs and everything is rattling, but quality components with proper deadening. I used to have a JL13w7 (Equivalent to a Fathom F113) in a tiny car and when it was hitting some low notes, it'd feel like your face was melting and eyes vibrating. It was an unreal experience and I do miss it at time but it is overkill for 99% of the time.


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post #7 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 08:47 AM
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Stick with your S2000 - much more rewarding to drive daily. Only place a Z06 really shines is at deadly speeds, which requires a track. Just curious where do you reside and what's your approximate budget?

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post #8 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't want to get to the point of being overkill with the bass and perhaps two ultras are unnecessary but I'm interested in quality bass. You're right, there's always more and we have to eventually get to a place where we stop wondering. I've yet to read anyone even slightly regretful of an ultra so that's gotta be saying something about the quality of this sub.
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post #9 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Ha my ZO6 won't work to well in lovely Michigan winter. Well I really don't want to go above 2k for sub/s combo but 2 PC12-PLUS is just over that. The ultra is very sexy but perhaps I'm not looking at it very objectively. Two plusses in my space should be more than I'd ever truly need.
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post #10 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

I'm trying to get a question answered and can't seem to find one ha. I currently have dual PB-2000s but I'm considering going to a PB13 Ultra. A second "down the road" is possible but it would be a very long road and I would have to live with one sub for a while.

My sealed room is roughly 2600cu ft. I keep hearing that the output on the ultra is staggering but my dual PB-2000s are no slouch either. I'm just trying to determine if the ultra will SOUND different/better than my subs now at the same volume level, during the same movie scene. Thanks for any replies.

Too much lf a lateral move imo... For a budget around 2k I would look into dual PC 12 + or Jump up to the Rythmik FV15HP, if ya can go 3k then a pair of Passive Ported Captivators would lay the smack down on everything talked about.
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post #11 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Definitely don't want to make a lateral move and I think a single ultra would be a bit too lateral. Dual PC12-PLUS is an option but I can't seem to get on board with the cylinder so perhaps I'll keep my subs and upgrade within the year.
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post #12 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

Definitely don't want to make a lateral move and I think a single ultra would be a bit too lateral. Dual PC12-PLUS is an option but I can't seem to get on board with the cylinder so perhaps I'll keep my subs and upgrade within the year.

I think that really is the best option. When I bought my duals, I talked with SVS first to see if I should get the SB13U or dual PB2000s and also asked about quality differences. They said that the sound quality between the two would be almost identical. The ultra would be slightly better but the chance of me hearing it would be very slim. The duals though would provide a decent amount more output than the SB13U and provide the benefits of dual subs. From measurements I've seen, dual pb2000s seem to be pretty similar in terms of output as a single ultra. So I'd actually say that if you went with a single ultra, it'd be a downgrade as output and sound quality-wise you'd be about the same, but could very well introduce nulls at your MLP by only having a single sub.

As for a Z06 in Michigan, it can definitely work! I probably wouldn't drive it in the winter, but with snow tires it'd be manageable. And it'd be awesome to have, especially the 2015 Z06. I daily drive a 400 hp RWD car in Wisconsin and with snow tires and a more conservative tune I feel very comfortable with it. And you're well aware of the type of winter we've had in the midwest this year. Don't mean to derail the thread though. It's just fun talking about 2 of my main hobbies at the same time.


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post #13 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 01:19 PM
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If you are up for a little gluing, how about 2-4 of these? http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-18-reference-series-ho-subwoofer-and-cabinet-package--300-7094

Each Dayton Kit gives you more output across the entire passband as a PB13 Ultra in 15Hz mode, 2 of them would be a decent upgrade from your current arrangement, 4 would drive you out of the house.
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post #14 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 01:34 PM
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I would go for a Rythmik FV15HP before I swung for a PB13 Ultra. The FV15HP digs deeper and has more mid and upper bass output and is $500 cheaper, it's just a better deal if you care about performance.
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post #15 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh no worries, I love talking cars too. I have a Focus ST with decent all seasons but this winter has been brutal. Plus I'm a driver so I'm ready for spring ha. Good to know about what SVS told you regarding the quality between the two you asked about. I truly feel I'll be disappointed with a single sub. Dual just adds so much more realism.

I'm not really up for diy simply because I don't have the time and I like to have a warranty with something this pricey.

Others have mentioned the Rythmik FV15HP as well. Hate paying shipping but that sub seems pretty worthy. I haven't spent any time with anything but SVS and the upgrade deal is very hard to get away from. Though I won't have the upgrade itch if I have the right feel. I think I'm pretty close with the 2000s but hmm...
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post #16 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 03:06 PM
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Lol, SVS charges for shipping, it is built into the price. By the way, return shipping is built into the price too, and that can kind of be considered a surcharge for those who end up keeping their SVS subs. As for the trade up program, your situation exemplifies the problem with it precisely. It hooks you into a brand and makes switching to another brand seem a lesser value than it would be otherwise. If money is at all a consideration, go for the FV15HP. It gives you PB13 Ultra performance for 75% of the cost.
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post #17 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Touché Shady, touché ha. Yes I'm aware how business works but I've been satisfied with my product/service from them so far. However, it seems to make sense to look at all options at this point. I'll be researching the FV15HP tonight
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post #18 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

Touché Shady, touché ha. Yes I'm aware how business works but I've been satisfied with my product/service from them so far. However, it seems to make sense to look at all options at this point. I'll be researching the FV15HP tonight

There's more as to why the PB13 Ultra costs more than the "built in" shipping. It weighs some 40lbs more than the FV15HP, has a much nicer finish. The piano black finish for the Rythmik ups the price by $220. The SVS has a better warranty and IMO looks a lot nicer with the rounded corners (more expensive to machine). The woofer is also more substantial even though it's 1.5 inches smaller in diameter.

Even though the FV15HP has a slight edge in extension and mid-upper range I'd rather spend $2K on the PB over $1600 or so for the piano black FV. Actually I'd get the PC13 Ultra cause I like the cylinder form and look and placement ease.

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post #19 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:01 PM
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Apples to apples, a piano black FV15HP is just over $1700 shipped, the ultra is $2k.  So its a $300 price difference with the same finish.  The Rythmik is a great value with tons of output for the price.  In my opinion, the ultra is a better quality sub, with lower distortion.  However, the Rythmik is offered in a cheaper finish, making it $500 cheaper for somewhat equivalent max output, and somewhat lower extension.  The question is, do you want sub 15Hz output?  The Rythmik seems to drop off in output over 80 Hz in exchange for its lower extension.  Will this matter if you cross at 80 anyway?  I dont't know.  The only substantial flaw that the Rythmik seems to have in my opinion is that it seems to be underported.  Two 3" ports seem pretty small for so much output(compared to three 3.5" on the ultra).  In one port mode, one 3" port seems rather anemic, and some users complain of port noise in this configuration, though others don't have that trouble.  Even the PB2000 with half the output has a 4" port.

 

To me, if you have $1500 to spend on the best ported sub you can afford, the Rythmik is the best choice.  If you want a nicer finish and can afford the $2k, the ultra is an all around better sub imo.


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post #20 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:06 PM
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To me, if you have $1500 to spend on the best ported sub you can afford, the Rythmik is the best choice.  If you want a nicer finish and can afford the $2k, the ultra is an all around better sub imo.

The PB13 does have a couple performance advantages over the FV15HP, but it can not be called an all around better sub, and in many respects the FV15HP beats it.
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post #21 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypucks View Post

I'm trying to get a question answered and can't seem to find one ha. I currently have dual PB-2000s but I'm considering going to a PB13 Ultra. A second "down the road" is possible but it would be a very long road and I would have to live with one sub for a while.

My sealed room is roughly 2600cu ft. I keep hearing that the output on the ultra is staggering but my dual PB-2000s are no slouch either. I'm just trying to determine if the ultra will SOUND different/better than my subs now at the same volume level, during the same movie scene. Thanks for any replies.

Hey hockey why don't  you upgrade to dual PB12-Plus now or in the near future.  This will give you substantially more output, will keep the benefit of dual subs, more tuneability for lower extension, eq ability if you don't have it yet, and will extend your one year option to upgrade again if you so desire, even if they just update the plus model.  And that piano black is damn sexy!


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post #22 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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These are all valid points. The finish doesn't concern me all that much since it'll be behind a false wall but I do like how the PB looks over the Rythmik. 2 FV15HPs will be much cheaper than 2 Ultras. It's a tough call since I haven't heard either and there will always be arguments for either one. Gut says I should stick with SVS but at what cost. 2k ha.
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post #23 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I'm very close to making the Plus series work for me. I doubt I'd see a major difference between the Plus and Ultra for my room. Both look fantastic! I like the cylinder price but if they don't end up behind my false wall I don't think I'd like how they'd look.
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post #24 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:17 PM
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The PB13 does have a couple performance advantages over the FV15HP, but it can not be called an all around better sub, and in many respects the FV15HP beats it.

When I do a careful comparison of all the graphs on data bass, along with Josh's imressions of the subs, the Ultra comes out ahead as an all around better sub, in my opinion.


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post #25 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:18 PM
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Even though the FV15HP has a slight edge in extension and mid-upper range I'd rather spend $2K on the PB over $1600 or so for the piano black FV.

Nearly a +9db@12hz is more than a "slight edge in extension". That +40lbs and +$500 bucks didn't add much to the performance besides look "prettier", imo.
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post #26 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The PB13 does have a couple performance advantages over the FV15HP, but it can not be called an all around better sub, and in many respects the FV15HP beats it.

Just curious ShadyJ have you heard a PB13U or FV15HP before you draw up and come to your own conclusion as stated above.

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post #27 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:28 PM
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Nearly a +9db@12hz is more than a "slight edge in extension". That +40lbs and +$500 bucks didn't add much to the performance besides look "prettier", imo.

If 12 Hz output is important to someone trying to choose between these two subs, the Rythmik would be the clear winner.  I personally focus on frequencies that matter more than .001% of the time.


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post #28 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:30 PM
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Yeah I'm very close to making the Plus series work for me. I doubt I'd see a major difference between the Plus and Ultra for my room. Both look fantastic! I like the cylinder price but if they don't end up behind my false wall I don't think I'd like how they'd look.

Yeah i am not too big on the cylinders, even though they are cheaper and have a smaller(horizontal) footprint.  I have seen a few things that seem to indicate the box versions have a slight performance advantage as well.


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post #29 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:30 PM
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 I personally focus on frequencies that matter more than .001% of the time.

Good grief. I'm so sick of hearing these statements. rolleyes.gif

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post #30 of 103 Old 02-28-2014, 04:38 PM
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Good grief. I'm so sick of hearing these statements. rolleyes.gif

:(Sorry, I don't mean to offend those that have reference capable systems down to or below this level.  I know this takes tremendous capability and most often a long and expensive journey to get there, so not knocking it.  I do not have the dedicated room nor the willingness to invest in the subwoofer system capable of such extension.

 

However, I do feel like it is somewhat accurate to say that, 99.9% of the time, one does not miss much if they can play down to 15 Hz or so at the level they normally listen at.


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