VTF-15: Do I have too much sub? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 02-28-2014, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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So I have a big room (20x40x8 - though the listening area is half the room, divided by a couch), and have been told that one VTF-15 won't be enough, but....

The squaw and I never listen very loud. We watched avengers ladt night, had the volume at -25, with the sub gain about a quarter up, and the receiver sub level at -1db (the mains are all set at - 5-7db by audyssey).

At these modest settings we got plenty of bass for us

So I'm wondering is could I downsize? I was thinking of something like the sb13 ultra or rythmik e15, but then started to wonder if I could even get by with a sb-2000 or sb12.

I could obviously leave well enough alone, but I'm always trying to improve WAF if I can.

Am I on the right path, or just setting myself up for regret?

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post #2 of 11 Old 02-28-2014, 05:32 AM
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There is no such thing as too much sub unless you refer only to its physical size. My situation isn't dissimilar to yours and I spend most of my system time playing music, not videos. I have a single 15" sealed sub and it more than handles my situation. I use it at only a fraction of its output. It replaced a 12" sub which also handled my situation, albeit with more effort and noise. I didn't replace it to get more bass. I replaced it to get better sound quality.

Personally I get a little confused about some peoples' concept of what a necessary amount bass is. My single sub plays LFE loud enough that my wife sometimes has to catch her breath. Since we are primarily in the process of watching a movie rather than judging sound effects, I don't need more than I have. Since my main speakers are full range, I give them just a tiny bit of support from the sub - the same sub that makes my wife catch her breath. Subwoofers can be a hobby unto themselves.

You would probably do fine with a good quality 12" sub. There you go. Now you have the unpopular opinion.
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post #3 of 11 Old 02-28-2014, 05:38 AM
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I wouldn't downsize at all. If it were me I'd want 2 to 4 of them things in your enormous room... There is never such thing as too much sub, if its too much bass just turn the sub down. Using a smaller less powerful sub you would probably be running near its max which is much harder on the amp and driver, so by using a big powerful sub at only 1/4 power you will extend the life of your sub by a long time. Another thing you could do is invest in a Radio Shack Digital Sound Pressure Level Meter for about $50. Then before you run Audyssey set the sub trim in the AVR to 0db, then adjust the gain on the sub's amp to read 75db on the SPL Meter at the main listening position (MLP). Then run Audyssey. Then use the digital SPL meter and set all channels to 75db (which for sub will be 0db trim level in AVR), which is calibrated for Reference Level. Then from there you can adjust the trim levels lets say in your center channel to have louder voices and then you can keep your sub trim level in the AVR at 0db or you can adjust it to -6db, -3db, +3db or +6db or whatever db to get the desired amount of bass. FWIW I run everything at 75db, BUT the Center at +6db hot or 81db and the Subs at +6db hot or 81db.

Shawn
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post #4 of 11 Old 02-28-2014, 07:22 AM
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^ Agreed, I'd want at least two in that room if financially feasible.

Projector: Benq W1070 1080p 2D/3D
Screen: 120" Elite fixed frame
AVR: Onkyo TX-NR809
Mains: Klipsch RF-62ii x 2
Center: Klipsch RC-62ii
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Subs: Dual Hsu VTF-15H's
Sonos-Play 5 and Play 3
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post #5 of 11 Old 02-28-2014, 07:29 AM
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I would need much more subwoofage then a VTF-15 in that size room. I would be looking at some Passive Ported Captivators. smile.gif
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post #6 of 11 Old 02-28-2014, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post

So I have a big room (20x40x8 - though the listening area is half the room, divided by a couch), and have been told that one VTF-15 won't be enough, but....

The squaw and I never listen very loud. We watched avengers ladt night, had the volume at -25, with the sub gain about a quarter up, and the receiver sub level at -1db (the mains are all set at - 5-7db by audyssey).

At these modest settings we got plenty of bass for us

So I'm wondering is could I downsize? I was thinking of something like the sb13 ultra or rythmik e15, but then started to wonder if I could even get by with a sb-2000 or sb12.

I could obviously leave well enough alone, but I'm always trying to improve WAF if I can.

Am I on the right path, or just setting myself up for regret?

Have you tried using your VTF-15 with both ports plugged? Sounds like you have sufficient headroom to use the VTF 15 in this quasi sealed mode. You would probably get response similar to a sealed sub.

Your situation is something of an anomaly in that you have a huge space but don't need a large ported sub. Of the subs you mentioned, the SVS SB-13 Ultra would be a very potent performer with unbeatable support, including 45 day no cost return policy. You would most likely not use even half of the capacity of the SB 13 Ultra.

But, again, try the no cost option of using your VTF 15 with both ports plugged and the proper settings for "sealed" mode on the rear of the sub.

Best Regards
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post #7 of 11 Old 02-28-2014, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

Have you tried using your VTF-15 with both ports plugged? Sounds like you have sufficient headroom to use the VTF 15 in this quasi sealed mode.

He is not trying to reduce bass. He is trying to reduce the physical size of the unit.
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post #8 of 11 Old 02-28-2014, 08:07 AM
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OP, I told you mine was the unpopular position. smile.gif Here is another option. It is possible to make a sealed sub in a smaller enclosure than a ported sub because it doesn't need to be tuned. Since you don't play loud, using a sealed 15 may be a good approach. I happen to use a sealed 15 myself and can vouch for its effectiveness. The box is only 20X20X19 inches. It doesn't bother my wife a bit.
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post #9 of 11 Old 02-28-2014, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

He is not trying to reduce bass. He is trying to reduce the physical size of the unit.

You are correct. He wants to improve WAF by going to a smaller sub. And, I agree with you that many of the good internet direct 12 inch subs would work for him. SVS PB 2000 would be a good choice with the 5 year warranty, 45 day try out and the trade up policies. The most dramatic difference would be the SVS SB 13 Ultra or the recently introduced JL Audio E112.Either of those 2 in piano black should have a high WAF.
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post #10 of 11 Old 02-28-2014, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

You are correct. He wants to improve WAF by going to a smaller sub. And, I agree with you that many of the good internet direct 12 inch subs would work for him. SVS PB 2000 would be a good choice with the 5 year warranty, 45 day try out and the trade up policies. The most dramatic difference would be the SVS SB 13 Ultra or the recently introduced JL Audio E112.Either of those 2 in piano black should have a high WAF.

The PB-2000 would not be a good choice for down sizing...its a rather large sub too. I like the Idea of a SB13U, JLE112, or even the Rythmik D15SE as a end table. smile.gif
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post #11 of 11 Old 03-01-2014, 05:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the responses -

Yeah, I'm certainly no bassaholic. Even on the rare occasions when I have the house to myself, if I put in a bass movie, even when I turn it up I don't need more than my VTF-15. And then watching with the wife I *really* don't push the VTF-15h.

I guess the question becomes then, would there be a sound quality increase with the contenders (Rythmik e15, sb13, Jl E series), or would I be paying $500-$1000 just for a size reduction? I guess this is more of a rhetorical question for me. I may end up buying a SVS and seeing if its worth it THEN sell the HSU rather than the other way around.


MK

PS basshead, I didn't include the D15SE end table option since with a toddler, a Mastiff and a Westie I gotta put the sub as far away from traffic as possible smile.gif

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