MUST READ! BEST $500 subwoofer! INFO & advice for FIRST time buyers! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 123 Old 03-02-2014, 08:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Reference_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,013
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt34 View Post

Someone buys their first decent sub and the heavens open and and they must proclaim the second coming of Jesus.















Pretty standard fare here in AVS land.





biggrin.gif
And even if thats true who cares? Nothing better to post but negativity? eek.gif

I will never understand why some people feel the need to put others down.
ahblaza and Smittyfit like this.

Klipsch Pro Cinema KPT-904 L/C/R, Pro Cinema KPT-1201-T2 for sides and Heresy II for backs.
SVS PB13-Ultra, PB12-Plus x2, and Velodyne SMS-1 Sub EQ
SC-55 elite and B&K 200.7 S2
JVC RS-45 Projector, and Seymour CS 125” 2.35 screen
Oppo BDP-103 9 ATS Acoustic panels
Reference_head is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 123 Old 03-02-2014, 09:34 PM
Senior Member
 
deepat04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Read closer, Jeremy stopped by to amend a comment about room gain from basshead. And you make it sound like there is some sort of consortium of people on my case all the time in every forum, when really its only you and a couple other guys who can't handle a civil discussion. Your invective against me is as fact free as your subwoofer reviews. Why not just do us both a favor: if you can not talk to me without resorting to personal attacks and insults, just put me on ignore.

ShadyJ, its known here and other forums that your dislike PSA and SVS, why who knows, its your opinion and you have every right to pick who you do business with. What starts debates in the majority of threads you take part in is you make false claims and more times then not are proven wrong. Here your stating the PB1000 is an inferior $500 subwoofer because it lacks output, not everyone is trying to fill a large room with reference level bass, but you knew that.


Also if you take a look at Jim Wilson's post the majority here agree with him questioning your credibility. This is after you mention Jim W. in a post, taking a personal attack at him, but scream foul play asking him to not make any personal attacks towards you and for him to block you when he replies.

Your labeled as a troll over at audioholics and if AVS allowed a thumbs down you would have long earned that title here.

shadyJ shadyJ is online now
Audioholic Samurai

shadyJ a forum troll idiot that just begs for attention




If you hate SVS and PSA so much practice what you preach, block threads that discuss their products.
steve nn, Billy p, ahblaza and 2 others like this.
deepat04 is offline  
post #63 of 123 Old 03-02-2014, 09:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,790
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post

I'm glad this thread is starting to get back to the original topic. As you folks can see I have been a member for some time now, I haven't posted a lot though. I'm honored to be a member here and have been spending a lot of time in the speaker and sub section, especially the PSA forum. I have purchased quite a few speakers and subs since becoming a member here. I consider The Jman (Jim Wilson) a good friend, I've had many interesting and informative PM's with him and have purchased speakers and subs that he has reviewed based on his SUBJECTIVE (not shouting) reco's including PSA subs and ARX speakers. These purchases have made me smile and continue to do so everyday. I've never heard a SVS sub so I can't comment on them. Tom and Jim of PSA both worked for SVS which is IMO is a good thing. I really like my PSA subs and as far as CS there is no equal. 5 year bumper to bumper warranty, made in the USA and they offer trade up deals, I know this to be fact as I've had every sub PSA makes in my home except the XV30. Hopefully in the future they will enter the loudspeaker business, looking forward to an all PSA setup. I want to thank Smitty for his enthusiastic review of his SVS, I don't know if it's the best $500 sub out there, but to him it is and that's all that matters. Hey Shady, you're probably a nice person in person, try smiling a little more, it's a lot easier than that frown you seem to wear when posting in every forum out here. mad.gifsmile.gif Hey Jman, it's nice to hear from you again even under these circumstances. smile.gif

Hey Jeff, it's always nice to hear from you. I'm glad you're happy with the purchases you've made - its gratifying to know that in some small way I was able to help you find things that worked for you. I hope you enjoy them for years to come my friend...
ahblaza likes this.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #64 of 123 Old 03-02-2014, 10:00 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,761
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepat04 View Post

Also if you take a look at Jim Wilson's post the majority here agree with him questioning your credibility. This is after you mention Jim W. in a post, taking a personal attack at him, but scream foul play asking him to not make any personal attacks towards you and for him to block you when he replies.

Actually, you guys should reread shadyj's post more carefully. It questions the credibility of Jim's reviews. That is different from attacking a person directly. Questioning reviews are fair game on AVS, and deciding that one is going to be reviewer means one has to learn to deal with that. Jim's response went beyond that to attack shadyj as a person. That's getting nasty.

Now I don't agree with everything shadyj said, but he did make a good point about the measurements. And it was in response to Smittyfit's citing of those measurements and talking about the credibility of the review. Now we all know that individual in-room measurements are only that--what the sub will do in that room. I'm not saying they are not useful in the sense it's nice to know that a sub performs OK in some room. But shadyj's objections to the usefulness of that are valid in the context of Smittyfit declaring so many things as fact about the PB-1000, even though shadyj could have been more tactful.
Follz20, its phillip and Boxozaxu like this.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
post #65 of 123 Old 03-02-2014, 10:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,136
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepat04 View Post

ShadyJ, its known here and other forums that your dislike PSA and SVS, why who knows, its your opinion and you have every right to pick who you do business with. What starts debates in the majority of threads you take part in is you make false claims and more times then not are proven wrong. Here your stating the PB1000 is an inferior $500 subwoofer because it lacks output, not everyone is trying to fill a large room with reference level bass, but you knew that.


Also if you take a look at Jim Wilson's post the majority here agree with him questioning your credibility. This is after you mention Jim W. in a post, taking a personal attack at him, but scream foul play asking him to not make any personal attacks towards you and for him to block you when he replies.

Your labeled as a troll over at audioholics and if AVS allowed a thumbs down you would have long earned that title here.

shadyJ shadyJ is online now
Audioholic Samurai

shadyJ a forum troll idiot that just begs for attention

That's nice. A few things, link to to some of the instances where I make false claims and am proven wrong. It should be easy since you say I am wrong so much. Second, I never said the PB1000 was a bad sub, I simply contended the OP's suggestion that it is the very best $500 available bar none. It's not bad, but its not perfect, and it has its share of trade-offs just like any other $500 sub. It would be great if you read the comments which you are so critical of. As for Jim, it's very noble of you to white knight for him, but you don't need to worry about him so much, there are still plenty of subwoofer companies willing to send him their subs because hey, free advertising.
shadyJ is offline  
post #66 of 123 Old 03-02-2014, 10:45 PM
Member
 
SnoPro700's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Well I am glad this thread was started as I am strongly considering the PB1000 as well as anything in its price point.
Also due to the fact I couldnt justify $800 on the PB2000. At least not right now.. The room that will "house" the subwoofer is 23x23 with 8ft high ceilings. I am basically looking for the cleanest sounding most accurate bass I can get. Im my old age (25) I am now going for SQ over output specially since my gf will be veiwing movies with me so having great SQ is more crucial then sheer loudness. I also love the fact that I could uprgrade to an PB2000 down the road if I ever felt the need at little to no cost. I am also really drawn to their "simpler" design of sub and port facing foward. Im not one for subs that face down.

My only real concern is I listen to alot of music (when I am home by myself). Seems like the SVS subs are more geared for reproducing sounds from movies then being musical?
SnoPro700 is offline  
post #67 of 123 Old 03-02-2014, 10:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bond 007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 12,461
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoPro700 View Post

Well I am glad this thread was started as I am strongly considering the PB1000 due to. the fact I couldnt justify $800 PB2000. At least not right now.. The room that will "house" the subwoofer is 23x23 with 8ft high ceilings. I am basically looking for the cleanest sounding bass most accurate bass I can get. Im my old age (25) I am now going for SQ over output specially since my gf will be veiwing movies with me so having great SQ is more crucial then sheer output. I also love the fact that I could uprgrade to an PB2000 down the road if I ever felt the need at little to no cost.
Upgrade aside if youre looking for the cleanest most accurate bass in that price range take a look at the Rhythmik LV12r. It also has more output than the pb1000. Youll need it in a room that size.
dominguez1 likes this.

No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!
Bond 007 is online now  
post #68 of 123 Old 03-02-2014, 11:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 1,795
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked: 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Actually, you guys should reread shadyj's post more carefully. It questions the credibility of Jim's reviews. That is different from attacking a person directly.

Statements by shadyj: "Also Jim Wilson's reviews are anything but credible." "He is (sic) reviews only exist to generate blurbs because he gives effusive praise to every single sub he has tried, no matter how ridiculous it is." "All he does is add on to the pile of uselessness."

Cel, I really do like your consistent and helpful post, and you are a valuable member of this website. However, I do not concur that shadyj just "questioned" Jim's reviews and only lacked tact. What I read, doesn't need further careful reading. It was blunt enough for everyone to see. I don't consider the above statements by shady anything other than personal insults to what Jim writes in total. We, as consumers, are fortunate to have people like Jim take their personal time and effort to review items that we may think about purchasing. That doesn't mean we can't disagree with the reviewer, but there are plenty of ways to outline one's disagreements with an article or a particular review without degrading the reviewer. IMO, shady's above statements go far beyond just disagreeing.
ahblaza likes this.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
dsrussell is online now  
post #69 of 123 Old 03-02-2014, 11:44 PM
Member
 
SnoPro700's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Upgrade aside if youre looking for the cleanest most accurate bass in that price range take a look at the Rhythmik LV12r. It also has more output than the pb1000. Youll need it in a room that size.

I was browsing on Rythmik's website the other day and the lv12r looked very appealing. I was wondering about it and was very curious to how it would stack up next to the PB1000 and PB2000
SnoPro700 is offline  
post #70 of 123 Old 03-02-2014, 11:52 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,761
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

Statements by shadyj: "Also Jim Wilson's reviews are anything but credible." "He is (sic) reviews only exist to generate blurbs because he gives effusive praise to every single sub he has tried, no matter how ridiculous it is." "All he does is add on to the pile of uselessness."

Cel, I really do like your consistent and helpful post, and you are a valuable member of this website. However, I do not concur that shadyj just "questioned" Jim's reviews and only lacked tact. What I read, doesn't need further careful reading. It was blunt enough for everyone to see. I don't consider the above statements by shady anything other than personal insults to what Jim writes in total. We, as consumers, are fortunate to have people like Jim take their personal time and effort to review items that we may think about purchasing. That doesn't mean we can't disagree with the reviewer, but there are plenty of ways to outline one's disagreements with an article or a particular review without degrading the reviewer. IMO, shady's above statements go far beyond just disagreeing.

An attack on someone's reviews about subs is fair game. His language could have been more tactful. He could have said "the reviews only exist to generate blurbs because they give effusive praise to every single sub . . ." Now I would agree that Jim's reviews are overly positive, but that's a systemic problem with the reviews on audio equipment. If a writer starts doing negative reviews, they better be prepared to buy the equipment, because manufacturers aren't going to send it. Tyll Hertsens explained this one time regarding similiar criticism about Innerfidelity that they just send back equipment that they can only negatively review, and thus their reviews end up being overly positive as a whole.

Shadyj's generalization about credibility? Well, subjective reviews are what they are. That's why we like standard measurements because subjective reviews are not as credible as Smittyfit said, which is what shadjy was responding to. Some people don't see purely subjective reviews as valid.

Anyway, see we can have a discussion about Jim's reviews based on what I have just said. But Jim's response escalated things quite a bit from there:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

If there's anyone who knows about not having creditability it would be you shady; there isn't a single forum you frequent where you're taken seriously. Indeed, there are even those that consider you a troll, and openly state that. All you do is surmise and postulate, which was again made painfully obvious by the fact that Jeremy had to stop by and refute your "Reaction BPS 212 Turbo would destroy the pb-1000" statement. Don't you ever get tired of being proven wrong? Usually people learn from their mistakes at some point, but apparently that lesson is lost on you.
Everything you've gotten from both me and all the others who constantly call you out is totally deserved. It's not by coincidence that so many people are on your case all the time you know. You reap what you sow, and in your case that's disdain.

So no. It's not justified.
its phillip likes this.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
post #71 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 12:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 1,795
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked: 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


Shadyj's generalization about credibility? Well, subjective reviews are what they are. That's why we like standard measurements because subjective reviews are not as credible as Smittyfit said, which is what shadjy was responding to. Some people don't see purely subjective reviews as valid.

Anyway, see we can have a discussion about Jim's reviews based on what I have just said. But Jim's response escalated things quite a bit from there:
So no. It's not justified.

Cel: I feel Jim's response was fully justified.

I also firmly feel that both subjective an objective reviews are necessary, and both are just as valid as the other. Audio consumers, especially those that visit websites like this one, use as many reviews as they can find to help narrow down the myriad of products that are available. I always check specs on audio equipment and speakers, but my final judgement is based upon personal auditions. How does that particular piece of equipment perform in my environment versus another? Subjective? You bet. In the final analysis, we all judge subjectively. It's important to have standard specs to compare or group these products (excellent, good, average, etc.). But specs alone can lead us only so far, and that's where subjective reviews are important. I have yet to see an audiophile have only spec sheets and charts in his room instead of actual equipment wink.gif .

A sub that has outstanding specs vs. another sub that has good to very good specs, may not sound any different in a home. Unless the specs are fairly lopsided, it's often difficult to judge (especially if one is involved in a blind test). So I'm not surprised that subjective reviews can seem overly positive. There are a lot of really good subwoofers on the market. I think you and I (and most people here) would be thrilled by a dozen different subs from a half-dozen different companies.

I find Jim's reviews very informative. For instance, reading his reviews on the PB1000 and SB1000 showed a fairly clear distinction. One doesn't have to throw a product under the bus to inform readers which might be best. Nor should they.

BTW, Cel, get ready for another blast of winter weather (the big storm is clearing out of California tonight and heading your way).
ahblaza likes this.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
dsrussell is online now  
post #72 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 05:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dominguez1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,909
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Upgrade aside if youre looking for the cleanest most accurate bass in that price range take a look at the Rhythmik LV12r. It also has more output than the pb1000. Youll need it in a room that size.
+1
dominguez1 is online now  
post #73 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 07:57 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,761
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

Cel: I feel Jim's response was fully justified.

I also firmly feel that both subjective an objective reviews are necessary, and both are just as valid as the other. Audio consumers, especially those that visit websites like this one, use as many reviews as they can find to help narrow down the myriad of products that are available. I always check specs on audio equipment and speakers, but my final judgement is based upon personal auditions. How does that particular piece of equipment perform in my environment versus another? Subjective? You bet. In the final analysis, we all judge subjectively. It's important to have standard specs to compare or group these products (excellent, good, average, etc.). But specs alone can lead us only so far, and that's where subjective reviews are important. I have yet to see an audiophile have only spec sheets and charts in his room instead of actual equipment wink.gif .

A sub that has outstanding specs vs. another sub that has good to very good specs, may not sound any different in a home. Unless the specs are fairly lopsided, it's often difficult to judge (especially if one is involved in a blind test). So I'm not surprised that subjective reviews can seem overly positive. There are a lot of really good subwoofers on the market. I think you and I (and most people here) would be thrilled by a dozen different subs from a half-dozen different companies.

I find Jim's reviews very informative. For instance, reading his reviews on the PB1000 and SB1000 showed a fairly clear distinction. One doesn't have to throw a product under the bus to inform readers which might be best. Nor should they.

BTW, Cel, get ready for another blast of winter weather (the big storm is clearing out of California tonight and heading your way).

I disagree that both subjective and objective reviews are equally valid. There are compelling arguments against that from the audio science/ABX people. Even our own subjective evaluations are potentially flawed, although I think personally if we are happy, what difference does it make. For instance, I've seen too many instances where, in an audio community, FOTM causes many people to provide over hyped testimonials and reviews of a product. To me, subjective reviews are very untrustworthy, even though I do consider them.

Interesting that you brought up the difference in Jim's review cited between the PB-1000 and SB-1000. Audio science tells us that there are a few reasons why that comparison could have been biased. For instance, even a 1db difference in volume output could have privileged the comparisons toward the PB-1000. A sighted evaluation can be biased because of a predilection. And then there is the unreliability of audio memory. And then I would suggest that a personal listening preference for the sound of a ported sub vs. sealed sub might have come into play as well.

So yes. Even though I do consider subjective reviews in considering audio equipment, I'm willing to concede that people that say the subjective reviews and testimonials are not credible evidence do have a reasonable perspective. In that regard, if you tone down the rhetoric in shadjy's post, look at it in the context of what he is saying as a reply Smittyfit's citing of Jim's measurements as a credible source in comparison to the more robust measurements of Chris Heinonen's review of the PB-1000, he is right. Jim's review is less credible in that regard. But shadyj could have stated in a way that wasn't so flaming. LOL

Funny thing you mention the weather. The pipes coming into my house froze last night. Fortunately, they became unfrozen after I opened the spigots for a few minutes. Close call. (phew!)

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
post #74 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 07:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,790
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

Statements by shadyj: "Also Jim Wilson's reviews are anything but credible." "He is (sic) reviews only exist to generate blurbs because he gives effusive praise to every single sub he has tried, no matter how ridiculous it is." "All he does is add on to the pile of uselessness."

This proves how little he truly knows. For the person who has read even a single one of my reviews, and posses the ability to comprehend the written word, it's painfully obvious that I note every single thing I don't like, big or small. AAMOF, there hasn't been a single product I've reviewed -- ever -- that I haven't found things like that to comment on. But only those without an agenda would see that.
ahblaza likes this.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #75 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 08:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,790
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked: 435
I decided to delete some of my last posts, in order to avoid furthering this nonsense. Enough already; if you have a compelling need to challenge my creditability take it to PM. This poor guys thread has become trash because of all the BS.
ahblaza likes this.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #76 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 09:18 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,761
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I decided to delete some of my last posts, in order to avoid furthering this nonsense. Enough already; if you have a compelling need to challenge my creditability take it to PM. This poor guys thread has become trash because of all the BS.

The OP raised the issue of the credibility of your review on the PB-1000, and so it is germane to the thread discussion. But I agree. It's best that you stay out of the discussion if you are going to treat any negative criticism of it as personal attack. If someone wants to talk directly to you about your reviews, then PM sound sounds like a good idea.
its phillip and Boxozaxu like this.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
post #77 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 09:30 AM
Member
 
djkail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I purchased the SVS PB-1000 and after 3 days it was generating a rattling sound from the driver. I was advised that it was either the driver itself or an issue with the amp. Regardless, it was sent back and I went with an Outlaw LFM-1 EX. Set me back a few extra dollars but was worth every cent. It destroys the PB-1000 in every way.

That being said, the PB-1000 is still probably the best $500 Subwoofer. For a few dollars more though you can get lower extension, variable tuning, and higher output. It's worth looking into non SVS options
djkail is offline  
post #78 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Smittyfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 307
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 25

Reference_head -> Some people have nothing better to do.

 

SnoPro700 -> Let me try and help you out.

 

The SVS PB-2000 is in a different league than the PB-1000.  It will have 75% more max output across the board, and dig a bit deeper.  However, 2 PB1000 will have more output (about 25%) and balance the sound providing a smoother response.  1 PB-2000 = $800, 2 PB-1000 = $950.  Honestly, I feel both are remarkable deals!

 

Like you, I am getting a bit older and no longer enjoy listening at extreme listening volumes.  However, I do need to feel my movies.  The single PB-1000 I am running, it easily fills my listening area with clean bass that I can also feel.  My area is large with openings to halls, kitchen and the outdoors, as well permanently opened windows.  But, the main limitation of the PB1000 is it will not put out enough output to blow your pants like a kite.  If you require that type of output, you need either something way more expensive, or something with a higher tuning point.

 

Also other experienced I've encountered that may suffice is a second hand paradigm PW2200.  That has more output than the PB1000, but does not dig as deep.  Also you might be able to get it cheaper than the PB1000, and it was a very reliable sub, I had duels for over 3 years with no problem.  I do prefer the SVS as it has much more output under 25hz and less distortion. 

 

The velodyne DLS5000 I had could put out even more output than the 2200, but again, an even higher tuning point at which you could not get anything under 25 or maybe even 30hz to be honest.

 

At the end of your day, I feel from what I read you want a musical subwoofer with decent output.... I would like to say the SB2000 but it may not fill a room your size... The PB1000 might be enough volume, but maaaaybe not clean enough or your taste... Kind of risky.. I'm almost sure 1 PB2000 will DEF satisfy you... And 2 PB1000 if clean enough for your listening requirements will be MORE than enough volume, and will have all the other benefits we discussed in prior post.

 

The LVR sub seems amazing as well... I don't think you can go wrong with any ID company... I personally just went with SVS because I feel if you factor everything in, they are the best.  (again, this is just my opinion)

Best of luck, let me know if you need more insight, details from my system/systems or listening environment specifications.  

 

Smittyfit  

Greg Ulate and ticomon like this.
Smittyfit is offline  
post #79 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 10:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,790
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

But I agree. It's best that you stay out of the discussion if you are going to treat any negative criticism of it as personal attack.

It wasn't criticism it was an attack, plain and simple, a point made even more obvious by all the comments and thumbs up my replies have garnered. Only you and shady don't see that.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #80 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 10:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Hopinater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central VA
Posts: 1,827
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Liked: 686

I have to laugh, somehow another thread got sidetracked by comments Shady made. One way or another this seems to happen quite often. I'm not saying it's all Shady's fault, I'm just saying it seems to happen. 

ahblaza, shadyJ, deepat04 and 1 others like this.
Hopinater is offline  
post #81 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 10:29 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,761
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

It wasn't criticism it was an attack, plain and simple, a point made even more obvious by all the comments and thumbs up my replies have garnered. Only you and shady don't see that.

I'm sorry. You've mistaken me for someone who wants to discuss with you your feelings about the flaming nature of shadyj's post or the fact that you feel enabled to do so by receiving thumbs up. My personal recommendation is that you should take a chill, as you already indicated you would do, and I have already stated my personal feelings about the nature of your retaliation against shadyj. There's nothing for you and me to discuss along these lines.

If you would like to address the bigger issues raised by that post of whether or not in-room measurements are valid and the credibility of subjective evaluations in terms of audio science and testing, that's fine.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
post #82 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 10:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Reference_head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,013
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

It wasn't criticism it was an attack, plain and simple, a point made even more obvious by all the comments and thumbs up my replies have garnered. Only you and shady don't see that.
Agreed.
Billy p and ahblaza like this.

Klipsch Pro Cinema KPT-904 L/C/R, Pro Cinema KPT-1201-T2 for sides and Heresy II for backs.
SVS PB13-Ultra, PB12-Plus x2, and Velodyne SMS-1 Sub EQ
SC-55 elite and B&K 200.7 S2
JVC RS-45 Projector, and Seymour CS 125” 2.35 screen
Oppo BDP-103 9 ATS Acoustic panels
Reference_head is offline  
post #83 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 12:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 4,790
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I'm sorry. You've mistaken me for someone who wants to discuss with you your feelings about the flaming nature of shadyj's post or the fact that you feel enabled to do so by receiving thumbs up. My personal recommendation is that you should take a chill, as you already indicated you would do, and I have already stated my personal feelings about the nature of your retaliation against shadyj. There's nothing for you and me to discuss along these lines.

If you would like to address the bigger issues raised by that post of whether or not in-room measurements are valid and the credibility of subjective evaluations in terms of audio science and testing, that's fine.

I'm under no illusions about who you are, or who you aren't for that matter. You have no ammunition left to further your personal agenda, all your angles are long gone. You're merely tilting at windmills now. It's time for you to move on.
ahblaza likes this.

If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite
JimWilson is online now  
post #84 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 01:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,136
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post

I have to laugh, somehow another thread got sidetracked by comments Shady made. One way or another this seems to happen quite often. I'm not saying it's all Shady's fault, I'm just saying it seems to happen. 

Lol, I hate this. I'd much rather keep debate on a technical level. I admit my criticism of Jim's reviews were 'indelicate', and that's what started this mess, but he never uses kid gloves with me, so I don't think I should have to go easy on him. Since this thread is ruined and since everyone basically understands each others positions by now, I don't see anything else of value that can be added. This thread should be locked.
shadyJ is offline  
post #85 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 01:20 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,761
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Lol, I hate this. I'd much rather keep debate on a technical level.

Well lets talk about measurements and the validity of subjective reviews. Those are the important points you made, even though you flamed out in doing it (lol). It is relevant to the discussion. Smittyfit offered in-room amateur measurements vs. the detailed measurements by one of the editors of Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, although the review was on his blog not in the publication. Given S&V's questionable measurements from their review (I agree those sound a little off), you seemed to have shared the most definitive measurements that we have, I think.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
post #86 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 01:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 1,795
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked: 511
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I disagree that both subjective and objective reviews are equally valid. There are compelling arguments against that from the audio science/ABX people. Even our own subjective evaluations are potentially flawed, although I think personally if we are happy, what difference does it make. For instance, I've seen too many instances where, in an audio community, FOTM causes many people to provide over hyped testimonials and reviews of a product. To me, subjective reviews are very untrustworthy, even though I do consider them.

Interesting that you brought up the difference in Jim's review cited between the PB-1000 and SB-1000. Audio science tells us that there are a few reasons why that comparison could have been biased. For instance, even a 1db difference in volume output could have privileged the comparisons toward the PB-1000. A sighted evaluation can be biased because of a predilection. And then there is the unreliability of audio memory. And then I would suggest that a personal listening preference for the sound of a ported sub vs. sealed sub might have come into play as well.

So yes. Even though I do consider subjective reviews in considering audio equipment, I'm willing to concede that people that say the subjective reviews and testimonials are not credible evidence do have a reasonable perspective. In that regard, if you tone down the rhetoric in shadjy's post, look at it in the context of what he is saying as a reply Smittyfit's citing of Jim's measurements as a credible source in comparison to the more robust measurements of Chris Heinonen's review of the PB-1000, he is right. Jim's review is less credible in that regard. But shadyj could have stated in a way that wasn't so flaming. LOL

Funny thing you mention the weather. The pipes coming into my house froze last night. Fortunately, they became unfrozen after I opened the spigots for a few minutes. Close call. (phew!)

Hi Cel. I am originally from Iowa, and I remember going through terrible winters back there quite some time ago. Pipes freezing, digging out one's car and warming it up, shoveling snow, ice scrapers, slipping and sliding. After getting out of the military, I went back to Iowa and said, "No more". Off to California I went smile.gif . Then there is my lady friend, originally from Wisconsin, who actually misses the snow ….

Yes, the brain is fickle when it comes to our five senses (they all work together and can create something that isn't really there), and memory escapes us rapidly. The best way to test in one's home is with an A-B switch and in the blind, but I'm afraid that's not very practical. Still, I had two subwoofers I was auditioning at the same time, and it provided me with fairly solid insight. The problem there is, did I setup everything perfectly for each sub? So even the most thoughtful test at home may have flaws. It's part and parcel of the the process. I certainly grant you that. And, of course, one's home environment itself may enhance or detract, but at least everything is on even footing.

Specs allow us only to know what the equipment is capable of. Our rooms and our senses supply us the rest of the information (flawed or not). Taken together, we make our decisions, but that's usually after we have read many professional and amateur reviews.

I review many of the items I've purchased on Amazon, including subwoofers. It is a way to help inform the masses (who don't frequent forums) of my impressions, good and bad. Certainly, people can take them for what they are worth. When I read these types of reviews, I search for complaints as well as what they like, and find complaints can be far more informative than the five-star "best in the world" reviews. We each use a filter when reading any review, professional or amateur. It allows us to get a more solid consensus. And once anyone publish a review, it is now fair game for criticism. Some criticism is perfectly understandable and valid. Other criticism is not. Others still, seem to have an agenda. Heck, I've had some extremely nasty comments on some of my Amazon reviews. Some were so angry, it felt like I must have shot their dog. And while I do these reviews to help people make more informed decisions, I am also in some people's gunsights. That is precisely what I see here, not only on Jim's reviews, but also attacks on two different subwoofer companies. So one has to ask oneself, what is the real agenda here? Is it to inform? Or is it to come out with guns blazing and be the center of attention?

One last thing. I read Chris Heinonen's review and found it to be very informative and well-written. I just don't see one being less informative or less credible than the other. We have two gentlemen giving up their time and trying their best to inform people and help them make a decision. Bravo to both reviewers. Yeah, it's a thankless job, but I'm glad they are willing to do it.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
dsrussell is online now  
post #87 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 02:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,136
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Well lets talk about measurements and the validity of subjective reviews. Those are the important points you made, even though you flamed out in doing it (lol). It is relevant to the discussion. Smittyfit offered in-room amateur measurements vs. the detailed measurements by one of the editors of Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, although the review was on his blog not in the publication. Given S&V's questionable measurements from their review (I agree those sound a little off), you seemed to have shared the most definitive measurements that we have, I think.

Gene at Audioholics and Brent from S&V got into it one time when Gene ask about some of the inconsistencies from Brent's measurements. I guess Brent can be a bit defensive. Someone ought to put together a table of all of S&V's measurements to demonstrate some of those inconsistencies. It wasn't only with some of the SVS subs measurements, there were also some weird results from some Velodyne subs as I recall. That being said, some of the S&V measurements do corroborate with what Ricci has measured and have also matched manufacture measurements. I think part of the problem is with the CEA protocols themselves.
shadyJ is offline  
post #88 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 02:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jack D Ripper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Burpelson Air Force Base
Posts: 1,136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoPro700 View Post

Well I am glad this thread was started as I am strongly considering the PB1000 as well as anything in its price point.
Also due to the fact I couldnt justify $800 on the PB2000. At least not right now.. The room that will "house" the subwoofer is 23x23 with 8ft high ceilings. I am basically looking for the cleanest sounding most accurate bass I can get. Im my old age (25) I am now going for SQ over output specially since my gf will be veiwing movies with me so having great SQ is more crucial then sheer loudness. I also love the fact that I could uprgrade to an PB2000 down the road if I ever felt the need at little to no cost. I am also really drawn to their "simpler" design of sub and port facing foward. Im not one for subs that face down.

My only real concern is I listen to alot of music (when I am home by myself). Seems like the SVS subs are more geared for reproducing sounds from movies then being musical?

 

What you get with the PB-1000 is the deepest, flattest bass of any subwoofer at its price point.  (Saying that kind of thing is always risky, because someone might start selling a new subwoofer that beats it, but I doubt it has happened.)  So if you listen to recorded pipe organs, and only have $500, and want to get the lowest notes possible, the PB-1000 is for you.  If you want louder, and are willing to give up deep bass, you might want to consider the Premier Acoustic PA-150.  But it is trading deep bass for louder.  See:

 

http://www.audioholics.com/how-to-shop/500-subwoofer-roundup

 

None of this has to do with the idea of home theater or music; the function is the same in both cases, to accurately reproduce the signal.  But with a $500 budget, there are trade-offs.  The SVS PB-1000 is absolutely the subwoofer I would buy if I had only $500 (and were not buying used), because I want a deep, flat frequency response, and do not want the bass exaggerated as many people do who turn their subwoofers way up above a flat response.  For them, they will need a subwoofer than can play louder than what I need, if we are using the same or similar rooms.

 

If you stick to $500 and do not get the SVS PB-1000, you will be giving up deep bass and a very flat response for whatever virtues your choice has (assuming you don't simply pick a bad value subwoofer, and there are plenty of them).

 

 

But if you have the money for a higher model, you can get a better subwoofer.  So think carefully about what you want, and what you are willing to pay for it.  If you buy a better subwoofer than you need, you will only be out the difference in cost between it and whatever the cheapest one is that would be good enough.  And you will be ready for a larger room than your current one (though in your case, you have a quite large room already).  Whether you are planning on moving in the future or not is a factor in what sort of decision you should make.  If you will be putting it in a bigger room later, you probably will need a more capable subwoofer.  In your case, with your big room, you might want to go for a PB-2000 (or an even higher model), as a room with the dimensions you say is 4232 cubic feet, which is a quite large volume.  If you had the money for it, an Ultra would be better.  (You can save money by going with the approximately equivalent cylinder versions, which also have the virtue of being much lighter and an easier shape to grab onto, so they are much, much easier to move, and they also take up less floor space.)

ticomon and Smittyfit like this.

God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.
Jack D Ripper is offline  
post #89 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 04:36 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cel4145's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 11,761
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 250 Post(s)
Liked: 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

Yes, the brain is fickle when it comes to our five senses (they all work together and can create something that isn't really there), and memory escapes us rapidly. The best way to test in one's home is with an A-B switch and in the blind, but I'm afraid that's not very practical. Still, I had two subwoofers I was auditioning at the same time, and it provided me with fairly solid insight. The problem there is, did I setup everything perfectly for each sub? So even the most thoughtful test at home may have flaws. It's part and parcel of the the process. I certainly grant you that. And, of course, one's home environment itself may enhance or detract, but at least everything is on even footing.

Yep. I doubt my own ability to make controlled evaluations of audio equipment even in my home that would withstand objective scrutiny, based on what the equipment testing guys tell us. But ultimately that doesn't matter because it's about being satisfied. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

Specs allow us only to know what the equipment is capable of. Our rooms and our senses supply us the rest of the information (flawed or not). Taken together, we make our decisions, but that's usually after we have read many professional and amateur reviews.

The thing is, though, that good measurements of a subwoofer can tell us a lot about how it will perform. Enough that I rely on the measurements quite a bit more that say with speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

One last thing. I read Chris Heinonen's review and found it to be very informative and well-written. I just don't see one being less informative or less credible than the other. We have two gentlemen giving up their time and trying their best to inform people and help them make a decision. Bravo to both reviewers. Yeah, it's a thankless job, but I'm glad they are willing to do it.

Certainly the subjective listening tests of either review are no more or less valid--they are subjective and it's however one wants to weigh that kind of thing in evaluating reviews. But Chris's measurements are outdoor groundplane and include a lot more information. As you may know, outdoor groundplane is the golden standard for testing because (a) it can get us closer to seeing the sub's native response and (b) it's accepted and somewhat replicable, so we can compare the measurements against other subwoofers (such as on data-bass.com) more easily and with more confidence. Then Chris's extra measurements reveal something we haven't seen any of the other PB-1000 reviews--the high levels of distortion once the sub was pushed to 100db. So yeah. If you know how to read the measurements, there's definitely a lot more information there.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | modified Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
Desktop: CBM-170 SE | SVS SB-1000 | Audio-GD NFB-11 | HK 3390
Headphone & Portable HE-400 | K612 Pro | HP150 | DX50 | E12
cel4145 is offline  
post #90 of 123 Old 03-03-2014, 04:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
drewTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Anaheim Hills, CA
Posts: 1,934
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 98
I can't tell if OP likes his SVS.
dagdrivaren likes this.
drewTT is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs , Hsu Research , Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb2000 , Xs30 , Xv15 , Outlaw Audio Lfm 1 Ex
Gear in this thread - Sb1000 by PriceGrabber.com



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off