Opinions....PB2000/XV15, or XS30 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Assuming one were willing to spend the $800 or $1150 on either of these subs in a 2525 cubic foot room, how would everyone vote?  I find the PB2000 and XV15 too similar to worry over the difference, so it is really a comparison of an $800 ported sub vs the sealed dual 15".  The more research I do seems to indicate that I should still get some reasonable room gain with the XS30.

 

Finalizing my initial purchase decision, it comes down to these two options for a permanent addition to my home audio setup.


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Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

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post #2 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 10:22 AM
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Where's the poll? My vote is 2 XV15's or 2 XS15's if you prefer seal with room gain in your small room.
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post #3 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 11:40 AM
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Bear is this a hypothetical question or actual poll...if it's the latter you'll need to set it that way.

Just saying...smile.gif

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post #4 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 12:11 PM
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Maybe the reaction audio dual 15 for $900.

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post #5 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 01:47 PM
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Bear I was just reading a post by ahblaza in the PSA thread discussing the XV15 vs. the XS30. He has owned both and his conclusion was he would go with dual XV15s over a single XS30. Based on that I assume he would take a single XS30 over a single XV15 but I don't want to speak for him so you may want to read his post, it has good first hand information that directly applies to your question.

 

FWIW I agree with you, I think you might very well get some room gain based on your stated size of the room, but how much gain I don't know.  I think I would look at the XS30. 

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post #6 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 02:10 PM
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From personal experience. I would take one xs30 over one xv15. But 2xv15's over 1 xs30

There really is nothing like Duals

I have had a single xs30 and xv15 in my room. Xs30 was superior. But get whichever one you will DEFINITELY have a pair if

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post #7 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I can only fit one large sub.  I can place a small one nearfield to assist with room smoothing...my top two options for this will be either the PB1000 or SB1000 due to size and price.  I am using my old Polk PSW110 at the moment, which is doing a great job of filling in a null that is resulting from my single sub placed in its only possible placement option.

 

I suppose a clearer question would be one PB2000 vs one XS30.  I was lumping the PB and XV in a similar category.  I am leaning strongly to the XS30, but approval might be difficult.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

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post #8 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

Bear is this a hypothetical question or actual poll...if it's the latter you'll need to set it that way.

Just saying...smile.gif

Not familiar with how to do this if I wanted to, sorry.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

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post #9 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 03:29 PM
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Then in that case if the means are there go single xs30

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post #10 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Not familiar with how to do this if I wanted to, sorry.

That option is available when you start a new thread just scroll down and open the link...if that is what you'd like to pursue... ask one of the mods to help you set it up.

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post #11 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 05:52 PM
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You said your room is 2525 cubic feet. No way to make room for a 2nd sub other than behind the couch? How about SVS cylinder subs?

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post #12 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Nope.  This is our main living room.  Between a fireplace, most of the front wall covered by custom built in bookshelves, an entry door, a walkway behind our couch into the house/room from the front door, two French door openings, a stairwell, and a normal doorway, there is only one open corner, and no other location to place a giant box while staying married.  I will be fine with using a smaller sub just for smoothing though..I don't need the headroom.  As good of a job as my whimpy little polk did with smoothing, I am sure something like a pb1000 or sb1000 would work wonders alongside my main sub(limited to 15" width in nearfield location)


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

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post #13 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Well I can only fit one large sub.  I can place a small one nearfield to assist with room smoothing...my top two options for this will be either the PB1000 or SB1000 due to size and price.  I am using my old Polk PSW110 at the moment, which is doing a great job of filling in a null that is resulting from my single sub placed in its only possible placement option.

I suppose a clearer question would be one PB2000 vs one XS30.  I was lumping the PB and XV in a similar category.  I am leaning strongly to the XS30, but approval might be difficult.
Are you planning on returning the PB2000? What about a XS30 up front and a XS15 nearfield? I would stick with the same alignment and not mix ported/sealed. Not saying it can not be done but it can definitely introduce more headaches.


Whatever you do buy enough subwoofer that will keep ya from upgrading after 2mo. I guess I will go ahead and say I told ya so. wink.gif
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post #14 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


Are you planning on returning the PB2000? What about a XS30 up front and a XS15 nearfield? I would stick with the same alignment and not mix ported/sealed. Not saying it can not be done but it can definitely introduce more headaches.


Whatever you do buy enough subwoofer that will keep ya from upgrading after 2mo. I guess I will go ahead and say I told ya so. wink.gif

If I pull the trigger on the XS30 it will be instead of the PB2000.  Just finalizing my initial purchase decision, I want to start with the sub that I will keep indefinitely.  XS15 is too large to fit nerfield.  So If I make the change, I am starting to think the sb1000 will be the best option to place nearfield for smoothing while keeping the cost down since I am not after output.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

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post #15 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

If I pull the trigger on the XS30 it will be instead of the PB2000.  Just finalizing my initial purchase decision, I want to start with the sub that I will keep indefinitely.  XS15 is too large to fit nerfield.  So If I make the change, I am starting to think the sb1000 will be the best option to place nearfield for smoothing while keeping the cost down since I am not after output.

The obvious choice for you seems to be to go with dual SB-2000s. Try one up front and one behind the couch. If that's not enough for you, then you could colocate the two (stack them) up front and go for another SB-2000 behind the couch later on. Colocating give you extra SPL benefits over having the subs separated. Since you aren't after max output, I would bet on the dual SB-2000s being more than plenty since one will be located nearfield. If you read Ricci's description in his Audioholics review of one SB12 in his 4,000 cubic ft room, it did pretty well from 4 meters away. Dual SB-2000s should be excellent in your size room.

I seem to remember someone saying that they preferred the SQ of the SB12 to the XS15, so this could work out well for you in terms of overall SQ. And this way, everything would match. Keep in mind that the SB-2000s will probably tend to have a little different sound than the PB-2000 because of the difference in the bass being produced due to the port interaction around the tuning point. Sealed has a bit cleaner sound to me, although both sound good in their own way.

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post #16 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

If I pull the trigger on the XS30 it will be instead of the PB2000.  Just finalizing my initial purchase decision, I want to start with the sub that I will keep indefinitely.  XS15 is too large to fit nerfield.  So If I make the change, I am starting to think the sb1000 will be the best option to place nearfield for smoothing while keeping the cost down since I am not after output.

True but you do not want to limit the headroom of the XS30...the SB1000 will be out of headroom before the XS30 is halfway. That would be a horrible combination. If you are not after output then why not keep your current setup? What exactly is wrong with it if you do not need more output?
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post #17 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

True but you do not want to limit the headroom of the XS30...the SB1000 will be out of headroom before the XS30 is halfway. That would be a horrible combination. If you are not after output then why not keep your current setup? What exactly is wrong with it if you do not need more output?

He needs the 2nd sub to fill in a null.

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post #18 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

He needs the 2nd sub to fill in a null.

I know that Mr. Obvious...lmao

He has a psw110 that filled the null...his graph looks good, why change if output is not of concern?
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post #19 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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True but you do not want to limit the headroom of the XS30...the SB1000 will be out of headroom before the XS30 is halfway. That would be a horrible combination. If you are not after output then why not keep your current setup? What exactly is wrong with it if you do not need more output?

Well, this is a somewhat permanent purchase, so I am after the best value for a long term item in my audio setup.  The XS30 should extend a lot lower and offer much greater output over 30Hz.  This is what I mean by not needing more output...that the sub I place nearfield for smoothing does not need to add lots and lots of output.  I can keep the gain lower since it is nearfield and use it mainly to fill the bad null that I have centered at 50Hz.  Of course, perhaps the XS30 will have a different response in room.  Will most likely be quite some time before I change the second sub...the Polk will have to fill in for now.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

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post #20 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I know that Mr. Obvious...lmao

He has a psw110 that filled the null...his graph looks good, why change if output is not of concern?

It's a PSW110. LOL

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post #21 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 07:05 PM
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It's a PSW110. LOL

Ok ok...that is a good point. smile.gif
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post #22 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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It's a PSW110. LOL

I can tell you secretly want to buy it...flat to 38 Hz!!!


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Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

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post #23 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 08:04 PM
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I can tell you secretly want to buy it...flat to 38 Hz!!!

LOL

I got a 10" ported Mirage Prestige S10 sub that's solid to 30hz that is sitting in my office in the corner, not even being used. If you lived near me, I'd sell it to you cheap. LOL

Funny thing was that the Mirage Prestige S10/Energy VSW10 (same subs) was considered an AVS best buy for music a few years back at $300-$350. The SB-1000 I use now is much better in SQ. That's why I encouraged you look at the SB-2000 option. If you do the math by looking at the short term and long term averages of the SB12 vs the PB12, 3 SB-2000s with 2 colocated and one nearfield will provide more headroom and perhaps even deeper extension than your PB-2000, it will eliminate your null problem, and will provide better SQ. I used to run an Outlaw EX, so I'm very familiar with what those large 12" ported ID subs can do, and I wouldn't hesitate to go the SB-2000 route in your size room. Because all the subs would be the same type, you would have the choice of gain matching or level matching them.

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post #24 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input, I love to hear differing viewpoints.  However I am limited to two subs, and the single XS30 is pushing my budget, and only because of the extreme output advantage that it holds along with deeper extension that make me feel it is worth it.  I won't be doing anything as far as a second sub goes for  while, so maybe I will come up with a new idea by then.  But at this point it is limited to a 15"wide or smaller sub placed nearfield.


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Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

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post #25 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 08:30 PM
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You keep saying "nearfield" but how close is it to you? And how far away is your PB-2000?

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post #26 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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The pb is in the front corner, about 13' from the center of the MLP, which is a u shaped sectional.  The sectional is about 15" out from the right wall due to a radiator.  The nearfield placement is right beside the couch between it and the wall, but probably 5' from the center of the couch.


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post #27 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 09:19 PM
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You are sitting pretty close. Have you taken SPL measurements at the maximum volumes you like to listen to your system? Do you know that you need the "extreme output advantage" of the XS30, or are you just following the trend on AVS that "more sub is better?" There are many, many people here that think that dual lesser subs are much better than one big sub, as long as you have enough output for your needs. Is your goal to buy the biggest sub you can? Or is it to design the best audio setup that is loud enough yet sounds the best? There's a point at which buying more SPL output does nothing for your setup if you have enough SPL for your listening needs.

Next, when people talk about dual subs here it's not the same as running dual mismatched subs. Understand it is recommended to either gain match or level match your subs in a dual sub setup. Gain matching is not going to work for two subs of unequal performance unless the lesser sub already meets your SPL needs; otherwise, it will limit your setup. Level matching is a little bit different because a nearfield sub will be turned down more, but depending on the distance, it still could be a limiting factor.

So what I'm getting at is make sure you aren't just looking to buy the biggest sub you can, but rather making sure you are indeed optimizing your setup for your listening needs. More SPL than the PB-2000 may not be what you need here. Figure that out first smile.gif

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post #28 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I think it is true that I do not need more SPL than what the PB delivers.  The XS  is appealing because of the lower extension, and that fact that it seems like a more future proof option.  The PB fits my needs now, but what about in a year, or two, or five?  $350 does not seem like a lot of money for lower extension and more than double the output over 30 Hz if I ever want or need it.  The footprint is about the same, which works for me as I am not willing to go any larger.  I just want to feel like I have the right sub that I will be happy for the next 5-10 years.

 

I had no plans on running duals until I graphed the response and discovered a 10-15 dB null at 50 Hz.  Plopped the old polk down, and boom, flat 38-60 Hz and filled the null nicely with no eq.  The closer placement allowed less gain.  That's why I am thinking down the road, a decent rather than lousy sub(i.e. maybe a sb1000) placed here would work fairly well as long as I am not shooting for 120dB.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #29 of 51 Old 03-01-2014, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

I just want to feel like I have the right sub that I will be happy for the next 5-10 years.

You have posted 789 times since you joined in December. You are not going to be happy with whatever you get for five years if you hang around here tongue.gifsmile.gif

Meanwhile, the XS30 will be limited by the SB-1000 if you level match. You won't get to enjoy all that extra headroom.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
HT: Energy RC-50, RC-LCR, Veritas VS Surrounds | Dual CHT SS 18.1s | Denon AVR-888 | Dayton SA1000 | Antimode 8033C
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post #30 of 51 Old 03-02-2014, 03:40 AM
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bear if your from Jersey maybe I can bring an xs30 to your house or you cay come here an give a listen.

Panasonic 65" plasma*

Denon 4520* 

PSB T45* PSB B15* PSB C60*

Dual PSA XS30* Dual PSA XS15se*

Squeezbox*

Niles ZR-6 6 Source, 6 room Audio Reciever*

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