Possible problem with SVS PB12-NSD just delivered. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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hey guys,

As many of you know, I got my new SVS PB12-NSD on Friday. I just hooked it up and was re-going through the Audyssey set-up calibration.

As a reminder:

Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR805
Front L/R: Polk Audio RTi8
Center: Polk Audio CSi5
Surround R/L: Polk Audio Monitor 40
Surround Back R/L: Polk Audio FXiA6 Bipole/Dipole
Subwoofer: Moving from Polk Audio PSW505 to SVS PB12-NSD

I have initial set-up the sub as SVS has recommended in the packaging:

Gain to 12 o clock
Phase control to 0
Low Pass set to Disable
Auto/On switch set to Auto

Here is what I am experiencing.

When going through the Audyssey MultEQ Set-up the PSW505 originally the subwoofer was very boomy and bassy when it came to listening to the subwoofer channel. When I am running this with the SVS PB12-NSD it sounds very dull and dim when it's in the listening mode for the Sub. Here is a picture of my front set-up.

While, I havent watched a BluRay yet, I have watched HDTV in Dolby Digital and the sub sounds very weak. I have it connected to my Onkyo 805 using an LFE cable to the LFE in on the subwoofer.

I was expecting a lot more bigger bass impact from this sub from the recommendations I received on here, but I am having difficulty getting it.

Is there possibly something wrong with the sub?
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post #2 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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These are the recommended levels from Audyssey based on 3 seating positions:

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post #4 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acousticality View Post

These are the recommended levels from Audyssey based on 3 seating positions:

In retrospect with my Polk Audio PSW505 in the same position the Audyssey set-up recommended -18 dB for the subwoofer channel (the lowest the setup will allow).
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post #5 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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54 views and no replies? anyone?
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post #6 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 12:59 PM
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Throw in a BD, broadcast TV even HDTV often has very weak bass. Also is it weak everywhere or just in your main seating location?

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #7 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 01:00 PM
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Try a bluray. I recently bought a pc13 ultra and was disappointed in it when I first tested it with my roku, dolby digital. I then plugged my phone in and had to play it way above reference level to get the sub to work at all.

Then I tried a bluray and it literally scared me! Others may chime in to explain why the levels may be so weak on other devices, but since mine is strictly bluray it wasn't a big deal for me.
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post #8 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 01:03 PM
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Are you used to boomy low end sub before? Also it's not supposed to blow the windows out when a pin is dropped.

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post #9 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post

Are you used to boomy low end sub before? Also it's not supposed to blow the windows out when a pin is dropped.
Comparing on equal footings. Playing PS4 games, watching TV, etc. I'm just surprised that the difference isn't that big considering how everyone downed the PSW-505 so much on here. I wasn't expecting blow the windows out, but the Audyssey EQ has set the Subwoofer volume at a much high level output -4.5 dB, vs. -18dB with the Polk PSW505. The Pol PSW505 has a 300W BASH Amp. The SVS has a 400W Sledge Amp. Even during the calibration the test tones sounded very muted and shallow with no real bass to them. it just makes me wonder if something is wrong with the SVS subwoofer.
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post #10 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 02:03 PM
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The PSW505 may have sounded louder because it will generate a lot more distortion. Harmonic distortion will always sound a lot louder than the fundamental where bass is concerned. Cleaner bass typically means quieter bass. Another thing is, the SVS's strong point was clean deep bass. It didn't have a lot of mid bass output. I wouldn't be surprised if the Polk has a substantially greater amount of 50 to 60 Hz output. Given that there is just a lot more 50 to 60 Hz content out there than 20 Hz content, the Polk may sound like a more powerful sub. However the SVS sub is a technically superior performing subwoofer with a more linear response and less distorted output.
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post #11 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 02:04 PM
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However the new SVS's seem to operate differently on the gain/volume control- on my SB Ultra 13 it's pretty close to max, compared to my old 750W BASH amp that was probably one maker in from minimum

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post #12 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 02:08 PM
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When i first got mine it seemed like the old sub produced louder base. I kinda had the same reqction. With blurays you can feel it more than hear it. Ay first this disappointed me but qfter a couple of movies i could now never go back. I think most of us are not famioiar with what base should be, the svs has transformed me to a beleiver that base should be felt, not listened to.
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post #13 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 02:11 PM
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TV is often dull for bass. Try a couple of the four to five star movies in this list to get a sense of deep extended bass: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/the-new-master-list-of-bass-in-movies-with-frequency-charts

Make sure that you don't have your front mains set to large, or whatever the equivalent is of letting the sub take over the bass from the mains.

-4.5db seems a pretty good match up for the signal to the sub amp. You could always bump that up a few dp on the receiver if you want it to run a little hot.

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post #14 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkpenguin View Post

When i first got mine it seemed like the old sub produced louder base. I kinda had the same reqction. With blurays you can feel it more than hear it. Ay first this disappointed me but qfter a couple of movies i could now never go back. I think most of us are not famioiar with what base should be, the svs has transformed me to a beleiver that base should be felt, not listened to.

Yep. That happens with a lot of people. As shadyj pointed out, a lot of people are used to hearing distortion from their sub. Then once they get used to the new sub a little, they recognize how different it is.

Then with movies, you really notice it right away because the sub will likely put out good 20hz bass that wasn't experienced before.

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post #15 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 02:15 PM
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One more thing. The fact that the PSW505 was set to -18db likely means you had the gain turned up on the PSW505 too high for a good match with the receiver output. The problem is that if that is the lowest setting Audyssey can do on your receiver, you could have had it set really hot such that the sub was never properly matched the way that the SVS is now.

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post #16 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 02:20 PM
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yup sounds he's used to OTT bass...someone drops a feather onto a pillow and BOOM biggrin.gif

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post #17 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 02:44 PM
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I recently received a pb2000 ,I also have the same receiver,and speakers you have.At first I was not impressed ,followed some the advice on the forum to adjust my set up and it now shakes the room.Don't worry, good luck
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post #18 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

One more thing. The fact that the PSW505 was set to -18db likely means you had the gain turned up on the PSW505 too high for a good match with the receiver output. The problem is that if that is the lowest setting Audyssey can do on your receiver, you could have had it set really hot such that the sub was never properly matched the way that the SVS is now.
The Gain (Volume knob) on the PSW505 was turned to 1/4" maximum. I checked that. I have the Gain knob on the SVS turned up to 12 o clock (half way) as instructed by SVS.
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post #19 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jmcnatt View Post

I recently received a pb2000 ,I also have the same receiver,and speakers you have.At first I was not impressed ,followed some the advice on the forum to adjust my set up and it now shakes the room.Don't worry, good luck
What changes did you make?
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post #20 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acousticality View Post

The Gain (Volume knob) on the PSW505 was turned to 1/4" maximum. I checked that. I have the Gain knob on the SVS turned up to 12 o clock (half way) as instructed by SVS.

The knob location doesn't tell anyone anything. It's what Audyssey comes up with that matters. You want the gain set such that Audyssey ends up close to 0db. That way the gain on the sub is best optimized for the signal coming from the receiver (so -4.5 db is OK) without the receiver having to attenuate its signal a bunch. Given that every room is different, and everyone sits at different distances from their sub, what the gain knob is set to will vary to achieve that goal with Audyssey. So 12 o'clock SVS is giving you is just a general all around "try this" setting.

Then if Audyssey's lowest setting is -18db, like it set for the PSW505, could be you could have turned the gain down further and it would still be -18db. Which is why I said it could have just been running hot.

Also, if you just got it setup today, give the sub some time to break in, and yourself sometime to adjust before fretting about this too much. I am one of those who do believe that a sub will sound a bit better with some break in time (not everyone does).

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post #21 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The knob location doesn't tell anyone anything. It's what Audyssey comes up with that matters. You want the gain set such that Audyssey ends up close to 0db. That way the gain on the sub is best optimized for the signal coming from the receiver (so -4.5 db is OK) without the receiver having to attenuate its signal a bunch. Given that every room is different, and everyone sits at different distances from their sub, what the gain knob is set to will vary to achieve that goal with Audyssey. So 12 o'clock SVS is giving you is just a general all around "try this" setting.

Then if Audyssey's lowest setting is -18db, like it set for the PSW505, could be you could have turned the gain down further and it would still be -18db. Which is why I said it could have just been running hot.

Also, if you just got it setup today, give the sub some time to break in, and yourself sometime to adjust before fretting about this too much. I am one of those who do believe that a sub will sound a bit better with some break in time (not everyone does).
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The knob location doesn't tell anyone anything. It's what Audyssey comes up with that matters. You want the gain set such that Audyssey ends up close to 0db. That way the gain on the sub is best optimized for the signal coming from the receiver (so -4.5 db is OK) without the receiver having to attenuate its signal a bunch. Given that every room is different, and everyone sits at different distances from their sub, what the gain knob is set to will vary to achieve that goal with Audyssey. So 12 o'clock SVS is giving you is just a general all around "try this" setting.

Then if Audyssey's lowest setting is -18db, like it set for the PSW505, could be you could have turned the gain down further and it would still be -18db. Which is why I said it could have just been running hot.

Also, if you just got it setup today, give the sub some time to break in, and yourself sometime to adjust before fretting about this too much. I am one of those who do believe that a sub will sound a bit better with some break in time (not everyone does).
I should have said 1/4 of the maximum, not 1/4" but anyways....
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post #22 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 03:40 PM
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I should have said 1/4 of the maximum, not 1/4" but anyways....

If you do choose to hook the PSW505 back up and rerun Audyssey, be sure to turn that down. Try it half way up.

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post #23 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 03:42 PM
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Try this song off youtube. Has some deep ultra low notes that will make a room vibrate if you turn it up.

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post #24 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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If you do choose to hook the PSW505 back up and rerun Audyssey, be sure to turn that down. Try it half way up.
I just sold the PSW505 to my buddy for $50.
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post #25 of 54 Old 03-02-2014, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
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These are the recommended levels from Audyssey based on 3 seating positions:



Digital cable has weak bass. I would manually raise the sub channel to 0. You can always dial it back for blu rays. I calibrate my subs so the avr sets them -6, then manually adjust the avr sub trim to 0. That would be equivalent to running 6db hot which is perfect for hd cable. smile.gif
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post #26 of 54 Old 03-03-2014, 12:40 AM
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Turn it up! smile.gif

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post #27 of 54 Old 03-03-2014, 01:34 AM
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heh I always run my sub hot -- although not so sure any more since I added a second sub, LOL. I thought I ran YPAO again and it said 0 but I could be wrong.
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post #28 of 54 Old 03-03-2014, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acousticality View Post

but the Audyssey EQ has set the Subwoofer volume at a much high level output -4.5 dB, vs. -18dB with the Polk PSW505.

This tells me that you had the volume knob on the PSW505 very high, hence Audyssey set the trim at -18dB.

Anyway, try turning up the volume knob on the SVS. It's currently at 12 o'clock right? Try pushing it to 2 o'clock. Then rerun Audyssey.
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post #29 of 54 Old 03-03-2014, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

This tells me that you had the volume knob on the PSW505 very high, hence Audyssey set the trim at -18dB.

Anyway, try turning up the volume knob on the SVS. It's currently at 12 o'clock right? Try pushing it to 2 o'clock. Then rerun Audyssey.

All that will do is cause audyssey to pull the sub trim back even further and you will gain nothing. AVR correction softwsre shoots for a 75db calibration no matter where the sub amp gain is set. The correct way to get more bass is do what I posted in my previous post. smile.gif
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post #30 of 54 Old 03-03-2014, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

All that will do is cause audyssey to pull the sub trim back even further and you will gain nothing. AVR correction softwsre shoots for a 75db calibration no matter where the sub amp gain is set. The correct way to get more bass is do what I posted in my previous post. smile.gif

Agreed. Do what basshead said smile.gif

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