old quality sub vs new subs - AVS Forum

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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

pias's Avatar pias
04:53 PM Liked: 10
post #1 of 15
03-02-2014 | Posts: 20
Joined: Jun 2007
From the recent article by Brent Butterworth " the best of today’s inexpensive subwoofers can outperform many of the top models from 15 or 20 years ago. " This quote has pushed me to post this question, discounting the heavy hitters, Seaton, JTR, ect., where does my Paradigm Servo 15 stack up against the PSA, Rythmiks, ect. of todays AV world? I have enjoyed the S-15 since 1998 and it is still great for music but in my current room (sealed,dedicated, 2700 cu ft) it falls short in the movie dept. The gist of my question is, where in the food chain and what models in the PSA-Rythmik line ups will best my old friend? I like my movies but listen to some music most everyday. Music is important. Looking forward to hearing some thoughts and opinions.
qguy's Avatar qguy
06:55 PM Liked: 61
post #2 of 15
03-02-2014 | Posts: 935
Joined: Dec 2008
I have no experience with Paradigm subs, but I did have a late 90's M&K V-75 Mk2, it is a sealed sub with a 12 inch woofer. I upgraded to a Rythmik F15 and the Rythmik run circles around the M&K and the Rythmik aint exactly a new model. For music in that size room, I would go with 2 sealed F15HP or go for a single FV15HP (ported) if you want your movies to come alive.
wlhungdude's Avatar wlhungdude
06:55 PM Liked: 65
post #3 of 15
03-02-2014 | Posts: 613
Joined: Dec 2006
It's probably safe to say that your sub doesn't perform like it did when new. How much, if any, degredation has occured, is a guess, at best. I would think it would be gradual, short of complete failure, and you may have adjusted to it just as gradually. Therefore, even if you were to compare it's original, brand new, specs, to those of a brand new, 'modern' sub, it's still not an equal comparison.
You have already stated you aren't happy with your current sub's performance. What is your budget for a new sub? How big is the room you want to fill with new subwoofer goodness, and what is your 'real' budget? Any size or WAF limitations? Willing to DIY?
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar Bill Fitzmaurice
08:25 PM Liked: 1684
post #4 of 15
03-02-2014 | Posts: 10,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pias View Post

I have enjoyed the S-15 since 1998 .
It was one of the better subs of that time and still holds its own against similarly sized and powered subs today. It probably could use help with the deep LFE content of today's movies. I'd add another of similar size and power.
pias's Avatar pias
05:35 AM Liked: 10
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03-03-2014 | Posts: 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

It was one of the better subs of that time and still holds its own against similarly sized and powered subs today. It probably could use help with the deep LFE content of today's movies. I'd add another of similar size and power.
Bill, I believe you nailed it concerning the LFE of todays movies. If memory serves me, (probably not) I think Paradigm claimed the sub would go to 17hz. The sub runs out of gas and authority well before that.
pias's Avatar pias
05:36 AM Liked: 10
post #6 of 15
03-03-2014 | Posts: 20
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WHD, Room is 24x14x8 - No WAF, my room-my way( she will have a voice in budget) - real budget, I would prefer 1100 to 1600 but budget is just a function of time, in other words, if I have to save up longer, I will . No DIY. I would try to incorporate my sub as the second sub for smoothing and head room concerns.
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar Bill Fitzmaurice
06:23 AM Liked: 1684
post #7 of 15
03-03-2014 | Posts: 10,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pias View Post

Paradigm claimed the sub would go to 17hz. The sub runs out of gas and authority well before that.
Not necessarily. If it's perfectly flat to 17Hz you'll still perceive it as being thin in the low end unless you're really cranking it. To understand why look at equal loudness curves. You can use EQ to compensate for that, but EQ eats up driver excursion and amp power like mad. A second sub will give you more power and excursion, allowing you to fatten the first octave with EQ without overly stressing either sub, or to run at high enough levels that the low end will sound and feel full without EQ.
jchong's Avatar jchong
07:24 AM Liked: 32
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03-03-2014 | Posts: 864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pias View Post

WHD, Room is 24x14x8 - No WAF, my room-my way( she will have a voice in budget) - real budget, I would prefer 1100 to 1600 but budget is just a function of time, in other words, if I have to save up longer, I will . No DIY. I would try to incorporate my sub as the second sub for smoothing and head room concerns.

For that budget I'd say the Rythmik FV15HP.
pias's Avatar pias
06:24 PM Liked: 10
post #9 of 15
03-03-2014 | Posts: 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Not necessarily. If it's perfectly flat to 17Hz you'll still perceive it as being thin in the low end unless you're really cranking it. To understand why look at equal loudness curves. You can use EQ to compensate for that, but EQ eats up driver excursion and amp power like mad. A second sub will give you more power and excursion, allowing you to fatten the first octave with EQ without overly stressing either sub, or to run at high enough levels that the low end will sound and feel full without EQ.
Makes perfect sense. Thank you.
pias's Avatar pias
06:30 PM Liked: 10
post #10 of 15
03-03-2014 | Posts: 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

For that budget I'd say the Rythmik FV15HP.
Why? I'm open to any suggestions .
pias's Avatar pias
06:44 PM Liked: 10
post #11 of 15
03-03-2014 | Posts: 20
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Maybe I should rephrase my question. Using PSA & Rythmik as examples( because I follow those threads daily) I would chose the xs-30 and the F25 respectively. Would these two equal or best my Servo-15? If the answer is yes, is there another sub in either line up that would do the same? We're not counting the Triax. The FV15HP would more than enough match up but I am used to the "sealed" sound. If there is such a thing.
jchong's Avatar jchong
07:17 PM Liked: 32
post #12 of 15
03-03-2014 | Posts: 864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pias View Post

Why? I'm open to any suggestions .

You can refer to the review by Josh Ricci to get a sense of its performance.

I see above that you prefer a sealed sub. If so, then perhaps the FV15HP might not be your cup of tea.
jchong's Avatar jchong
07:21 PM Liked: 32
post #13 of 15
03-03-2014 | Posts: 864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pias View Post

If the answer is yes, is there another sub in either line up that would do the same?

What is your aim in asking this question? Are you trying to establish if there is a cheaper model that would equal your Servo 15?

Also, do you just want the new sub to equal your Servo 15 or best it? And if you want to best it, I imagine by a substantial margin?
pias's Avatar pias
06:49 AM Liked: 10
post #14 of 15
03-04-2014 | Posts: 20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

What is your aim in asking this question? Are you trying to establish if there is a cheaper model that would equal your Servo 15?

Also, do you just want the new sub to equal your Servo 15 or best it? And if you want to best it, I imagine by a substantial margin?
" the best of today’s inexpensive subwoofers can outperform many of the top models from 15 or 20 years ago. " That quote just made me curious since I have not heard any of the more modern subs. I think the F25 would best my sub, the xs-30 for movies would probably win out too. xs-30 for music I'm not sure. As for finding a cheaper model, I have my doubts but fully confess that I don't know. You imagine correctly, I would like the new sub to be better.
jchong's Avatar jchong
06:57 AM Liked: 32
post #15 of 15
03-04-2014 | Posts: 864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pias View Post

" the best of today’s inexpensive subwoofers can outperform many of the top models from 15 or 20 years ago. " That quote just made me curious since I have not heard any of the more modern subs. I think the F25 would best my sub, the xs-30 for movies would probably win out too. xs-30 for music I'm not sure. As for finding a cheaper model, I have my doubts but fully confess that I don't know. You imagine correctly, I would like the new sub to be better.

From what you mentioned I guess you'd want the new sub to be better in terms of higher output as well as sound quality.

In terms of output, I reckon the F25 and XS30 would have more than your Servo 15. As for sound quality, hard to say since this can be quite subjective. The only way for you to know for sure is if you could demo one of these new subs and directly compare.
Tags: Rythmik , Rythmik Audio , Rythmik Audio F15 Subwoofer , Fv15hp Subwoofer , Paradigm
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