Replacements for my DD18's? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 43 Old 03-17-2014, 08:54 PM
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In that case, I agree, Submersives would seem to be your best best.
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post #32 of 43 Old 03-18-2014, 07:08 AM
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Aren't the fathoms filtered anyway? If I recall correctly, Ilkka's tests showed the F113 had a steep roll off starting around 22 hz, similar to a ported sub. Maybe I'm misremembering though biggrin.gif

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post #33 of 43 Old 03-18-2014, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Having had a pair of DD-18's and a pair of JL F112's (I rerplaced my DD-18's with a pair of F113's then added another pair of F112's cool.gif ). I think you would be very pleased with the SQ of the Fathoms and they are quite a bit smaller. I don't think you will be giving up any "deep bass" with the F112's in fact, I think you will notice the same or slightly more deep clean bass. If you can get a good deal on a Fathom pair jump on it ... smile.gif


The Fathoms are great subs, but the used market has dried up on these big time.

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post #34 of 43 Old 03-18-2014, 10:04 PM
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I believe there is some for sale in the audio gear section right now.
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post #35 of 43 Old 03-19-2014, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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There is one JL that I see and it's a bit much. I could definitely get a new Subversive or JTR for that price.

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post #36 of 43 Old 03-19-2014, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

I would love to try the Submersives, but I have neither the space nor the money for two of them.
Sounds like things have changed.
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post #37 of 43 Old 03-19-2014, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post

Sounds like things have changed.

Well what changed is that I measured and found that if I place them a certain way they would fit behind my main speakers. Also, I read that there is the ability to slave off the original sub. This along with being able to buy the used 1,000 watt amps makes the idea of having two Submersives a lot cheaper that buying two full on HP+ subs. With Fathoms I have to buy two subs at full pop, used or not that's no joke.

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post #38 of 43 Old 03-19-2014, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

Well what changed is that I measured and found that if I place them a certain way they would fit behind my main speakers. Also, I read that there is the ability to slave off the original sub. This along with being able to buy the used 1,000 watt amps makes the idea of having two Submersives a lot cheaper that buying two full on HP+ subs. With Fathoms I have to buy two subs at full pop, used or not that's no joke.
If you have the opportunity, then you should definitely jump on the Submersives. I haven't heard anything bad about them yet; but, there's a first time for everything.biggrin.gif
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post #39 of 43 Old 03-20-2014, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

There is one JL that I see and it's a bit much. I could definitely get a new Subversive or JTR for that price.

Well there was a couple more but they do not last long.
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post #40 of 43 Old 03-20-2014, 10:19 AM
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The Fathom F113 was much better SQ wise than any other commercial subwoofer I have ever owned, only beat by the DIY TC Sounds LMS Ultra sealed. The F113 bested the Revel Sub15, Vandersteen 2Wq, Bag End Infrasub 18, Various HSU and SVS subs, Velodyne HGS-18 with SMS-1 and about 20 other well known commercial subs. What differentiates the Fathom from every other sub is the pitch articulation and accuracy which makes you hear things in bass lines you have never heard before, everything else sounds like mush in comparison. The downside with the F113 is a 13.5" woofer can only move so much air and as you lessen distortion the perceived volume sounds lower so it is best used in multiples.

I do have a friend who has a pair of Seaton Submersives and those are excellent subs and would be my second choice to the F113 as far as SQ is concerned. The Submersive kills the F113 in shear output though but that should be expected when comparing a single 13.5" driver to a pair of 15".

Like others have suggested the ultimate would be DIY and going with the TC Sounds LMS Ultra 18" driver which can be used in an enclosure as small as 3cuft sealed. The only sub that matches the SQ of the F113 or maybe even exceeds it but can also play to much higher levels and go a lot lower.

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post #41 of 43 Old 03-20-2014, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

The Fathom F113 was much better SQ wise than any other commercial subwoofer I have ever owned, only beat by the DIY TC Sounds LMS Ultra sealed. The F113 bested the Revel Sub15, Vandersteen 2Wq, Bag End Infrasub 18, Various HSU and SVS subs, Velodyne HGS-18 with SMS-1 and about 20 other well known commercial subs. What differentiates the Fathom from every other sub is the pitch articulation and accuracy which makes you hear things in bass lines you have never heard before, everything else sounds like mush in comparison. The downside with the F113 is a 13.5" woofer can only move so much air and as you lessen distortion the perceived volume sounds lower so it is best used in multiples.

I do have a friend who has a pair of Seaton Submersives and those are excellent subs and would be my second choice to the F113 as far as SQ is concerned. The Submersive kills the F113 in shear output though but that should be expected when comparing a single 13.5" driver to a pair of 15".

Like others have suggested the ultimate would be DIY and going with the TC Sounds LMS Ultra 18" driver which can be used in an enclosure as small as 3cuft sealed. The only sub that matches the SQ of the F113 or maybe even exceeds it but can also play to much higher levels and go a lot lower.


Thanks for that good assessment. Many of those subs you mentioned I have owned. I have heard the Fathoms and they are great and I love JL subs. The closest i get to DIY is in car audio, where believe it or not I have a..............JL 12W7 in a custom box. I think it strikes the best balance of SQ and output among the 7 or 8 subs I have tried in my car. It's just that in their Fathom line the output vs value ratio sucks. I think the SQ is there but other companies like Seaton, Rythmik and JTR seem to be catching up to them and surpassing them in not only SQ but in output too.

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post #42 of 43 Old 03-20-2014, 07:05 PM
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You're right about the output vs value ratio, it just depends on needs I guess. For a music only system I think the Fathom is the best choice from a commercial sub maker, for movies there are better choices if you like realistic loud/low levels.

I have another friend with quad LMS Ultra's and after hearing them my friend with the dual Submersives said there is a SQ difference. He compared graphs and got them to look exactly the same but even then it is just a different experience. It's not night and day but it is easily noticeable once you hear both sub systems. I sold my LMS Ultra pair to try more DIY projects but after hearing my friends quad set-up I wish I would have just kept the pair I had and added another pair. I have a lot more output now and the most tactile bass but between the 3 of us the LMS Ultra system wins for SQ and we all agree.

The Submersive is one of the best all around subs though and the midbass is killer, it is not the best all around but one of the best for both movies and music. I have had the opportunity to listen to a pair of Submersives in 2 different systems and in each case they sounded great. In one system it replaced the SVS PB13-Ultra and we level matched and compared them in the same spot and the Submersive easily spanked the SVS, it wasn't even close.

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post #43 of 43 Old 03-20-2014, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

Thanks for that good assessment. Many of those subs you mentioned I have owned. I have heard the Fathoms and they are great and I love JL subs. The closest i get to DIY is in car audio, where believe it or not I have a..............JL 12W7 in a custom box. I think it strikes the best balance of SQ and output among the 7 or 8 subs I have tried in my car. It's just that in their Fathom line the output vs value ratio sucks. I think the SQ is there but other companies like Seaton, Rythmik and JTR seem to be catching up to them and surpassing them in not only SQ but in output too.
I've owned a pair of F112's and I changed them out for a pair of Submersives... and there is no comparison:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/2310#post_17111755

Sound quality wise, they're the same, (both excellent), but in terms of output, headroom and deep extension... the Submersives are in another league. I said it all in the post above.

Good luck.

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