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post #1 of 43 Old 03-06-2014, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I am thinking about replacing my pair of DD-18 with smaller sealed subs. Their output is more than I need, although I do like the deep bass they put out. I would want to replace them with another pair of subs.

The subs I have been looking at are SVS SB13's, Velodyne DD-15+'s and Fathom 112, HSU ULS15's and maybe the Rhythmik F15HE. With the JL's and the Velodynes I would be buying them used since I want this to be almost a straight swap form what i can sell the DD18's for. SQ is my primary concern here, not output. So which sub would be best for me?

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post #2 of 43 Old 03-06-2014, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Any suggestions?

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post #3 of 43 Old 03-06-2014, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

I am thinking about replacing my pair of DD-18 with smaller sealed subs. Their output is more than I need, although I do like the deep bass they put out. I would want to replace them with another pair of subs.

The subs I have been looking at are SVS SB13's, Velodyne DD-15+'s and Fathom 112, HSU ULS15's and maybe the Rhythmik F15HE. With the JL's and the Velodynes I would be buying them used since I want this to be almost a straight swap form what i can sell the DD18's for. SQ is my primary concern here, not output. So which sub would be best for me?

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Any suggestions?
You might want to add the Seaton Submersives to your list.
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post #4 of 43 Old 03-06-2014, 06:00 PM
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By all accounts the DD18s are pretty awesome subs. Reason for replacement? Do you need what little extra space smaller subs would provide? If it were me I'd just keep em.

For a smaller sub the SVS SB13 Ultra is probably the smallest with the most output. The next size up would be something like the Rythmik F15HP or PSA XS30. Not sure just how big your subs are and what you're trying to accomplish by down sizing.

Another option would be SVS PC13 Ultras. They take up only about 17^2" of floor space and are tune-able.

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post #5 of 43 Old 03-06-2014, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

By all accounts the DD18s are pretty awesome subs. Reason for replacement? Do you need what little extra space smaller subs would provide? If it were me I'd just keep em.

For a smaller sub the SVS SB13 Ultra is probably the smallest with the most output. The next size up would be something like the Rythmik F15HP or PSA XS30. Not sure just how big your subs are and what you're trying to accomplish by down sizing.

Another option would be SVS PC13 Ultras. They take up only about 17^2" of floor space and are tune-able.


I am also just revamping my whole system. I bought the DD18's about 6 years ago. I am wondering If I can get just a clean of a sound with a smaller sub? Don't know about the SB13 keeping up with my DD's, but I doubt the F112 can quite keep up. F113's can keep up but even used the price will be up there.

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post #6 of 43 Old 03-06-2014, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

I am also just revamping my whole system. I bought the DD18's about 6 years ago. I am wondering If I can get just a clean of a sound with a smaller sub? Don't know about the SB13 keeping up with my DD's, but I doubt the F112 can quite keep up. F113's can keep up but even used the price will be up there.

Never said that the SB13 could keep up. I'm pretty sure they can't, but they have good output for their size. About the smallest you're going to find and still have decent output.

What size room is this in or gong to be in? You're going to have to spend a lot to equal your DD18s. Are you planning on selling them to finance their replacements?

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post #7 of 43 Old 03-06-2014, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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My room is about 2,500 cu ft, but i don't blast when listening as not to disturb the neighbors. Yeah I am going to finance the purchase of the new subs with the sale of the DD18's. If I could find a pair of DD15+'s or F113 new or used for not too much more I would probably go that way. With the SB13's I would just buy those new.

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post #8 of 43 Old 03-06-2014, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post


You might want to add the Seaton Submersives to your list.

You missed the part where he said he wanted smaller sealed subs. While the Submersive is a great sub, I don't think it is smaller than his DD-18s.
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post #9 of 43 Old 03-06-2014, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

My room is about 2,500 cu ft, but i don't blast when listening as not to disturb the neighbors. Yeah I am going to finance the purchase of the new subs with the sale of the DD18's. If I could find a pair of DD15+'s or F113 new or used for not too much more I would probably go that way. With the SB13's I would just buy those new.

I guess what Kini62 is trying to say is that "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Your DD-18s are still very good subs and if they are working for you and you like them, why change them?

Anyway, since your concern now is not about output but rather sound quality, I think those few choices you listed (DD-15+, F113, SB13, F15HP) are all quite solid.
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post #10 of 43 Old 03-06-2014, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jchong View Post

You missed the part where he said he wanted smaller sealed subs. While the Submersive is a great sub, I don't think it is smaller than his DD-18s.
No, I didn't miss that part; but, since he brought up the DD-15+ which is not much smaller than the current DD-18, then why not look at the Submersives. If he has vertical space to spare, then the F2+ is probably the way to go. I'm no Submersive Fan Boy. smile.gif I don't own or heard a Submersive; but, I have read an awful lot of good things about them, and if I was in the the market for a sub, I would definitely give them a look along with the DD+ Series. However, I'm not in the market for a sub, and as long as my DD-18s continue to pound my room the way that they are right now, my subwoofer days are over. I have owned my DD-18s for about 6 years now, and I am very happy with the work that they do in my room. biggrin.gif

DD-18
Dimensions: (H/W/D) 23" x 21.25" x 19.25"

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Dimensions: (H/W/D) 20" x 18.1" x 22.5"

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Dimensions: (H/W/D) 25.5" x 24.25" x 17.5"

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Dimensions: (H/W/D) 35.75" x 20" x 15.625"
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post #11 of 43 Old 03-06-2014, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post

No, I didn't miss that part; but, since he brought up the DD-15+ which is not much smaller than the current DD-18, then why not look at the Submersives. If he has vertical space to spare, then the F2+ is probably the way to go. I'm no Submersive Fan Boy. smile.gif I don't own or heard a Submersive; but, I have read an awful lot of good things about them, and if I was in the the market for a sub, I would definitely give them a look along with the DD+ Series. However, I'm not in the market for a sub, and as long as my DD-18s continue to pound my room the way that they are right now, my subwoofer days are over. I have owned my DD-18s for about 6 years now, and I am very happy with the work that they do in my room. biggrin.gif

DD-18
Dimensions: (H/W/D) 23" x 21.25" x 19.25"

DD-15+
Dimensions: (H/W/D) 20" x 18.1" x 22.5"

Submersive HP+
Dimensions: (H/W/D) 25.5" x 24.25" x 17.5"

Submersive F2+
Dimensions: (H/W/D) 35.75" x 20" x 15.625"

From the dimensions above, the DD-18 is 9408 cu. in.

The Submersive HP is 10821 cu. in. The F2 is even larger at 11171 cu. in. Hence my comment that the Submersives are not smaller than the DD-18 (though the F2 has a smaller footprint).

The DD-15+ at 8145 cu. in. is not in the same size ballpark as the Submersives, so I was surprised that you thought the TS would be ok with the Submersive if he's ok with the DD-15+.
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post #12 of 43 Old 03-07-2014, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I would love to try the Submersives, but I have neither the space nor the money for two of them.

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post #13 of 43 Old 03-07-2014, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

I would love to try the Submersives, but I have neither the space nor the money for two of them.
That's completely understandable. Out of all of the subs that you listed, the SB13 is the smallest.
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post #14 of 43 Old 03-07-2014, 01:40 PM
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I am confused that someone would want something other than the DD18s. You mention you don't blast which I guess means you listen at reasonable levels. What is 'cleaner' in terms of distortion than the DD18s (just asking, I don't know the answer) but considering the design of the velo's I would think they would be way up there on the clean and distortion free chart.
If the change is just for something smaller? Well then that is the reason...
Good luck with your choices......as they say, "wish I had that problem!"
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post #15 of 43 Old 03-07-2014, 02:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bone215 View Post

I am confused that someone would want something other than the DD18s. You mention you don't blast which I guess means you listen at reasonable levels. What is 'cleaner' in terms of distortion than the DD18s (just asking, I don't know the answer) but considering the design of the velo's I would think they would be way up there on the clean and distortion free chart.
If the change is just for something smaller? Well then that is the reason...
Good luck with your choices......as they say, "wish I had that problem!"
Regards,

The PB13 is much cleaner than the DD18.

Take the DD18+, which has 4.5-6dB more output than the DD18. According to Ricci's maximum output test, the PB13 is several dB louder while having *lower* distortion than the DD18+ from 20-80Hz.

I expect the SB13 to be similarly clean as the PB13, just with less output. Even with the lesser output compared to the PB13, the SB13 still has more output than the DD18.
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post #16 of 43 Old 03-07-2014, 08:02 PM
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If you look at the PB13 in sealed mode (over at data-bass.com/systems) it is actually really close to the DD18+ from 40hz on up. I imagine it can easily keep up with the DD18. So if you want smaller with similar output then the SB13 should be a worthy choice.
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post #17 of 43 Old 03-08-2014, 02:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll look into SB13's and also the Rythmik E15 or I might just have to bite the bullet and get a pair of F112's or F113's used.

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post #18 of 43 Old 03-09-2014, 10:31 PM
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How about the HSU ULS-15?

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post #19 of 43 Old 03-10-2014, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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The HSU ULS-15's were on my list too. Although upon reading around the forum, it seems that they may not quite keep up with the rest of my choices.

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post #20 of 43 Old 03-10-2014, 02:39 PM
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ULS-15s would have similar displacement to the rest of your choices. For the price of something like F113s, you could just have a cabinet maker make a cabinet to some design and drop your own driver in there, maybe something like the TC Sounds LMS 15" or a couple of the LMS 12"s per cabinet. That would get you a ton of displacement for the cabinet size. They probably wouldn't be far behind the DD18 at all in terms of headroom or extension. The pain in DIY is making the cabinet, but if you simply had the cabinet made, the rest is easy. Drop the driver in, hook it up to the amp, and EQ it. There are a lot of guys in the DIY forum who would be willing to help you design a cabinet so you can just give the schematics to a cabinet maker. The TC Sounds drivers are very highly regarded for their sound quality, and what's nice is that their performance isn't badly hindered by small enclosures, unlike most other sub drivers.
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post #21 of 43 Old 03-10-2014, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

The HSU ULS-15's were on my list too. Although upon reading around the forum, it seems that they may not quite keep up with the rest of my choices.

Hsu ULS 15- 20-31hz 103.2db, 40-80hz 112.8db 2m rms.

SVS SB13- 20-31hz 103.9db, 40-80hz 114.4db 2m rms.

I would say it is a toss up either way you go.
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post #22 of 43 Old 03-10-2014, 08:44 PM
 
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ULS-15s would have similar displacement to the rest of your choices. For the price of something like F113s, you could just have a cabinet maker make a cabinet to some design and drop your own driver in there, maybe something like the TC Sounds LMS 15" or a couple of the LMS 12"s per cabinet. That would get you a ton of displacement for the cabinet size. They probably wouldn't be far behind the DD18 at all in terms of headroom or extension. The pain in DIY is making the cabinet, but if you simply had the cabinet made, the rest is easy. Drop the driver in, hook it up to the amp, and EQ it. There are a lot of guys in the DIY forum who would be willing to help you design a cabinet so you can just give the schematics to a cabinet maker. The TC Sounds drivers are very highly regarded for their sound quality, and what's nice is that their performance isn't badly hindered by small enclosures, unlike most other sub drivers.

That's a good choice, especially the LMS-R 12. According to Ricci's tests, a single sealed LMS-R 12 in a 15'' cube will have more output at all frequencies than any sub mentioned here except the JL F113 where it is about 1-2dB behind.
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post #23 of 43 Old 03-10-2014, 09:31 PM
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That's a good choice, especially the LMS-R 12. According to Ricci's tests, a single sealed LMS-R 12 in a 15'' cube will have more output at all frequencies than any sub mentioned here except the JL F113 where it is about 1-2dB behind.

True, and for less than the price of a used F113, you could put two LMS 12's in a cabinet and have more output than even a DD18 Plus.
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post #24 of 43 Old 03-10-2014, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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OK it seems like the SB13 and the ULS-15 are close as far as output, now which would win on the SQ front?

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post #25 of 43 Old 03-17-2014, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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How do the Seaton subs compare to SQ wise to my DD and to the JL subs? I just noticed with the slave subs the cost would be less for two.

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post #26 of 43 Old 03-17-2014, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

How do the Seaton subs compare to SQ wise to my DD and to the JL subs? I just noticed with the slave subs the cost would be less for two.

I would bet the Seatons sound every bit as good with much more headroom. Atleast this is what I gather fromm reading the past subwoofer GTG's where mutliple members got together and tested several subs in the same listening enviroment. The Seaton is always regarded as the Top Dog.
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post #27 of 43 Old 03-17-2014, 06:30 PM
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How do the Seaton subs compare to SQ wise to my DD and to the JL subs? I just noticed with the slave subs the cost would be less for two.

I thought you wanted smaller subs? Seatons aren't really smaller than DD18s.
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post #28 of 43 Old 03-17-2014, 06:43 PM
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I am thinking about replacing my pair of DD-18 with smaller sealed subs. Their output is more than I need, although I do like the deep bass they put out. I would want to replace them with another pair of subs.

The subs I have been looking at are SVS SB13's, Velodyne DD-15+'s and Fathom 112, HSU ULS15's and maybe the Rhythmik F15HE. With the JL's and the Velodynes I would be buying them used since I want this to be almost a straight swap form what i can sell the DD18's for. SQ is my primary concern here, not output. So which sub would be best for me?

Having had a pair of DD-18's and a pair of JL F112's (I rerplaced my DD-18's with a pair of F113's then added another pair of F112's cool.gif ). I think you would be very pleased with the SQ of the Fathoms and they are quite a bit smaller. I don't think you will be giving up any "deep bass" with the F112's in fact, I think you will notice the same or slightly more deep clean bass. If you can get a good deal on a Fathom pair jump on it ... smile.gif

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post #29 of 43 Old 03-17-2014, 06:44 PM
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OK it seems like the SB13 and the ULS-15 are close as far as output, now which would win on the SQ front?

The Fathoms ... wink.gif

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post #30 of 43 Old 03-17-2014, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I thought you wanted smaller subs? Seatons aren't really smaller than DD18s.


I would prefer a smaller sub, but my options are pretty limited as far as getting a sub with as good as or better SQ as my DD18's. In all honesty Fathoms are probably it, but they are pretty expensive even on the used market, which for some reason lately seems to have dried up??? Since the Seatons are a little less wide, I can put them behind my main speakers and have them fire to the left and right. It seems, from what I have read, that the Seaton HP will be an improvement over my DD's in both sound and output.

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Velodyne DD-18 Pair
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Velodyne Dd 15 Digital Drive Subwoofer 15 Inch Gloss Black , Svs Sb13 Ultra Piano Gloss 13 Inch 1000 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Jl Audio Fathom F112 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer , Hsu Research Uls 15 Subwoofer
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