PB2000 or PB12-Plus... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Guys,

 

I've seen many threads comparing the PB12-NSD vs the PB12-Plus but what do you think or the PB-2000? Is it worth it to drop another 500$ (I'm in Canada) for the Plus?

 

I already bought the PB-2000 like 3 weeks ago through SonicBoomAudio.com. Was supposed to have it last week and now they told me they won't receive the PB-2000 before the 20th of march.

 

So here is the question... Get the new PB-2000 or spend 500$ for and older but bigger model?

 

 

Thanks!

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post #2 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 06:20 AM
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If you are going to need the extra 3db of output and variable tuning then get the Plus.
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post #3 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. In term of output (mainly for movies), will I hear and feel a big difference between both? I do like that "chest thump" feeling on action movies :)

 

Also, could you give me more information on that variable tuning feature... I'm sort of confused with the info I could find on the net...

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post #4 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 06:44 AM
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All depends on how loud you listen...if you plan on listening at reference levels, I need to know your room size because neither sub may be up for the task. Variable tuning allows you to block the port(s) and achieve deeper bass extension at the expense of 40-80hz output. If you want chest thump then all ports open would probably be the best since chest thump frequences are centered around 80hz.
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post #5 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot for your time Basshead,

 

Here's more info to work with:

 

Receiver: Denon AVR X-4000

Front: Polk RTIa9

Center: Polk CSIa6

Surround: Polk FXIa4

Sub: Polk PSW125 (suck...)

 

Room is 14 x 18 with 8 foot ceiling which is roughly 2000 Sqft. There's a door size opening front left.

 

I use it 90% for movies and 10% music. Volume level is variable depending if my son is at home or not but often the volume on the receiver is -10b to 0db... Those polks are a bit inefficient speaker... They sound well but requires tons of power. Next buy is an Emotiva XPA-5 when WAF goes up after that sub comes in...

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post #6 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 07:13 AM
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Yes I have the RTI-A7 powered by aAdcom GFA-555II, made a world of difference. The A9 definitely need a good power amp.

That being said I would get the PB12+, it will do the best job keeping up with your A9's especially after you feed them some emotiva power!! smile.gif
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post #7 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyQC View Post

So here is the question... Get the new PB-2000 or spend 500$ for and older but bigger model?

Option 3 is the best: Get the new PB-2000, and then save the difference towards a 2nd PB-2000 later on. If the PB12-Plus is indeed only 3db more than the PB-2000 (not doubting basshead, just don't know), then dual PB-2000s should provide you more maximum output. Duals also have the potential to produce a smoother in-room response through a wider seating area.

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post #8 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyQC View Post

Thanks a lot for your time Basshead,

Here's more info to work with:

Receiver: Denon AVR X-4000
Front: Polk RTIa9
Center: Polk CSIa6
Surround: Polk FXIa4
Sub: Polk PSW125 (suck...)

Room is 14 x 18 with 8 foot ceiling which is roughly 2000 Sqft. There's a door size opening front left.

I use it 90% for movies and 10% music. Volume level is variable depending if my son is at home or not but often the volume on the receiver is -10b to 0db... Those polks are a bit inefficient speaker... They sound well but requires tons of power. Next buy is an Emotiva XPA-5 when WAF goes up after that sub comes in...

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Yes I have the RTI-A7 powered by aAdcom GFA-555II, made a world of difference. The A9 definitely need a good power amp.

That being said I would get the PB12+, it will do the best job keeping up with your A9's especially after you feed them some emotiva power!! smile.gif

Id have to agree and point you to the plus series unless you went for dual pb2000s at the same price range
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post #9 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Dual will provide more output? I really thought it only produce a smoother in-room response through a wider seating area... More choices...

 

Also here in Canada, Dual PB-2000 (900$ each) is almost the same price as the PB13-Ultra (1900$). If I drop 2K on the sub... My Amp will have to wait for a while so my only choices for now is really going single PB-2000 or PB12-Plus...

 

I guess I'll go for the PB12-Plus...

 

Thanks a lot guys!

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post #10 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyQC View Post

Dual will provide more output? I really thought it only produce a smoother in-room response through a wider seating area... More choices...

Duals can easily provide +6db more output than a single sub of the same model.

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post #11 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Duals can easily provide +6db more output than a single sub of the same model.

...EDIT...

If Bill Fitzgerald says something opposite than what I believe I am going to take his word. He knows more than me
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post #12 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 07:52 AM
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That only happens with you place both subs in the same location I thought. But spreading them out still gives you a 3db boost

No. I used to think that until Bill Fitzgerald told me otherwise and said use the 6db number. Didn't quite understand it all (you know Bill's explanations) but it seemed to make sense smile.gif

DannyQC: Bill Fitzgerald is an AVS member who is a professional speaker and sub designer.

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post #13 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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+6 db is tempting but my wallet doesn't agree :)

 

Last question... Is there a "break in " period for a sub or I can just crank it up when I receive it?

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post #14 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Option 3 is the best: Get the new PB-2000, and then save the difference towards a 2nd PB-2000 later on. If the PB12-Plus is indeed only 3db more than the PB-2000 (not doubting basshead, just don't know), then dual PB-2000s should provide you more maximum output. Duals also have the potential to produce a smoother in-room response through a wider seating area.

Well according to Ed Mullen the PB12+ has a 6db advantage over the NSD, the PB2000 has 2.85db average advantage over the NSD. Most of that is above 30hz. I suspect the PB12+ probably has a bit more then that down around 16hz-20hz. The PB12+ of course is the more robust subwoofer, being its massive driver and variable tuning. I do not see a single PB2000 keeping up with those A9's with a good power amp. Your talking 6 -7" drivers that will hit with authority down to 30hz in room. My A7's actually dig to about 28hz before rolling off sharply.

That being said, Dual PB2000's or a single PB12+ would be a good choice, I was merely sticking with the OP's options. However it is the norm for threads here to take a left turn quickly. smile.gif
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post #15 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 08:12 AM
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Last question... Is there a "break in " period for a sub or I can just crank it up when I receive it?

I'm paranoid and like to give it an hour or two of breaking in before I start blasting it. And I don't like the idea of blasting it straight out of the box when it's been sitting on a cold FedEx truck. But that's just me.

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post #16 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 08:13 AM
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That being said, Dual PB2000's or a single PB12+ would be a good choice, I was merely sticking with the OP's options. However it is the norm for threads here to take a left turn quickly. smile.gif

I was actually surprised that you didn't beat me to that suggestion smile.gif

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post #17 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 09:40 AM
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I was actually surprised that you didn't beat me to that suggestion smile.gif


I know I almost suggested it....however I have been trying to refrain from pushing folks a different direction even if it imo is for the better. Not everybody wants duals even tho again imo it is a must. smile.gif

The only time I was ever happy with a single sub is when I had s massive DIY passive 15" sub stuffed in closet of my 10x12 bed room. This was back when I was 14yrs old and I am 32 now. Tells ya how long I have been playing with Bass.
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post #18 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Reading subwoofers thread after another... I'm now thinking of keeping my order for a PB-2000 and... buy another in the next months... My receiver has Audissey Platinum with Sub EQ that can balance 2 subs separatly...

 

I think the best upgrade path for me is:

 

1- Getting rid or that Polk PSW125 and replace it by a PB-2000 (should be a good difference... I hope so at least)

2- Get that Emotiva XPA-5 to power these watts-hungry polks

3- Buy a second PB-2000...

 

Unless I win the lottery tonight ;)

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post #19 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 10:08 AM
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I think going with dual PB200's is the way for you to go. Also what are you planning on crossing your A9's over at??? I ask because even a cheap $200 sub can usually put out more bass under 80hz than even really good towers. Now with a cheap sub the bass wont be as clean as the A9s. But I would try crossing them over at 80hz or IMO 60hz at the lowest. I find in my setup 80hz crossover all around is the best. So I guess my point is, is an external power amp necessary?

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post #20 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't know if my settings are correct but for now I use these with my "awesome" PSW125:

 

RTIa9 Front: 80 Hz

CSIa6 Center: 90 Hz

FXIa4 Surround: 110 Hz

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post #21 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 10:19 AM
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Yeah so that's my point. If your crossing the A9s at 80hz do you even need to spend money on an amp??? Basically you are only using the 3 - 7" woofers from 120hz to 80hz, now I know that is an important range, BUT if you are going to keep them crossed at 80hz what are you going to gain from an amp? The hardest thing for a receiver or amp to do is the lower bass that is one reason why ppl recommend an 80hz crossover or at least use that as a starting point.

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post #22 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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That's why I want an AMP :)

 

Tried 40,50,60 Hz but my receiver won't drive those 3 woofers with enough authority... At 80 Hz, it's ok.

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post #23 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 10:45 AM
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But with a good sub why do you wanna go lower than 80hz. I have towers with dual 8" woofers and a massive front port and they are 8 ohm speakers and they can dig pretty deep, but my subs still sound better and do a better job than the speakers can do. And my AVR is THX S2 certified rated at 135watts/ch with 2 channes driven.

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post #24 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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If that PB-2000 can finally ship, I'll experiment and see how it goes. Going with an amp would give me more headroom during action movies also. Often listening to receiver at 0db and I feel like I'd turn up the volume a bit more but going over 0db gives a crappy distorded sound.

 

If I got this wrong... let me know! I'm here to learn from ppl with more experience than me!

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post #25 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 11:03 AM
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Dang you listen loud..... Are you calibrated to reference? The loudest I've ever listened to a movie was -16db with my buddies, but when my wife is there she things -30db is loud so that's as loud as she lets me go.
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post #26 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 11:10 AM
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1)Get the PB12-plus.  You can tune it for much higher output from 15-25 Hz for movies than the PB2000.  It also has the piano black finish that your wife will love...tell her you did it just for her.

 

2)  Get a 2nd plus next year around tax time, and upgrade the first to an ultra.

 

3)  A year from that, upgrade the other plus to an ultra

 

4)  Dual PB13-ultras, subwoofer heaven.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

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I've always wondered if this was caused by the speakers. I heard they are pretty inefficient and needed a lot of power. When I power up my amp, the volume is at -40db and the sound is not loud enough to listen to a tv show for example. -32db is fine and no I am not deaf :)

 

I did no calibration and I don't have a SPL Meter. The only thing I did was the audissey setup.

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post #28 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Dang you listen loud..... Are you calibrated to reference? The loudest I've ever listened to a movie was -16db with my buddies, but when my wife is there she things -30db is loud so that's as loud as she lets me go.

It sounds like your calibration is unusual.  If I was at -30, I would have to be whisper quiet to hear without missing some dialogue.  I can listen to movies comfortably with my wife at -20, max of -15.  Alone, -10 is fine but I don't normally go louder than that.

 

Maybe you have incredibly sensitive speakers in a tiny room?  Mine are average at maybe 88dB sensitivity, 12 feet away.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #29 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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1)Get the PB12-plus.  You can tune it for much higher output from 15-25 Hz for movies than the PB2000.  It also has the piano black finish that your wife will love...tell her you did it just for her.

 

2)  Get a 2nd plus next year around tax time, and upgrade the first to an ultra.

 

3)  A year from that, upgrade the other plus to an ultra

 

4)  Dual PB13-ultras, subwoofer heaven.


Lol sounds like a good plan but I just bought a new ATV and I'm already trying to convince my wife to buy a fishing boat for the next summer... Beside that, I was supposed to sell my motorcycle and I don't know why but I always forget to place an add...

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post #30 of 61 Old 03-07-2014, 11:20 AM
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Lol, too many toys.  


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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