If money were no object, which sub(s) would you pick for your room? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Old 03-16-2014, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by wpbpete View Post

smile.gif I like..Wet dream indeed.. We'll keep the Mac's...
But since money is no object, I'll take 4 of the big bros, thank you biggrin.gif



And a set of these please biggrin.gif
Now that's what I'm talking about. Finally a man that understands money is no object.

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Old 03-16-2014, 08:01 PM
 
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Since the room is always a part of the system, it would have to be incorporated into and as a part of any dream system. In other words, the dream system starts with a dream room, than you can move onto gear. For bass, you want to contain the air pressure and not let any leak out. A thick concrete wall would be good here. You would also want the room shaped in such a way to minimize nulls and cancellations at the listening position. I'm guessing that the idea room would have no flat surfaces, just curved surfaces to diffuse the waves and prevent cancellation. You would need plenty of power, so lots of high amp circuits available. It should be heavily treated, so all the frequencies sound nice, not just bass. You wouldn't want a large room, maybe something sized in such a way to optimize pressure vessel gain.
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Since the room is always a part of the system, it would have to be incorporated into and as a part of any dream system. In other words, the dream system starts with a dream room, than you can move onto gear. For bass, you want to contain the air pressure and not let any leak out. A thick concrete wall would be good here. You would also want the room shaped in such a way to minimize nulls and cancellations at the listening position. I'm guessing that the idea room would have no flat surfaces, just curved surfaces to diffuse the waves and prevent cancellation. You would need plenty of power, so lots of high amp circuits available. It should be heavily treated, so all the frequencies sound nice, not just bass. You wouldn't want a large room, maybe something sized in such a way to optimize pressure vessel gain.

Indeed. With the rotary sub I mentioned that would mean significant alterations and a proper space for installation. Might need a proper built house, not just room!
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Old 03-17-2014, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Since the room is always a part of the system, it would have to be incorporated into and as a part of any dream system. In other words, the dream system starts with a dream room, than you can move onto gear. For bass, you want to contain the air pressure and not let any leak out. A thick concrete wall would be good here. You would also want the room shaped in such a way to minimize nulls and cancellations at the listening position. I'm guessing that the idea room would have no flat surfaces, just curved surfaces to diffuse the waves and prevent cancellation. You would need plenty of power, so lots of high amp circuits available. It should be heavily treated, so all the frequencies sound nice, not just bass. You wouldn't want a large room, maybe something sized in such a way to optimize pressure vessel gain.
Thanks for describing my room, even though you have not been in it!!! cool.gif Apart from curved surfaces that is.

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Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel.

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Old 03-17-2014, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Racks cool equipment better than bookshelves and your gear will last longer is one positive there. A low cost and small formfactor outboard eq is something like the miniDSP. You can spend less than $1k and get Audyssey XT32, too: http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/onktxnr818/onkyo-tx-nr818-7.2-ch-thx-certified-network-a/v-receiver/1.html

Thanks for the suggestion.  I have the miniDSP, just struggling a bit with an output issue.  The upgraded AVR equipment rack route is an option down the road, but will likely be next year as I have basically been building my entire system from scratch since late last year.  I still need to upgrade my second sub later this year.  I think I win the award for most mismatched subwoofer combo ever.  For me, WAF goes beyond asthetics.  I have to put some time behind my recent purchases, but I do see my next steps as surround speakers(soon), XS15 as my upgrade to the Polk(later this year), 70"(black friday?), new AVR and rack(next year).  I want dual sub output and eq ability when I change AVR's, and a second zone that can play a different source if that is possible.  Like some music outside and tv inside.

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Old 03-17-2014, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Money is no object and I have what I have.

Congrats!  Subwoofer bliss :)  How about a picture and a graph?

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Old 03-17-2014, 04:44 PM
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This is with 4 of the IB subs playing, as I can only measure one channel at a time with REW and HDMI. Now double the RE XXX drivers get get an estimated SPL in room, add another 4 x LMS ultra 18's that I have started building for the corners of the room. And as long as I am getting over reference SPL levels @2hz I will never, ever leave me wanting more.



Pics of the 4 subs behind the screen.



Yeah, I know, I have to get my act together and get a few updated pics.
shadyJ and its phillip like this.

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Old 03-17-2014, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

This is with 4 of the IB subs playing, as I can only measure one channel at a time with REW and HDMI. Now double the RE XXX drivers get get an estimated SPL in room, add another 4 x LMS ultra 18's that I have started building for the corners of the room. And as long as I am getting over reference SPL levels @2hz I will never, ever leave me wanting more.



Pics of the 4 subs behind the screen.



Yeah, I know, I have to get my act together and get a few updated pics.

Wow! That's awesome.

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Old 03-17-2014, 05:24 PM
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WOW so many good choices but hands down 2 Sub2's from paradigm or and I say or because i never heard of Power Sound Audio Triax. These look like they would be awesome, the specs are great Comparison_Mini_Chart_TriaxJPEG.jpg 27k .jpg file

Does anyone have these or heard them before? I am looking to add a second sub, so far I cannot fnd another sub25. The sub2 is out of reach i would say, but the triax is intriging

I have 3 and they are amazing. Flat down to under 5hz in my room, even with 2 they were flat to 5hz. I would think they have more and deeper output than the Sub2 (as would the JTR S2)

Here is info from paradigms site about the Sub2

"Our Vibration-Canceling Design Architecture is only part of the story. There's still no replacement for displacement: In a small, compact form factor, six 10" drivers in SUB 2 move more air than a pair of 15" woofers! SUB 1's six 8" drivers move as much air as two 12" woofers. The other part of the story lies in the cutting-edge design of the bass drivers"

The triax has 3 15's

There is a dedicated triax thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1492820/official-psa-triax-thread

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Old 03-17-2014, 06:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

This is with 4 of the IB subs playing, as I can only measure one channel at a time with REW and HDMI. Now double the RE XXX drivers get get an estimated SPL in room, add another 4 x LMS ultra 18's that I have started building for the corners of the room. And as long as I am getting over reference SPL levels @2hz I will never, ever leave me wanting more.



Pics of the 4 subs behind the screen.



Yeah, I know, I have to get my act together and get a few updated pics.

That is an awe-inspiring system JapanDave. A couple questions, how do measure 2 Hz? Also do you know how clean the output is down to the single digit frequencies, ie what kind of THD are you getting down there, at say Reference? At what SPL point does THD climb over 10% would you say?
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:48 PM
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How bout a pair of 18in. Magico Q subs

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Old 03-18-2014, 09:31 AM
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How bout a pair of 18in. Magico Q subs
Waste of money and I am the last person why should be saying so with $40K+ in subs spent.

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Old 03-18-2014, 09:57 AM
 
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I am the last person why should be saying so with $40K+ in subs spent.

Not really, two Magico 18"s would still cost more than your system and only provide a small fraction of the performance.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:59 AM
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I would get two ZU Audio Submission Subs! Great company, and Made in Ogden Utah, USA! I stopped by the factory/warehouse a few months ago, great products!

http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/submission
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:21 AM
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JapanDave,

at 2 Hz, the wavelength is around 500 feet. Much longer than a room dimension. Unless your room is huge, I would guess that everything below 10 Hz or so would sound and feel exactly the same. Basically the same as getting hit with a shock wave. I'm not sure if there's any benefit at all to being able to play 2Hz at reference as opposed to 10 Hz.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Liberty76 View Post

I would get two ZU Audio Submission Subs! Great company, and Made in Ogden Utah, USA! I stopped by the factory/warehouse a few months ago, great products!

http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/submission

Um they are charging $4k for a sub that uses a mid range 12" driver which retails costs $175. That ratio of parts to assembled unit cost is almost as bad as the Magico. $30k sub/$900 driver vs $4k sub/$175 driver, do the math.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:40 AM
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I would get two ZU Audio Submission Subs! Great company, and Made in Ogden Utah, USA! I stopped by the factory/warehouse a few months ago, great products!



http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/submission

 



I can only imagine what Bill Fitzmaurice would say about this.... Zu Audio recommends if you run these subs in pairs to place them symmectrically in the front of the room as close to your L&R mains as possible.... Man this is some of the worst placement advice I'd ever heard.

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Old 03-18-2014, 10:47 AM
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Well, apparently you did the math for me! The Eminence driver isn't pricey, but it does the job! So why the $4K price tag? Perhaps its the internal components, research, made in USA and such? You have judged a book (Sub) by its cover (Driver)!
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty76 View Post

I would get two ZU Audio Submission Subs! Great company, and Made in Ogden Utah, USA! I stopped by the factory/warehouse a few months ago, great products!



http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/submission

 



I can only imagine what Bill Fitzmaurice would say about this.... Zu Audio recommends if you run these subs in pairs to place them symmectrically in the front of the room as close to your L&R mains as possible.... Man this is some of the worst placement advice I'd ever heard.

It's not the worst placement advice. Placing them by the left and right mains will at least eliminate localization. It probably wouldn't be an optimal place for the FR though. In any case, it depends on the room.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Liberty76 View Post

Well, apparently you did the math for me! The Eminence driver isn't pricey, but it does the job! So why the $4K price tag? Perhaps its the internal components, research, made in USA and such? You have judged a book (Sub) by its cover (Driver)!

Lol, the driver isn't the cover, it IS the internal components. All the rest of the internal components is just going to be stuffing and bracing, and by the way not made in the USA as the amp is Dutch. The 'cover' here is the varnished cabinet. I could almost understand the $4k price tag with those cheap components if it were some kind of complicated transmission line build, but its just a down-firing subwoofer.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:17 AM
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Here we go again. C'mon, guys. Can't there be one thread that can remain on topic without devolving into insults (thankfully that post was removed) or railing on the cost of a particular piece of equipment? It is, after all, a thread that states: "Just a fun thread to see what everyone would choose if money were not an object.  Choose something that would be realistic as far as size goes for your space that you would actually want to have, and what you have now." That means, even the Magico and Zu Audio are legitimate choices.

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Old 03-19-2014, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post

I have 3 and they are amazing. Flat down to under 5hz in my room, even with 2 they were flat to 5hz. I would think they have more and deeper output than the Sub2 (as would the JTR S2)

Here is info from paradigms site about the Sub2

"Our Vibration-Canceling Design Architecture is only part of the story. There's still no replacement for displacement: In a small, compact form factor, six 10" drivers in SUB 2 move more air than a pair of 15" woofers! SUB 1's six 8" drivers move as much air as two 12" woofers. The other part of the story lies in the cutting-edge design of the bass drivers"

The triax has 3 15's

There is a dedicated triax thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1492820/official-psa-triax-thread
Can you please elaborate how you are getting 3 Triax subs to play reference @ 5hz???

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Old 03-19-2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JapanDave View Post

Can you please elaborate how you are getting 3 Triax subs to play reference @ 5hz???

I think confusion is he said flat to 5hz, which I believe that is with a standard FR sweep around 80-90db. I do not think he is saying reference capable down to 5hz.

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Old 03-19-2014, 08:51 AM
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I think confusion is he said flat to 5hz, which I believe that is with a standard FR sweep around 80-90db. I do not think he is saying reference capable down to 5hz.

This is correct.

Here is a sweep I did before I got the 3rd. I can try to do a sweep at a higher lever this weekend. Would i need to do a 105 db sweep or 115db sweep to see reference? I had my avr at around -12 I believe when I did these sweeps.

audysseyxt32nosmoothing_zps712ae35c.jpg

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Old 03-19-2014, 11:37 AM
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... if money were not an object.  ...
Cost no object, ...

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Old 03-19-2014, 01:21 PM
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I certainly didn't expect to get the jabs about the ZU Subs! In my effort to bring the topic back in line, I would also pick the Wilson Audio Thor's Hammer! Its a beast at 411lbs and starting at $21,000!
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:39 PM
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If money were no object I would put in whatever subs the engineers installing my own personal IMAX theater recommended.
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Old 03-19-2014, 02:52 PM
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Are we now just looking up expensive subs? You cares what they cost, some of us have what we have because of experiences with certain goals. I have the pleasure of having a small room so reference is easier than a smooth response. I don't need the big guns to get me there or nearly as many as others bu I still have plenty for my room. Showing compression sweeps will tell you how loud one can go at which frequency. Once it starts to compress that is the limit or the response starts to dramatically change. All the hard work for a smooth response goes out the door! Always strive to get headroom at your weakest link then you will be fine.

JapanDave,
What are you using to get a rise like that at 5 hz? Usually it happens two octaves above. Are you using a Bassis?
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Old 03-19-2014, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty76 View Post

Well, apparently you did the math for me! The Eminence driver isn't pricey, but it does the job! So why the $4K price tag? Perhaps its the internal components, research, made in USA and such? You have judged a book (Sub) by its cover (Driver)!
It doesn't do the job that Zu claims it does. The LAB 12 goes to 12Hz? Yes, it does, 26dB down from F0. You can easily find dozens of subs the equal of this one for 1/4 the price or less. Why do they charge $4K? They remain at their heart a 'high end' cable company. Charging exorbitant prices is what they do. OTOH:
Quote:
I would also pick the Wilson Audio Thor's Hammer! Its a beast at 411lbs and starting at $21,000!
That's even sillier than the Zu, being ten times the price that one could possibly justify. Anyone knowledgeable about speakers would recognize that fact, but that's not the Wilson customer base.
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Old 03-19-2014, 03:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Liberty76 View Post

I certainly didn't expect to get the jabs about the ZU Subs! In my effort to bring the topic back in line, I would also pick the Wilson Audio Thor's Hammer! Its a beast at 411lbs and starting at $21,000!

I notice in a previous post about visiting the factory that you didn't demo the subs at all, but were impressed with the finishes? Or is it more that they're in Utah?
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