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post #31 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 04:54 PM
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You guys should see how the drugged up folks in Khanashin responded to 5.56 lol

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post #32 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 04:55 PM
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You guys should see how the drugged up folks in Khanashin responded to 5.56 lol

M855 doesn't have the best reputation.

 

mk262 is my choice. ;o)


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post #33 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 04:56 PM
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M855 doesn't have the best reputation.

mk262 is my choice. ;o)

Are those the interim sost rounds?

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post #34 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 04:59 PM
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Are those the interim sost rounds?

I'm not sure. I'm not nor was I ever military, I'm just a gun guy/volunteer rifle instructor, who spends waaaay too much time on gun forums. I do know that some in the military are using it and what I have seen/heard is that it is doing a pretty good job. Better than M855A1, it sounds like. But I don't really know.

 

I also know it will shoot ~MOA in my "M4". 


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post #35 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 05:34 PM
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At what distance?
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post #36 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 05:47 PM
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At what distance?

I'm not sure how knowledgeable you are, one of the answers to this is that "an MOA is an MOA". By its very  nature an MOA is nothing more than an angular measurement yada yada. But in the real world we have wind and optical limitations etc etc so 4" at 400 yards is much more difficult than 1" at 100 yards, 

 

I have only measured groups at 100 yards. Beyond that I have only shot steel and recorded hit/miss. And I don't try to shoot my 5.56 carbine very far. My BSZ is for a point blank range of 0-225 yards with mk262 (give or take), which is good enough for me.


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post #37 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 05:50 PM
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post #38 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 06:02 PM
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At what distance?
I'm not sure how knowledgeable you are, one of the answers to this is that "an MOA is an MOA". By its very  nature an MOA is nothing more than an angular measurement yada yada. But in the real world we have wind and optical limitations etc etc so 4" at 400 yards is much more difficult than 1" at 100 yards, 

I have only measured groups at 100 yards. Beyond that I have only shot steel and recorded hit/miss. And I don't try to shoot my 5.56 carbine very far. My BSZ is for a point blank range of 0-225 yards with mk262 (give or take), which is good enough for me.

I can shoot my bolt gun .338 in a 2 inch grp at 300yds. At 400yds forget it. Longer the range the worst we are. So a minute of angle that I can shoot at 300yds isn't going to be true at 400yds.
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post #39 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 06:21 PM
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When I served in the army in Vietnam, I regularly heard the fire of 155mm and 175mm howitzers. Not much bass, but an incredibly loud "crack," a rending of the air that is impossible to reproduce with audio equipment. Small arms -- M16, AK-47 -- have a loud "pop," that is also unreproduceable. The sound of the AK is quite distinctive.
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post #40 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Farley1 View Post

5.56/.223 is quite popular for defense these days.
By wannabees, the same ones who buy AKs as hunting weapons.
My unit didn't have much love for our issued M16s that stopped working if you sneezed in their direction, we left them in our hooches and used captured AKs instead. That also had the advantage of being able to use captured ammunition, so we didn't have to carry as much with us. ARs and M16s were popular amongst the spray and pray crowd, when they worked. Maybe the current generation are better, they've had another forty years to get the bugs out. rolleyes.gif
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The sound of the AK is quite distinctive.
Reason #3 we preferred them. When NVA or VC heard incoming fire that sounded like it was coming from their own guys it often confused them just long enough make them hesitate before returning fire. We just had to make sure there weren't any friendly units in the neighborhood lest they start spraying in our direction for the same reason.

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post #41 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 07:41 PM
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By wannabees, the same ones who buy AKs as hunting weapons.
My unit didn't have much love for our issued M16s that stopped working if you sneezed in their direction, we left them in our hooches and used captured AKs instead. That also had the advantage of being able to use captured ammunition, so we didn't have to carry as much with us. ARs and M16s were popular amongst the spray and pray crowd, when they worked. Maybe the current generation are better, they've had another forty years to get the bugs out. rolleyes.gif
Reason #3 we preferred them. When NVA or VC heard incoming fire that sounded like it was coming from their own guys it often confused them just long enough make them hesitate before returning fire. We just had to make sure there weren't any friendly units in the neighborhood lest they start spraying in our direction for the same reason.

I know some people that would love to set your attitude straight, but that's probably a topic for a different forum.

 

We'll just have to disagree. 


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post #42 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calypte View Post

When I served in the army in Vietnam, I regularly heard the fire of 155mm and 175mm howitzers. Not much bass, but an incredibly loud "crack," a rending of the air that is impossible to reproduce with audio equipment. Small arms -- M16, AK-47 -- have a loud "pop," that is also unreproduceable. The sound of the AK is quite distinctive.

My friend, you'd love the sound of the new HIMARS systems. Thunderous!

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #43 of 49 Old 03-18-2014, 07:49 PM
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I know some people that would love to set your attitude straight, but that's probably a topic for a different forum.

We'll just have to disagree. 

Had to resist myself hahah

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #44 of 49 Old 03-19-2014, 05:50 AM
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I know some people that would love to set your attitude straight, but that's probably a topic for a different forum.
Give them any assault weapon they want, I'll take a Remington 700, we'll see who hits a man sized target at 800 yards first. No one I know who actually served in front line duty has any interest in owning assault weapons. We don't have any plans to do that job again, so there's no reason to own tools that are best suited to that job. If we want to hunt we use a hunting rifle, if we need to protect ourselves we use a pistol. We don't play video warfare games either. If you've actually been there and done that you don't have any desire to revisit it, nor the need to imagine yourself as Rambo because you have an AK on your wall.

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post #45 of 49 Old 03-19-2014, 07:42 AM
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Give them any assault weapon they want, I'll take a Remington 700, we'll see who hits a man sized target at 800 yards first. No one I know who actually served in front line duty has any interest in owning assault weapons. We don't have any plans to do that job again, so there's no reason to own tools that are best suited to that job. If we want to hunt we use a hunting rifle, if we need to protect ourselves we use a pistol. We don't play video warfare games either. If you've actually been there and done that you don't have any desire to revisit it, nor the need to imagine yourself as Rambo because you have an AK on your wall.

Last I checked, [personal] "defense" probably didn't mean shooting people at 800 yards. 

 

If somebody breaks into your home you are more than welcome to pick up any arm you like, including your scoped bolt action rifle. Many other people might choose differently. Perhaps an AR/M4 style rifle chambered in 5.56/.223, for example. That does NOT make them "wannabees", as you put it. :rolleyes: 

 

BTW: I know veterans who would find your attitude despicable. Use what you like. Other people will use what they like. Those may not be the same, and they don't need to be.

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post #46 of 49 Old 03-19-2014, 07:56 AM
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The best bass I heard was a 15000 pound Daisy Cutter. That was a real gut puncher.

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post #47 of 49 Old 03-19-2014, 07:57 AM
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Somebody mentioned collateral damage. 5.56/.223, being lightweight and very high velocity, is actually no more dangerous for home defense (over penetration through walls, etc) than a service cartridge handgun or a shotgun (with buck or slugs, birdshot is not for defense against people!), because it tumbles/fragments and dumps energy very quickly.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

Looks like most everything will go through multiple typical interior walls. When replaced with 3/4" pine, the pistol rounds were all stopped after 4-8 boards. The .223 went through all 12 boards and kept going. Looks like there might be a possibility for overpenetration with 5.56/.223 smile.gif

I don't know much about guns or shooting so I dunno how useful the information on that site is. It seems interesting to me though biggrin.gif

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post #48 of 49 Old 03-19-2014, 08:00 AM
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http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm

Looks like most everything will go through multiple typical interior walls. When replaced with 3/4" pine, the pistol rounds were all stopped after 4-8 boards. The .223 went through all 12 boards and kept going. Looks like there might be a possibility for overpenetration with 5.56/.223 smile.gif

I don't know much about guns or shooting so I dunno how useful the information on that site is. It seems interesting to me though biggrin.gif

That's the most important thing to realize. If it penetrates enough to reliably stop an attacker, it will penetrate multiple interior walls. That's just physics. Any of them can over penetrate. 5.56 absolutely can as well. 

 

You know enough to go to the box o truth. That is a very good real world reference. 

 

There are many different rounds and bullets available for most cartridges, which can have a significant impact on performance as well.

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post #49 of 49 Old 03-19-2014, 08:05 AM
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That's the most important thing to realize. If it penetrates enough to reliably stop an attacker, it will penetrate multiple interior walls. That's just physics. Any of them can over penetrate. 5.56 absolutely can as well. 

You know enough to go to the box o truth. That is a very good real world reference. 

There are many different rounds and bullets available for most cartridges, which can have a significant impact on performance as well.

Thanks for the clarification.

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