Can't decide between SVS PB-2000 or HSU VTF-3 MK4...or should I save $300 and get an HSU VTF-2 MK4? Large 6,000 cu.ft family room... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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...plus it's totally open to the kitchen and morning room on the right side, for another 5K cu.ft. Due to WAF, I'm getting one sub only. $800 max budget.

 

I might add that the sub will be in the front left corner of the room, pointing to the right. If I got an HSU VTF-3, its side-firing driver would be firing right into the wall (which has an in-wall speaker 5-feet above it) so I'm not sure if that would be an issue compared to the VTF-2's down-firing driver and the PB-2000's front-firing.

 

I had my mind made up on the SVS PB-2000 but now I'm rethinking things due to the tunability of the VTFs in this big ass room. Hmmmmm... what say the experts?

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post #2 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 02:12 PM
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If open to DIY you can crush the vtf15 with a sub slightly smaller enclosure then the hsu for under 800
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post #3 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 02:16 PM
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I think chalugadp has it right. DIY is probably the way to go. I don't know of any sub around $800 that could fill such a huge volume (I assume you meant 5k cu. ft. of extra space and not sq. ft.).
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post #4 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

I think chalugadp has it right. DIY is probably the way to go. I don't know of any sub around $800 that could fill such a huge volume (I assume you meant 5k cu. ft. of extra space and not sq. ft.).

Oops, yes both room descriptions should have been cubic feet... Edited original.

 

I don't think I'm interested in a DIY build. I want predictable results, and fit and finish is important. 

 

Important to note that wife does not like too much of the the infrasonic bass you can feel (but I love it, so I'm trying to compromise).

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post #5 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 03:03 PM
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Results would be predictable, but I understand if you want a hardwood finish and don't have the tools or knowledge to achieve one.
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post #6 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 05:26 PM
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PSA XV15 is the best you will do for output in that size room for subwoofers 800.00 or less.
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post #7 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

PSA XV15 is the best you will do for output in that size room for subwoofers 800.00 or less.

 

Hmm. Interesting. I do see some people mentioning port noise on the XV15 and I've never seen that being an issue in any SVS PB-2000 reviews. I think I've got my heart set on that PB-2000. The specs/numbers seem so damn close I doubt I'll notice anything missing from the PB. This is my first real home theater setup so I'm sure anything will sound great compared to the little Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 I have set up in the corner with its little 6.5" subwoofer! 

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post #8 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by elef3u View Post
 

 I do see some people mentioning port noise on the XV15 and I've never seen that being an issue in any SVS PB-2000 reviews. 

Personally, I don't think this is an issue with either sub.  However,  the only professional review done on the PB2000 did note a lot of port noise.  I had one and never noticed any, at any time.


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post #9 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
 

Personally, I don't think this is an issue with either sub.  However,  the only professional review done on the PB2000 did note a lot of port noise.  I had one and never noticed any, at any time.

 

Which review was this?

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post #10 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by elef3u View Post

Hmm. Interesting. I do see some people mentioning port noise on the XV15 and I've never seen that being an issue in any SVS PB-2000 reviews. I think I've got my heart set on that PB-2000. The specs/numbers seem so damn close I doubt I'll notice anything missing from the PB. This is my first real home theater setup so I'm sure anything will sound great compared to the little Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 I have set up in the corner with its little 6.5" subwoofer! 

Where did you hear this? I have only heard of one person having issues with port noise and imo it was a setup issue. Brent Butterworth @ Sound and Vision claimed the PB2000 sounded like a wheezing elephant around 20hz when it was tested. Personally I do not see either sub having port noise issues if setup correctly.
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post #11 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


Where did you hear this? I have only heard of one person having issues with port noise and imo it was a setup issue. Brent Butterworth @ Sound and Vision claimed the PB2000 sounded like a wheezing elephant around 20hz when it was tested. Personally I do not see either sub having port noise issues if setup correctly.

 

 

Here http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/xv-15-subwoofer and here http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/82624-power-sound-audio-xv-15-subwoofer-review-4.html.

 

Here's what you're talking about. Everything else he says makes me feel like I can live with it:

I did CEA-2010A measurements the same way as the SB-2000, using an Earthworks M30measurement microphone, my M-Audio Mobile Pre USB interface and the freeware CEA-2010 measurement software developed by Don Keele, which runs on the Wavemetric Igor Pro scientific software package. I took these measurements at 2 meters peak output, then scaled them up to 1-meter equivalent per CEA-2010A reporting requirements. The two sets of measurements I have presented here -- CEA-2010A and traditional method -- are functionally identical, but the traditional measurement employed by most audio websites and many manufacturers reports results at 2-meter RMS equivalent, which is -9 dB lower than CEA-2010A. An L next to the result indicates that the output was dictated by the subwoofer's internal circuitry (i.e., limiter), and not by exceeding the CEA-2010A distortion thresholds. Averages are calculated in pascals.

These are excellent output measurements for a 12-inch, $799 subwoofer. They fall roughly -4 to -6 dB shy of what I've measured from the very biggest and best subs, but the evenness of response and output throughout the sub's operating range is impressive, and the output is probably as much as even many serious home theater enthusiasts can use.

At 20 Hz, though, it does have some port noise on the CEA-2010A test. You probably won't hear this because there's so little 20 Hz content in music and movies, but with the CEA-2010A 20 Hz test tone, it sounds like a wheezing elephant.

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post #12 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 08:09 PM
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Which review was this?

The one you can access from the SVSound website, PB2000, press reviews(About), page 4.  But again, I have pushed the sub hard and never heard a whisper.  Same for the XV15, you won't get a lot of port noise from either.


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post #13 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


Where did you hear this? I have only heard of one person having issues with port noise and imo it was a setup issue. Brent Butterworth @ Sound and Vision claimed the PB2000 sounded like a wheezing elephant around 20hz when it was tested. Personally I do not see either sub having port noise issues if setup correctly.

 

Just tried to respond but my post was intercepted because I had links to outside sites where I read about the port noise on the PSA XV15. One was a Josh Ricci review of it, and the other was a couple folks mentioning it on the Audioholics subwoofer forum.

 

Anyway, Brent Butterworth didn't give the XV15 a super review... he said "While the bass didn’t sound balanced enough for Will to dig the XV15’s sound with music, Geoff and I thought it was decent." 

 

He also called the bass "brutal" and that it's a bass-lover's sub. That's not really me...I feel like I want more balanced and well-behaved bass.

 

Here's your Butterworth quote about the PB-2000...I feel like I can live with this:

 

"I did CEA-2010A measurements the same way as the SB-2000, using an Earthworks M30 measurement microphone, my M-Audio Mobile Pre USB interface and the freeware CEA-2010 measurement software developed by Don Keele, which runs on the Wavemetric Igor Pro scientific software package. I took these measurements at 2 meters peak output, then scaled them up to 1-meter equivalent per CEA-2010A reporting requirements. The two sets of measurements I have presented here -- CEA-2010A and traditional method -- are functionally identical, but the traditional measurement employed by most audio websites and many manufacturers reports results at 2-meter RMS equivalent, which is -9 dB lower than CEA-2010A. An L next to the result indicates that the output was dictated by the subwoofer's internal circuitry (i.e., limiter), and not by exceeding the CEA-2010A distortion thresholds. Averages are calculated in pascals.

These are excellent output measurements for a 12-inch, $799 subwoofer. They fall roughly -4 to -6 dB shy of what I've measured from the very biggest and best subs, but the evenness of response and output throughout the sub's operating range is impressive, and the output is probably as much as even many serious home theater enthusiasts can use.

At 20 Hz, though, it does have some port noise on the CEA-2010A test. You probably won't hear this because there's so little 20 Hz content in music and movies, but with the CEA-2010A 20 Hz test tone, it sounds like a wheezing elephant."

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post #14 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
 

The one you can access from the SVSound website, PB2000, press reviews(About), page 4.  But again, I have pushed the sub hard and never heard a whisper.  Same for the XV15, you won't get a lot of port noise from either.

 

Sweet! 

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post #15 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 08:13 PM
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He also called the bass "brutal" and that it's a bass-lover's sub. That's not really me...I feel like I want more balanced and well-behaved bass.

 

This simply means that it has more output.  If you can live with a bit less output, the PB2000 is a very good sub for the price.  A sub only puts out as much bass as you want it to.  Unless you push it too hard, then a sub with higher output will keep going, the lesser sub wont.


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post #16 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 08:43 PM
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Lol so you cherry pick part of Josh Ricci's review on the XV15 having port noise, but then you post S&V's quote about the PB2000 port noise is not a issue since not much source content resides below 20hz. Actually there are plenty of movies that dig below 20hz. Like I said port noise will not be a issue with either sub when placed in the appropiate size room and calibrated correctly. Also S&V review on the XV15 was pretty good imo. Will and Brent simply prefer sealed subs for music. Read the review on the VTF-15H where they preferred the sealed mode for music.

To be honest none of the subs mentioned would be enough sub for me in that size room. If you want a sub to play effortlessly and blend well, then you need to have a enough sub to do the job without straining to get the job done. DIY is the only option to achieve that with your budget as Chalugadp mentioned.
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post #17 of 31 Old 03-23-2014, 11:37 PM
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I like Hsu so I am certainly biased here, but if you are worried about port noise, the VTF3 would easily be the best sub from that bunch. It has two 4" ports, and the PB2000 and XV15 only have one 4" port. However, to be honest, any of these subs can be driven to overload the ports if pushed in certain respects. The advantage with Hsu is if you find chuffing a nuisance in single port mode, you can just open up the other port and flip a switch on the amp to stop it. You can also take the Q control down to .3 to reduce chuffing. You can even just keep the port plugged and switch the operating mode to 2 ports, that will reduce output from 16 to 22 Hz and eliminate chuffing in that range, that is called over-damped mode. Or you can do a combination of these things. There is no way to adjust or change the bass in the XV15 or PB2000.
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post #18 of 31 Old 03-24-2014, 07:34 AM
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I like Hsu so I am certainly biased here, but if you are worried about port noise, the VTF3 would easily be the best sub from that bunch. It has two 4" ports, and the PB2000 and XV15 only have one 4" port. However, to be honest, any of these subs can be driven to overload the ports if pushed in certain respects. The advantage with Hsu is if you find chuffing a nuisance in single port mode, you can just open up the other port and flip a switch on the amp to stop it. You can also take the Q control down to .3 to reduce chuffing. You can even just keep the port plugged and switch the operating mode to 2 ports, that will reduce output from 16 to 22 Hz and eliminate chuffing in that range, that is called over-damped mode. Or you can do a combination of these things. There is no way to adjust or change the bass in the XV15 or PB2000.

That is a good point I agree. However in a 6000^3 room any of these subs will be swallowed up unless the OP can place it nearfield. Even at that it still will not pressurize the room.
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post #19 of 31 Old 03-24-2014, 09:10 AM
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The only subs in the OPs budget that would pressurize the room are pro-audio subs, and you can kiss <40 Hz output goodbye on those things.
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post #20 of 31 Old 03-24-2014, 09:16 AM
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The only subs in the OPs budget that would pressurize the room are pro-audio subs, and you can kiss <40 Hz output goodbye on those things.

what about a pair of PA150's? I know not a lot of output below 30hz, but it might be the best of both worlds?
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what about a pair of PA150's? I know not a lot of output below 30hz, but it might be the best of both worlds?

They will work but looking at their distortion charts and basic response measurements make me cringe.
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post #22 of 31 Old 03-24-2014, 10:18 AM
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They will work but looking at their distortion charts and basic response measurements make me cringe.

yea very good point...after looking at those measurements i will refrain from mentioning that sub again. lol
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After calling both SVS and Hsu I'm still undecided between the PB-2000 and VTF 3 v4. It'd be great if there was someone who's heard both. I'm sure either one will be phenomenal given that it'll be my first HT setup. For some reason my guy says go with the PB-2000...but the only thing that's stopping me is the tunability of the VTF and not knowing how much it could actually benefit me...
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^^ once it is set, I never changed the tuning. From what I ve been reading, the vtf3.4 seems to be a better choice between the two.
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post #25 of 31 Old 03-24-2014, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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^^ once it is set, I never changed the tuning. From what I ve been reading, the vtf3.4 seems to be a better choice between the two.

 

I hear you. To open up another can of worms, is there any discussion on the older 350W BASH, vs the newer SLEDGE in 500W?

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post #26 of 31 Old 03-24-2014, 12:09 PM
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^^ probably in the SVS owner thread but according to SVS, the sledge amp is better.
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post #27 of 31 Old 03-24-2014, 12:22 PM
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^^ once it is set, I never changed the tuning. From what I ve been reading, the vtf3.4 seems to be a better choice between the two.

The ability to tune a sub is a nice feature to have when doing an initial integration into an area, even for the set-it-and-forget-it crowd. It allows to user to choose the best settings to provide the desired response in a variety of rooms.

A Nice Radio Station with Great Music. For Those That Like That Sort of Thing: RadioParadise.com

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post #28 of 31 Old 03-24-2014, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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There we go!

 

Within a week I'll be running a Marantz SR5008 with GoldenEar Invisa MPX fronts, SuperSat 50 center, Invisa 650 rear, and an SVS PB-2000 to top it off. Just waiting on the MPXs and the sub!

 

Excited is an understatement :eek:

 

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post #29 of 31 Old 03-24-2014, 01:17 PM
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congrats! Hopefully it is enough sub for you. smile.gif
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post #30 of 31 Old 04-09-2014, 12:18 AM
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Would love to hear an update on this after you received your sub!
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