NEW "BEST UNDER $800 SUB ENTERS THE MIX" - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 10:20 AM
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PSA XV 15
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post #32 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by destiny 21 View Post

PSA XV 15


Hi all, just a quick heads-up per the "$800" ceiling. Pricing increases are on the horizon for the entire Power-X product lineup. Jim and I still have to find time to "huddle" on this issue so I can't say exactly how much things will be increasing or when for that matter. But a good guess will be in the next 30 days(ish).

We have been absorbing pricing increases from our vendors for the past 18 months or so. In the past we found ways to avoid raising prices(eliminating the "base" for example) but it seems inevitable at this point.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #33 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Cel and Shady  et al.  I'm thinking hard about the SVS, it's in the top three!  OH BTW CEL, do you know of any EQ that I haven't heard about??Do you use an eq?

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post #34 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh my!  Hi Tom, please sell me and on which one please.

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post #35 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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One last thing Tom...What is your  PSA factor bases on?  ( Gee I'm so tempted to make a medical male type joke here but I'll be good).  Why should I buy yours as opposed to the HSU or the SVS?

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post #36 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 11:00 AM
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I'm not sure if Mini DSP EQs below 20hz, but worth looking into. Then you get the mic to go with it so you can take readings and adjust it.

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post #37 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I'm not sure if Mini DSP EQs below 20hz, but worth looking into. Then you get the mic to go with it so you can take readings and adjust it.

It does.....I had to cut 5 dB at 12 Hz or so to EQ my sub flat.


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post #38 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 12:28 PM
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just buy the xv15 and end it . then start feeling the lfe in movies. I would pay a 1000 dollars for this sub all day. get it you will be really happy
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post #39 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by markbark View Post

 I have a small room 13X11 X8.  I like a tight sound and not  overly concerned with SPL but I am concerned with low bass extension  Ok I'll fess up, I like organ music and don't enjoy Rap or buildings exploding so you can gather I will use it far more for music then movies lol.  

 

 

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Originally Posted by destiny 21 View Post

just buy the xv15 and end it . then start feeling the lfe in movies. I would pay a 1000 dollars for this sub all day. get it you will be really happy

Feel free to recommend any option, but read the OP's interests before making suggestions for something he is not chasing.  His situation screams for a sealed sub with a shallow roll off.  Granted, the XV15 has decent output around 16 Hz, but with ported subs you have to consider the possibility of port noise with content around or slightly below port tune.  Not sure how loud you would have to play before this became an issue, but a sealed sub will not have any chuffing or port noise on low frequency content, especially if there is not a lot of other content to mask.

 

Biggest reason I bring this up is due to a song that was recently sugggest on the song of the day forum called "The Bass Will Destroy You", not classical organ music, but it has a lot of sub 20 Hz content, and most ported sub owners stated they got a lot of port noise and chuffing playing a song like this with so much content in the teens.  A sealed sub will play it clean  up to its output limit.


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post #40 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I'm not sure I would buy a huge sub just to playback that very occasional and uncommon low note unless I were a devoted pipe organ enthusiast. Hsu ships a demo disc with their subs that have a pipe organ recording of Saint-Saëns with a tremendous, sustained 16 Hz fundamental. I ought to check out a spectral graph of that tune sometime.

I would! I have a subwoofer (Kinergetics SW-120, from 1997) that goes down to 25 Hz, with a rapid rolloff from there. It handles explosions and bass drums satisfactorily for my taste. The only reason to get another subwoofer would be to go significantly lower. I'm shopping for one, so I've been following this and similar threads closely, and I've been scouring the AVS archives. I haven't heard the particular recording of Saint-Saens Organ Symphony that's on the BAS disc, but it's worth pointing out that the organ passage in question is marked "pp" in the score (pianissimo -- very quiet). Of the standard recordings of the complete symphony in my collection, Eschenbach's SACD with the Philadelphia Orchestra on Ondine has the best sound generally and best of the organ, at least to the limits of my Kinergetics. I hope to hear the 16 Hz before I die.
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post #41 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbark View Post

One last thing Tom...What is your  PSA factor bases on?  ( Gee I'm so tempted to make a medical male type joke here but I'll be good).  Why should I buy yours as opposed to the HSU or the SVS?

His PSA factor is based on averaging out CEA output measurements. It's a bogus metric which is there to mask a poor burst response shape. It's marketing hype designed to fool less technically inclined people, don't fall for it. Here is the real performance measurements for the XV15, undistorted by number juggling.
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post

Biggest reason I bring this up is due to a song that was recently sugggest on the song of the day forum called "The Bass Will Destroy You", not classical organ music, but it has a lot of sub 20 Hz content, and most ported sub owners stated they got a lot of port noise and chuffing playing a song like this with so much content in the teens.  A sealed sub will play it clean  up to its output limit.

Bear, just because a sub doesn't have ports doesn't mean it's guaranteed to have clean playback. In fact, it usually means you will have much more distorted playback down low. Remember that for every octave that the sub driver has to playback at an equal loudness, you need four times the excursion. The more excursion a driver is subjected to, the greater the distortion. As an example, compare the PB12 NSD distortion vs the SB12 NSD:


While it's true the SB12 will have less output down low so it's distortion will not as easily be heard, it still is plagued by distortion, and will essentially be useless for >100 dB output below 30 Hz unless you get amazing room gain. There is virtually no sealed sub which could do justice to "Bass Will Destroy You", maybe a JTR Cap S2, maybe. Remember that the PB12 handles deep bass with much less distortion than the XV15, now imagine how a XS15 would fare. It would get murdered by that tune.
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post #42 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calypte View Post

Of the standard recordings of the complete symphony in my collection, Eschenbach's SACD with the Philadelphia Orchestra on Ondine has the best sound generally and best of the organ, at least to the limits of my Kinergetics. I hope to hear the 16 Hz before I die.

That is the same SACD I have. I think it's wonderful, and I'm thankful that I have it in my classical collection. Along with the fantastic Saint Saen's "Organ Symphony No. 3 in C minor, Op. 78", this SACD also has Samuel Barber's "Toccata Festiva, Op. 36" and Francis Poulenc's "Concerto in G minor". The 2-minute sustained 16 Hz organ pedal was on Francis Poulenc's "Tempo Introduction Largo" (track #8 on Concerto in G minor). Very low volume piece that had me yawning (not from boredom, but from trying to get my ears to unplug from the pressure).
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post #43 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 02:37 PM
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I would go for the SVS SB2000.


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post #44 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calypte View Post

I would! I have a subwoofer (Kinergetics SW-120, from 1997) that goes down to 25 Hz, with a rapid rolloff from there. It handles explosions and bass drums satisfactorily for my taste. The only reason to get another subwoofer would be to go significantly lower. I'm shopping for one, so I've been following this and similar threads closely, and I've been scouring the AVS archives. I haven't heard the particular recording of Saint-Saens Organ Symphony that's on the BAS disc, but it's worth pointing out that the organ passage in question is marked "pp" in the score (pianissimo -- very quiet). Of the standard recordings of the complete symphony in my collection, Eschenbach's SACD with the Philadelphia Orchestra on Ondine has the best sound generally and best of the organ, at least to the limits of my Kinergetics. I hope to hear the 16 Hz before I die.

You have inspired me to take a spectral analysis of the Organ Symphony recording. I have posted it here. Really beautiful piece of music.
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post #45 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

The 2-minute sustained 16 Hz organ pedal was on Francis Poulenc's "Tempo Introduction Largo" (track #8 on Concerto in G minor). Very low volume piece that had me yawning (not from boredom, but from trying to get my ears to unplug from the pressure).
Another reason for me to get a sub that goes lower than my Kinergetics! The Poulenc piece has long been a favorite of mine, but I've never heard the note you mention, even though (based upon your testimony) it's right there on a recording I own. With all due respect to the many knowledgeable low-bass enthusiasts in this forum, I rarely see comparative references to subwoofer performance in music that interests me.
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post #46 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

That is the same SACD I have. I think it's wonderful, and I'm thankful that I have it in my classical collection. Along with the fantastic Saint Saen's "Organ Symphony No. 3 in C minor, Op. 78", this SACD also has Samuel Barber's "Toccata Festiva, Op. 36" and Francis Poulenc's "Concerto in G minor". The 2-minute sustained 16 Hz organ pedal was on Francis Poulenc's "Tempo Introduction Largo" (track #8 on Concerto in G minor). Very low volume piece that had me yawning (not from boredom, but from trying to get my ears to unplug from the pressure).
Mr. Russell: what subwoofer do you have? I see your city (Corona, CA), which means you are within decent driving distance of Hsu. I live in Anza, CA, and Hsu's location and the possibility of hearing their products in person would be a distinct plus for me.
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post #47 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calypte View Post

Mr. Russell: what subwoofer do you have? I see your city (Corona, CA), which means you are within decent driving distance of Hsu. I live in Anza, CA, and Hsu's location and the possibility of hearing their products in person would be a distinct plus for me.

I own the SVS SB13-Ultra for music and the PSA XS30 for movies. I live a little over 12 miles from Hsu Research and auditioned their ULS-15 at their showroom. I also did a home audition of the ULS-15 shortly thereafter (along with SVS's SB13-Ultra). I then did a home audition of PSA's XS30. Hey, I had to be sure smile.gif. Anyway, all three performed extremely well on this SACD and all caused pressure to my ears on that piece. PM me if you have any questions (I don't want to sideline this thread too much).
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post #48 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

I own the SVS SB13-Ultra for music and the PSA XS30 for movies. I live a little over 12 miles from Hsu Research and auditioned their ULS-15 at their showroom. I also did a home audition of the ULS-15 shortly thereafter (along with SVS's SB13-Ultra). I then did a home audition of PSA's XS30. Hey, I had to be sure smile.gif. Anyway, all three performed extremely well on this SACD and all caused pressure to my ears on that piece. PM me if you have any questions (I don't want to sideline this thread too much).
I re-listened to the Poulenc, and I hear the sustained pedal, in the respect that I hear a tone, but it's probably a harmonic, not the 16 Hz. Some people might be impressed, but it's not good enough for me. Thank you for your comments.
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post #49 of 85 Old 03-30-2014, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The difference is between them is mostly extension power. In single port mode, the VTF3 can hit 16 Hz at 108.4 dB in CEA testing, whereas the VTF2 hits 103.7. That is almost, but not quite, double the output. That is mainly due to the VTF3s large ports and enclosure. Above that point there is not such a great difference. If you are after 16 Hz specifically, go for the VTF3. If you don't need massive 16 Hz output, the VTF2 ought to do very well.

This. If you want to reach down to 16, at this price point, the HSU VTF3 is your best choice for extension and for tune-ability, IMO.
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post #50 of 85 Old 03-31-2014, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

Hi all, just a quick heads-up per the "$800" ceiling. Pricing increases are on the horizon for the entire Power-X product lineup. Jim and I still have to find time to "huddle" on this issue so I can't say exactly how much things will be increasing or when for that matter. But a good guess will be in the next 30 days(ish).

We have been absorbing pricing increases from our vendors for the past 18 months or so. In the past we found ways to avoid raising prices(eliminating the "base" for example) but it seems inevitable at this point.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

That's not good news. I'm waiting for my epik legend to die and am considering a XV15 as a possible replacement. Hopefully it will die in the next 30 days(ish).
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post #51 of 85 Old 03-31-2014, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

That's not good news. I'm waiting for my epik legend to die and am considering a XV15 as a possible replacement. Hopefully it will die in the next 30 days(ish).

Every cloud has a silver lining...smile.gif

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post #52 of 85 Old 03-31-2014, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

That's not good news. I'm waiting for my epik legend to die and am considering a XV15 as a possible replacement. Hopefully it will die in the next 30 days(ish).

Buy the XV15 now and sell the legend for 300.00 before it dies to recoop some cost. smile.gif
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post #53 of 85 Old 04-01-2014, 09:47 AM
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Buy the XV15 now and sell the legend for 300.00 before it dies to recoop some cost. smile.gif

I doubt I could get $300 and I don't want to sell something I know is failure prone. I'll just use it until it fails. Maybe it will last another 5 years.
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post #54 of 85 Old 04-01-2014, 02:12 PM
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I doubt I could get $300 and I don't want to sell something I know is failure prone. I'll just use it until it fails. Maybe it will last another 5 years.

Epik legends are selling all day long for 300.00, but to each is own.
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post #55 of 85 Old 04-01-2014, 03:10 PM
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There is a bitter sweet relationship with Empire/Legend owners. Unless you have experienced one for extended listening, you cannot begin to appreciate the sound quality and performance.smile.gif

Politics is like religion. You never know who you serve.
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post #56 of 85 Old 04-01-2014, 07:13 PM
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There is a bitter sweet relationship with Empire/Legend owners. Unless you have experienced one for extended listening, you cannot begin to appreciate the sound quality and performance.smile.gif

a fried of mine bought a pair of legends for 600.00. He sold them 3 weeks later...They do sound good not bashing, just not at a XV15 level in terms of output, depth, and sound quality.

He invested that money into a pair of SI 18's stuffed in Marty Cube downfiring enclosures, powered by a Inuke 3000dsp. I have not made it over to hear them yet, but I am sure they are going to impress. smile.gif
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post #57 of 85 Old 04-01-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

a fried of mine bought a pair of legends for 600.00. He sold them 3 weeks later...They do sound good not bashing, just not at a XV15 level in terms of output, depth, and sound quality.

He invested that money into a pair of SI 18's stuffed in Marty Cube downfiring enclosures, powered by a Inuke 3000dsp. I have not made it over to hear them yet, but I am sure they are going to impress. smile.gif
blah blah blah blah blah. The nerve! I owned an XS15 and it was no Empire in terms of sound quality. As for output, perhaps better low end if that is your cup of tea.

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post #58 of 85 Old 04-01-2014, 07:55 PM
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One of these http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-18-reference-series-ho-subwoofer-and-cabinet-package--300-7094 plus http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/790558-REG/Behringer_NU3000DSP_iNUKE_NU3000DSP_Stereo_Power.htm/prm/alsVwDtl and some glue, connectors and paint.....

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post #59 of 85 Old 04-01-2014, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrischestnut60 View Post

blah blah blah blah blah. The nerve! I owned an XS15 and it was no Empire in terms of sound quality. As for output, perhaps better low end if that is your cup of tea.

Why are you getting upset? Where did I say Empire? I was talking about the legend, which is what Kidhorn has...don't get your fancy panties is a bunch.
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post #60 of 85 Old 04-01-2014, 09:01 PM
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Upset? eek.gif. Is it the lack of a smile.gif? Lol. Too wordy for me. And yeah don't mention the Epiks and those lowly Power X subs in the same breadth.

Politics is like religion. You never know who you serve.
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