Accurate or simply maximize the experience - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 Old 04-11-2014, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
Okv
Member
 
Okv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Aalesund, Norway
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 36
What is the goal - the most accurate reproduction, like the producer meant it to be, or simply set up your system to give the best experience.

To me, I have actually not considered the "accurate" path to be something to strive for when it comes to low frequency reproduction for movies, and that is for a number of reasons.

I was trying to demonstrate differences in tactile feel caused by differences in sound field intensity, when one of the persons attending made the comment "..yes, different, but how is it meant to be..".
(Audiophiles are unfortunately very often more interested in how things has to be "right", like it is meant to be, rather than seeking the best experience..)
To me, that does not make much sense, as whatever makes the experience of that spaceship landing more physical and realistic, is the one I would choose, regardless of what the producer heard in the studio.

To make the reproduction "accurate", you must then mimic the situation in the studio - same frequency response, same playback level.
However, there are tricks you can do to make the experience different according to taste, and in many cases it will then be perceived as a better experience.
As an example - I am not sure I would want a 30Hz cut-off.
Okv is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 04-11-2014, 02:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
Jahjd2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 551
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 71
You know I wondered this myself. I will opine and say most users here will likely say 'accurate'. For me, I see benefits of both options. I think a parallel is if users run their speakers analog or through their AVR with Audyssey enabled. While I'm on the fence, what I will say is I would never buy speakers that I thought colored the sound.

Sharp LC70SQ15U
Denon 4311ci
Ascend Acoustics Towers (NrT)
Ascend Horizon Center (NrT)
Definitive Technology Surrounds BP1.2X
Rythmik E15HP
Epik Empire
Jahjd2000 is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 04-11-2014, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
Okv
Member
 
Okv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Aalesund, Norway
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 36
But what is "accurate".
Is it to reproduce like the producer heard it, or is it to reproduce what is in the recording - regardless of whether it was intended or just left there by accident.

In the Kon-Tiki storm scene, it can feel like the whole room moves, to reproduce it like that requires two things - enough output at low frequencies down to at least well below 20hz, and a floor and furniture that is not too rigid.
This scene will sound very different on a system with a cut-off above 20hz.
And it will sound more physical and tactile with a boost at the very lowest frequencies, which will likely not be more "accurate".
But it will add to the experience.
Okv is offline  
post #4 of 24 Old 04-11-2014, 09:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
charmerci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 618
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 87
I'd much rather experience accurate. Having said that, it's because my preference is for the music experience.

Now, if you're into movies, I think it's different in the sense that those explosions, earthquakes, rockets, etc. were sounds that were created/modified in the sound room. They really don't exist in their "natural" state, i.e. frequencies and levels are boosted.
charmerci is online now  
post #5 of 24 Old 04-12-2014, 06:11 AM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 694
Quote:
Originally Posted by charmerci View Post

I'd much rather experience accurate. Having said that, it's because my preference is for the music experience.

Now, if you're into movies, I think it's different in the sense that those explosions, earthquakes, rockets, etc. were sounds that were created/modified in the sound room. They really don't exist in their "natural" state, i.e. frequencies and levels are boosted.

+1. Reproduce bass so that Ray Brown playing his bass sounds like Ray Brown playing his bass. I have no idea what a particular explosion should sound like in a movie but it's ok with me as long as I can hear Ray properly doing his thing. Having heard many real explosions in wartime, I can tell you that the long drawn out explosions you hear in movies aren't realistic. The sound of an artillery shell exploding nearby is of shorter duration and more muffled than what you hear in movies. I'll opt for Ray Brown.
FMW is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 04-12-2014, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
Okv
Member
 
Okv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Aalesund, Norway
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 36
For music, you have a reference for how the instrument is supposed to sound like, at least you had some 20-30 years ago, before computers and electronica.
Drums and bass guitars do not have that much energy at very low frequencies either, so it is fair to assume that it is possible to hear this in any good studio - a studio that has real monitors and not tiny plastic boxes.

The effects in movies are from real world events, we often have an idea how they sound like.
So, if we tune our system so that the effects sounds more realistic, but maybe not quite like the producer heard it, is that better?

Explosions in movies are not realistic, and that is good, I would not want a "realistic" explosion in my living room.
Some effects can however sound like small copies from real world events.
Some of the cannons in M&C are good, they have a short, powerful thump, like a small, distant real-world cannon.
Okv is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 04-12-2014, 09:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jack D Ripper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Burpelson Air Force Base
Posts: 1,136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by charmerci View Post

I'd much rather experience accurate. Having said that, it's because my preference is for the music experience.

Now, if you're into movies, I think it's different in the sense that those explosions, earthquakes, rockets, etc. were sounds that were created/modified in the sound room. They really don't exist in their "natural" state, i.e. frequencies and levels are boosted.

+1. Reproduce bass so that Ray Brown playing his bass sounds like Ray Brown playing his bass. I have no idea what a particular explosion should sound like in a movie but it's ok with me as long as I can hear Ray properly doing his thing. Having heard many real explosions in wartime, I can tell you that the long drawn out explosions you hear in movies aren't realistic. The sound of an artillery shell exploding nearby is of shorter duration and more muffled than what you hear in movies. I'll opt for Ray Brown.

That is what I want, too. But others are free to do as they please, as long as they are not bothering anyone else (like their neighbors).

As for this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okv View Post

...
(Audiophiles are unfortunately very often more interested in how things has to be "right", like it is meant to be, rather than seeking the best experience..)
To me, that does not make much sense, as whatever makes the experience of that spaceship landing more physical and realistic, is the one I would choose, regardless of what the producer heard in the studio.
...
That is pretty nonsensical. They are giving you pure fiction and fantasy, not anything close to something realistic. Realistic is no aliens visiting us or us traveling the vast distances of space. It took Voyager 1 over 30 years to leave the solar system. That is reality.

Typically, the sound effects in movies are pure fiction, and have nothing whatever to do with reality, even when they are supposedly depicting something real. Gunshots do not sound the same in real life as they are typically represented in movies. Nor do they have the same impact in real life as they often do in movies. For example, in many movies, a person flies back when hit by a bullet from a hand-held gun. The thing is, the force of the bullet on impact will be less than the kick from the gun, because the bullet is slowing down due to air resistance as soon as it leaves the barrel of the gun. If the bullet had enough force to cause the person hit to fly backwards, the person firing the gun would be pushed harder. So your idea of "more physical" is commonly contrary to being more realistic.

God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.
Jack D Ripper is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 04-12-2014, 06:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
charmerci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 618
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 87
One thing that really bothers me about movies is explosions in space. There is no air....therefore you can't hear something blowing up in space. Pet peeve of mine.
audiofan1 likes this.
charmerci is online now  
post #9 of 24 Old 04-12-2014, 07:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jack D Ripper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Burpelson Air Force Base
Posts: 1,136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by charmerci View Post

One thing that really bothers me about movies is explosions in space. There is no air....therefore you can't hear something blowing up in space. Pet peeve of mine.

Not only that, but they often have the spaceships bank in turns as if they were using their "wings" for lift. And they typically encounter other spaceships with everyone "right side up." And in many, they "stop" in space. Really, most space movies are incredibly stupid. They make them as if they were in the atmosphere of the earth, rather than in the vacuum of space, that has no up or down.
audiofan1 likes this.

God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.
Jack D Ripper is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 04-12-2014, 07:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bill Fitzmaurice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 9,475
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

Not only that, but they often have the spaceships bank in turns as if they were using their "wings" for lift. And they typically encounter other spaceships with everyone "right side up." And in many, they "stop" in space. Really, most space movies are incredibly stupid. They make them as if they were in the atmosphere of the earth, rather than in the vacuum of space, that has no up or down.
Really. They play chess in three dimensions, but treat space as if it had only two dimensions. Fun to watch, but hardly accurate.
audiofan1 likes this.

Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design

The Laws of Physics aren't swayed by opinion.
Bill Fitzmaurice is online now  
post #11 of 24 Old 04-12-2014, 08:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
charmerci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 618
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

Not only that, but they often have the spaceships bank in turns as if they were using their "wings" for lift. And they typically encounter other spaceships with everyone "right side up." And in many, they "stop" in space. Really, most space movies are incredibly stupid. They make them as if they were in the atmosphere of the earth, rather than in the vacuum of space, that has no up or down.

Actually, I have no problem with everyone "right side up." cool.gif It'd be kind of disconcerting to have faces and bodies strewn higgledy-piggledy all over the big screen.
charmerci is online now  
post #12 of 24 Old 04-12-2014, 08:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
jchong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okv View Post

But what is "accurate".
Is it to reproduce like the producer heard it, or is it to reproduce what is in the recording - regardless of whether it was intended or just left there by accident.

Wouldn't the two be about the same thing? Namely what the producer heard is what is encoded in the disc.

Now whether your system/room can reproduce back the encoded recording to what the producer heard is another thing altogether.
jchong is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 04-12-2014, 08:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
jchong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D Ripper View Post

Typically, the sound effects in movies are pure fiction, and have nothing whatever to do with reality, even when they are supposedly depicting something real.

No argument there.

But I think the question asked by the OP is not related to realism. Realism would depend on the objective of the sound designer/producer/director - if they wanted realism certainly they could design the soundtrack that way. Of course some sounds (like laser beams, light sabers, etc) are pure fiction and what we hear is an invention of the sound designer.

Anyway, as to the original question by the OP - I'm leaning towards accurate. If for whatever reason the soundtrack has a filter or the levels are boosted, etc. I will attribute that to artistic intent of the sound designer/producer/director. I might not like it or agree with it, but at least I'd like my system to be able to reproduce that accurately.
jchong is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 04-13-2014, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
Okv
Member
 
Okv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Aalesund, Norway
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Wouldn't the two be about the same thing? Namely what the producer heard is what is encoded in the disc.

Now whether your system/room can reproduce back the encoded recording to what the producer heard is another thing altogether.

And here is the problem.
What the producer heard and what is on the disc is not the same.

If you play back with sufficient capacity down to the lowest frequencies and the system is properly set-up, it will certainly be different from a reproduction with a cut-off at say 30Hz.
There is a major difference between 20hz and 30hz capacity, and even 20 to say 15hz makes a significant difference.
Some will say extension down below 10hz also makes a big difference, but everyone that has experienced it will agree that there is a big difference once you reach down to below 20hz with enough capacity.

And no standards exists for how to properly set up the system, because you have to account for room size and intensity of the acoustic sound field, current practices only measure spl as pressure, and even though there now is general acceptance for a sloping frequency response, the additional 'house-curve' raise at the lowest frequencies is not regarded as the 'accurate' or 'correct', even if this is necessary for the perception of low frequencies to be similar in rooms and spaces of different size.
Okv is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 04-13-2014, 04:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
jchong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okv View Post

And here is the problem.
What the producer heard and what is on the disc is not the same.

If you play back with sufficient capacity down to the lowest frequencies and the system is properly set-up, it will certainly be different from a reproduction with a cut-off at say 30Hz.
There is a major difference between 20hz and 30hz capacity, and even 20 to say 15hz makes a significant difference.

Why do you mention the "cut-off at say 30Hz"? Are you saying that all movies are cut off at that freq?

If let's say a movie was cut-off at 30Hz deliberately, then wouldn't that be part of the intent of the producer/sound designer? He might have heard the unfiltered track then decided to put in a 30Hz filter and listen to that again. If that gets his seal of approval to be put into a bluray, then wouldn't you say what the producer heard and what is on the disc is essentially the same?
jchong is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 04-13-2014, 05:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JHAz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,906
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Why do you mention the "cut-off at say 30Hz"? Are you saying that all movies are cut off at that freq?

If let's say a movie was cut-off at 30Hz deliberately, then wouldn't that be part of the intent of the producer/sound designer? He might have heard the unfiltered track then decided to put in a 30Hz filter and listen to that again. If that gets his seal of approval to be put into a bluray, then wouldn't you say what the producer heard and what is on the disc is essentially the same?

ah,baby, them's fightin words. Check out the movies with bass thread.

Bottom line, if the sound effects designers didn't put in the deep stuff (or filtered what was there) or the mixing engineer(s) filtered deep stuff that was in what the designers created, it's at least fair to say that's what the producer, et al. heard and intended. But if a movie was remastered after the theatrical cut was made, that work might have entirely bypassed the mixers and producers, and any fiddling with the low end would, by definition, not comport with the intentions of the producer, et al. if they never heard it. The only case in point that sticks in my head is Master and Commander which loses, IIRC, at least an octave of low end extension when you compare the DVD (more bass) to the BluRay (less bass). AFAIK nobody has ever expressed an official reason for, uh, castrating the track on BD. And FTR, I am not a huge low end aficianado if for no other reason than my current system can't handle big deep sounds without distracting levels of distortion.
JHAz is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 04-13-2014, 05:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
jchong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okv View Post

And no standards exists for how to properly set up the system, because you have to account for room size and intensity of the acoustic sound field, current practices only measure spl as pressure, and even though there now is general acceptance for a sloping frequency response, the additional 'house-curve' raise at the lowest frequencies is not regarded as the 'accurate' or 'correct', even if this is necessary for the perception of low frequencies to be similar in rooms and spaces of different size.

There are some guidelines for system set-up, e.g. Dolby or THX for speaker placement and cross over settings. Of course these alone may not be enough to ensure that your system in your room or living hall will sound exactly the same as the mixing stage.

As for the issue of the 'house curve' - I wonder if this is an industry sanctioned practice or just something adopted by enthusiasts? Another poster once mentioned that it is likely the sound designer already took this into consideration when he designs low frequencies. For example the sound designer would have set the level for an explosion to give him the impact he wanted (as he perceives it in his mixing stage). That is encoded into the bluray.

When it gets to a person he might feel the explosion doesn't have enough impact. This could be due to different reasons like not enough subwoofers, subwoofer not capable enough, the room is too big, there are nulls and dips, etc. So the person adds his own house curve to compensate. At the heart of this, the real issue is whether your system/room can reproduce the system/room where the sound design was made/heard.
jchong is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 04-13-2014, 05:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
jchong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

ah,baby, them's fightin words. Check out the movies with bass thread.

Bottom line, if the sound effects designers didn't put in the deep stuff (or filtered what was there) or the mixing engineer(s) filtered deep stuff that was in what the designers created, it's at least fair to say that's what the producer, et al. heard and intended. But if a movie was remastered after the theatrical cut was made, that work might have entirely bypassed the mixers and producers, and any fiddling with the low end would, by definition, not comport with the intentions of the producer, et al. if they never heard it. The only case in point that sticks in my head is Master and Commander which loses, IIRC, at least an octave of low end extension when you compare the DVD (more bass) to the BluRay (less bass). AFAIK nobody has ever expressed an official reason for, uh, castrating the track on BD. And FTR, I am not a huge low end aficianado if for no other reason than my current system can't handle big deep sounds without distracting levels of distortion.

I have read the movies with bass thread and I know it can be a touchy subject.

As you said, in the whole process the sound mix can pass through many hands and may be altered (for reasons unknown to us) such that it does not match the producers intent. We normally have no way of knowing this unless we have different versions to compare (e.g. M&C DVD vs bluray). This is something that goes on within the industry that we have no control over.
jchong is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 04-13-2014, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
Okv
Member
 
Okv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Aalesund, Norway
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Why do you mention the "cut-off at say 30Hz"? Are you saying that all movies are cut off at that freq?

If let's say a movie was cut-off at 30Hz deliberately, then wouldn't that be part of the intent of the producer/sound designer? He might have heard the unfiltered track then decided to put in a 30Hz filter and listen to that again. If that gets his seal of approval to be put into a bluray, then wouldn't you say what the producer heard and what is on the disc is essentially the same?

The problem is that the studio used for production may not reproduce much below 30hz.
The installations simply does not have the required capacity and extension.

Then it would need proper set-up as well, and since there are no standards describing how this should be done, it is likely that it will be equalized to a flat response, measured by a microphone at some listening position, and thus there will be no compensation for room size.

So it is likely that in many studios there will be no difference by filtering at say 30hz, and there are several confirmed examples of this practice.
I do not think this is done to suit reproduction on small home systems - even the simplest system will have a lf filter to protect, the movie does not need any filtering - it is simply because the producer can not perceive any difference.

If a producer experiences a sound effect that has full bandwidth, on something that is capable of reproducing at least some of it, the difference is very real and not subtle at all, and would of course want this in the movie. That some playback systems will have a hard time reproducing it would not be of concern.

Avatar is an example of a movie where the bass would be so much better if it had more extension down low and more dynamics.
Okv is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 04-13-2014, 06:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JHAz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,906
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Afaik for their multiple million dollars every movie soundstage meets the x curve from 20-20000Hz. What systems remasting outfits use is unknown though.
JHAz is offline  
post #21 of 24 Old 04-13-2014, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
Okv
Member
 
Okv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Aalesund, Norway
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

There are some guidelines for system set-up, e.g. Dolby or THX for speaker placement and cross over settings. Of course these alone may not be enough to ensure that your system in your room or living hall will sound exactly the same as the mixing stage.

As for the issue of the 'house curve' - I wonder if this is an industry sanctioned practice or just something adopted by enthusiasts? Another poster once mentioned that it is likely the sound designer already took this into consideration when he designs low frequencies. For example the sound designer would have set the level for an explosion to give him the impact he wanted (as he perceives it in his mixing stage). That is encoded into the bluray.

When it gets to a person he might feel the explosion doesn't have enough impact. This could be due to different reasons like not enough subwoofers, subwoofer not capable enough, the room is too big, there are nulls and dips, etc. So the person adds his own house curve to compensate. At the heart of this, the real issue is whether your system/room can reproduce the system/room where the sound design was made/heard.

Well, at for movies at least there is a standard, and that alone is a good start.
For reasons I have already mentioned, there will be differences when it comes to low frequency reproduction, because the guidelines does not cover all necessary issues.

I do not believe the house curve is an industry standard, and i do not believe any monitoring studio or movie would be set up like this.
Those venues are set up by professionals, using established standards and guidelines, and the house curve is not based on much more than some enthusiasts just preferring it this way, there is no proven scientific background.

Adding more level (as in, increasing bass/lf) when its already overloaded will only smear the punch from say a cannon over a longer time period, and thus it will actually get louder across that larger time period, but it will not add any more punch.
Okv is offline  
post #22 of 24 Old 04-13-2014, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
Okv
Member
 
Okv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Aalesund, Norway
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Afaik for their multiple million dollars every movie soundstage meets the x curve from 20-20000Hz. What systems remasting outfits use is unknown though.

I am not so sure about that.
Okv is offline  
post #23 of 24 Old 04-13-2014, 06:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
jchong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okv View Post

The problem is that the studio used for production may not reproduce much below 30hz.
The installations simply does not have the required capacity and extension.

Then it would need proper set-up as well, and since there are no standards describing how this should be done, it is likely that it will be equalized to a flat response, measured by a microphone at some listening position, and thus there will be no compensation for room size.

So it is likely that in many studios there will be no difference by filtering at say 30hz, and there are several confirmed examples of this practice.

Firstly, I think you're speculating that "the studio used for production may not reproduce much below 30hz". Do you have any sources to back up your statement?

Good studios do have the required capacity and extension. You can read about Todd AO here: http://www.bagend.com/todd-aowest.htm Read this also: http://www.soundandvision.com/content/way-down-deep-ii-bag-end-s21e (the last paragraph about what was used to mix Black Hawk Down). I'm sure Skywalker Sound is also equally capable.

As for proper set up and standards, I do not know though it's likely that there are guidelines (but which might not be public knowledge).
jchong is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old 04-14-2014, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
Okv
Member
 
Okv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Aalesund, Norway
Posts: 156
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 36
These are some very nice speakers, and I bet they sound accurate, has the right punch, and is very powerful.
They are also professional speakers, so that they actually come with a specification, which makes it possible to predict the output.

The problem is that the studios often are a bit larger than the typical small home theater, and that requires a lot more displacement.
Monitor speakers systems are typically dimensioned for lots of output in the mid and upper bass, while the low frequencies suffer.
The Bag-End is specified for 109dB at 20Hz, a reasonable and believable number.
Many systems are ported, with a tuning well above 20Hz, which makes for less output at the very lowest frequencies.

If the room is 5x7x3m and there are 6 units with 109dB output at 20Hz, they can barely reach reference, and the output will drop fast below that.
Still, a very nice set-up, and this spl estimate is only an example and may be far from what the actual response in that studio is.
Okv is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off