Sub Upgrade Curiosity - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 152 Old 04-27-2014, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
mijotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 58
In addition to post #90, If I end up getting a bigger, deeper, louder sub, will the AVR just turn it down or keep it low anyways so that it doesn't drown out any of the speakers? I don't something that's going to drown out the speakers but I also don't want to get a new bigger sub but have it turned down to a "smaller" sub either...

mijotter is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 152 Old 04-27-2014, 11:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bond 007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 827
The only reason a sub and speakers will drown each other out is if you set them up poorly.

No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!
Bond 007 is offline  
post #93 of 152 Old 04-27-2014, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
mijotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 58
They're setup how they should be I just don't want the AVR to downgrade the highend sub at all....this won't happen?

mijotter is offline  
post #94 of 152 Old 04-27-2014, 11:46 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bond 007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 827
I dont know what you mean by downgrade. The sub and speakers dont play the same frequencies.

No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!
Bond 007 is offline  
post #95 of 152 Old 04-27-2014, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
mijotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 58
No I know that, I guess to compensate for older speakers. I have Infinity OWS-1's as my surrounds and my center is Infinity C-351. I just don't want to have to turn them up too high in channel level to get past all the big bass going on or vice versa

mijotter is offline  
post #96 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 12:32 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bond 007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 827
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

The widest I can go is 20" yes. The tallest I can go is 24" but that would require some modifications to my custom built cabinet. The reason for the width is because to the right is the tower speaker and to the left is 5'8" plywood from the cabinet. The entire cabinet is 2 inches from the screen wall.

What do you mean to breathe?
How about a picture? If that means the sub will 2" from the wall then you need something front ported. Something the LV12-r is not. You may be getting poor performance from your sub now just because of how you've placed it.
Unless you're wanting to go extreme the LV should be enough sub for that room. If you want to make a real significant upgrade its gonna cost ya.
Personally I would look at better speakers instead of a better sub.

No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!
Bond 007 is offline  
post #97 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
mijotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 58
The LV12R's port is about 6 inches from the wall(the cabinet is deeper). I have it narrowed down to the XS30, F15HP or the FV15HP.

mijotter is offline  
post #98 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 01:32 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Bond 007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 827
I'll buy your LV if you wanna sell it cheap.

No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!
Bond 007 is offline  
post #99 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 04:53 AM
Senior Member
 
Farley1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Georgia, United States
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

No I know that, I guess to compensate for older speakers. I have Infinity OWS-1's as my surrounds and my center is Infinity C-351. I just don't want to have to turn them up too high in channel level to get past all the big bass going on or vice versa

That is not something to worry about.


Samsung PN60F5300, Sony PS3

Denon AVR-X1000

SVS PB-2000

Front-Center-Surround, Pioneer: FS52-C22-FS51

Farley1 is offline  
post #100 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 05:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

The LV12R's port is about 6 inches from the wall(the cabinet is deeper). I have it narrowed down to the XS30, F15HP or the FV15HP.

Scratch the F15HP off this list. It's a substantial increase in price over the LV12R and isn't going to give you much more SPL if your main focus is movies. The XS30 will, but obviously the FV15HP is the best of your choices.

Receiver - Denon 1713
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
JT78681 is offline  
post #101 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 06:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1342
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

The LV12R's port is about 6 inches from the wall(the cabinet is deeper). I have it narrowed down to the XS30, F15HP or the FV15HP.

The FV15HP is 24" high. I thought you said 22" was max?
basshead81 is offline  
post #102 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 06:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1342
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

Scratch the F15HP off this list. It's a substantial increase in price over the LV12R and isn't going to give you much more SPL if your main focus is movies. The XS30 will, but obviously the FV15HP is the best of your choices.

I disagree...in his small sealed room the F15HP or XS30 will extend into the single digits and offer decent output down into the 12-14hz where the LV12 will never make it. Sure they may be fairly close right around the LV12's tune(19-20hz) but that is a narrow bandwidth. I am a fan of ported do not get me wrong, but again a 1200^3 sealed room is where sealed subs will shine. Aside from that a ported sub in that small of room could sound bloated (and need some eq to pull down a big peak) where room gain starts to kick in, especially if one is getting the full 12db per octave of gain.
basshead81 is offline  
post #103 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 06:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Yeah I know the F15HP will probably beat the LV12R way down low, but really is the performance that much better to justify the $600 plus he is going to have to fork out for the F15HP. Since he has the FV15HP on that list for not that much more than the F15HP he could pick it up and it would be all the subwoofer he would ever need in that size room. Keep in mind he is most likely going to have to sell his LV12R and he isn't going to get what he paid for it.

Receiver - Denon 1713
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
JT78681 is offline  
post #104 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 06:48 AM
Member
 
sevenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

What do you mean to breathe?

ie. it should not be in a space whereby the space around your sub is only a few CM. Or too near any cabinets esp..... do u have any photos of that space? a picture would speak a thousand words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

My brother has the Epik Empire which is sealed and my cousin has the DIY Dayton 18 HSO which is sealed as well. But in very different rooms than mine so i'm guessing it won't be a fair comparison. As far as sound difference what am I looking...er...listening for?

My friend, think you missed the point. We are not asking u to listen to compare room response. What u need to discern is the sound quality/signature difference between a sealed and a ported sound, and which one sounds better to you. wink.gif

Cos if this is not sorted out, seriously there is no need to go down the route of the other questions on 'sub getting 'louder', deeper, 'drown the speakers' that you are asking in the other posts. So, I strongly suggest u figure this out first before anything.

Also, can you share the methodology you hear and compare different subs? smile.gif
sevenz is offline  
post #105 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 06:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 123
mijotter could you alter your room in anyway to accomodate a larger sub? This will give you more options or even open the window to a second LV12R.

Receiver - Denon 1713
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
JT78681 is offline  
post #106 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 08:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Eyleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 1,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenz View Post

Pls bear in mind u may need to leave some space all around around the sub for it to 'breathe'.

What's the rationale behind this? 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenz View Post

ie. it should not be in a space whereby the space around your sub is only a few CM. Or too near any cabinets esp.....

There have been many studies performed on evaluating subwoofers for achieving greatest output, with the smoothest frequency response, for the most audience seats.

Included is wall placement, corner placement, etc. 

 

Are you saying that under X centimeters from a wall/corner it'll excite the wrong modes (as in modal response) or too many modes?

 

What's wrong near cabinets? Isn't the wavelength of the frequencies that low large enough to make 12 - 24" protrusions of wood and glass trivial?
80hz is a wavelength of 14 feet.

Or are you saying that they tend to rattle from bass?

Sdiver2489 likes this.
Eyleron is offline  
post #107 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 08:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 1342
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

Yeah I know the F15HP will probably beat the LV12R way down low, but really is the performance that much better to justify the $600 plus he is going to have to fork out for the F15HP. Since he has the FV15HP on that list for not that much more than the F15HP he could pick it up and it would be all the subwoofer he would ever need in that size room. Keep in mind he is most likely going to have to sell his LV12R and he isn't going to get what he paid for it.

True but the FV15HP does not even fit his size requirements so I am not sure why it is on his list.
basshead81 is offline  
post #108 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 08:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 123
I'm not either smile.gif He seems to be really struggling in deciding what he wants.

Receiver - Denon 1713
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
JT78681 is offline  
post #109 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 08:56 AM
Advanced Member
 
Sdiver2489's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

What's the rationale behind this? 

There have been many studies performed on evaluating subwoofers for achieving greatest output, with the smoothest frequency response, for the most audience seats.
Included is wall placement, corner placement, etc. 

Are you saying that under X centimeters from a wall/corner it'll excite the wrong modes (as in modal response) or too many modes?

What's wrong near cabinets? Isn't the wavelength of the frequencies that low large enough to make 12 - 24" protrusions of wood and glass trivial?

80hz is a wavelength of 14 feet.


Or are you saying that they tend to rattle from bass?

Agreed. Only thing that would lend some credence to his argument is that you have to give the port some room to pull air from the room. Other than that...put it as close to the wall as you want. I found shifting my sub back a foot closer to the corner helped lift some small nulls a bit.
Sdiver2489 is offline  
post #110 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
mijotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Well I had the FV15HP because that is my dream sub so to speak and I would have to do some adjustments to my cabinet to have a chance of fitting it in there but I think I could. The other ones will fit without modifications. So I guess, would it be worth the mods and readjustments for the FV15HP over the XS30 in a room my size or would sealed be better for me?

I was kind of wondering about the regular F15HP only being a slight upgrade. For this price range, I would want a noticeable improvement.

The longest dimension of my room is roughly 17'. So according to the 565/17 formula, I should start to get good room gain around 30hz which I think is right where I'd want to be for a sealed sub yes?

Also, when referring to chest slam bass what frequency range is that generally?

mijotter is offline  
post #111 of 152 Old 04-28-2014, 03:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked: 661

If it is in the budget, the FV15HP should be strongly considered for a movie/music dual purpose sub.  It has perhaps the highest overall output for the price, and would be the only other sub I would have considered, just more than I was willing to spend.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

bear123 is offline  
post #112 of 152 Old 04-29-2014, 05:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 123
mijotter just pick up one of these bad boys and call it a day

http://velodyne.com/subwoofers/impact-mini-6-5.html

Receiver - Denon 1713
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
JT78681 is offline  
post #113 of 152 Old 04-29-2014, 05:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Eyleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 1,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Chest slam is mid-upper bass, 50-80 60-100Hz, I believe.

You also need enough dB, probably 100dB+.
Eyleron is offline  
post #114 of 152 Old 04-29-2014, 07:00 AM
Member
 
sevenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyleron View Post

What's the rationale behind this? 

There have been many studies performed on evaluating subwoofers for achieving greatest output, with the smoothest frequency response, for the most audience seats.
Included is wall placement, corner placement, etc. 

Are you saying that under X centimeters from a wall/corner it'll excite the wrong modes (as in modal response) or too many modes?

What's wrong near cabinets? Isn't the wavelength of the frequencies that low large enough to make 12 - 24" protrusions of wood and glass trivial?

80hz is a wavelength of 14 feet.


Or are you saying that they tend to rattle from bass?

Don't get me wrong, near wall or corner load is ok.

But for cabinet, really depnds cos there may be some carpentry build and design (and plus the way the sub is placed) not doing the sub justice, esp those that has a base etc. OP mentioned that there is a cabinet next to sub that may need to be modified, so this may be something to take note of. Hence, I was saying a picture will help. smile.gif
sevenz is offline  
post #115 of 152 Old 04-29-2014, 07:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 123
I think he has some sort of entertainment center built around the sub.

Receiver - Denon 1713
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
JT78681 is offline  
post #116 of 152 Old 04-29-2014, 07:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,066
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 123

Receiver - Denon 1713
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
JT78681 is offline  
post #117 of 152 Old 04-29-2014, 07:53 AM
Member
 
sevenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 87
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post


Nice! smile.gif hehe....
sevenz is offline  
post #118 of 152 Old 04-29-2014, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
mijotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Yeah it's a crappy picture but there's no back to the cabinet and the wood used was just 5/8" particleboard.

mijotter is offline  
post #119 of 152 Old 04-29-2014, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
mijotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toledo, OH
Posts: 1,178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 58
so i ran some sine waves. at my crossover, which is 80hz, and up to 100hz nothing gets rerouted to any of the speakers except the center channel. and it seems like sound is coming out of the center channel even at 60hz.

mijotter is offline  
post #120 of 152 Old 04-29-2014, 12:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
Sdiver2489's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

so i ran some sine waves. at my crossover, which is 80hz, and up to 100hz nothing gets rerouted to any of the speakers except the center channel. and it seems like sound is coming out of the center channel even at 60hz.

You must be applying PLII if you are getting sound out your center channel from test tones.Output stereo.
Sdiver2489 is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off