PLS help with sub selection version room correction - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 04-23-2014, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been trying to pick a sub for just about a year now. I have been down just about every road possible.. SVS, Rhythmik, PSA, Paradigm, Velodyne, GE.. Now I am pretty convinced that I want/need room correction. SO here is where I am.

Budget 2k(would like to keep it around 1500 for one sub as I will probably buy a matching sub down the road)

Large room, somewhere around 4000 cubic feet.

Short list but open to other ideas... remember room correction is required here.

Velodyne Optimum 12 (hopefully adding a second down the road)
Paradigm Monitor 12 x 2 - (concerned about output here)
Martin Logan Dynamo 1500 - (would add a second down the road)


I know there are a lot of subs out there that will smash these in terms of output but the room correction is important to me especially when I will more than likely be running dual subs.
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post #2 of 35 Old 04-23-2014, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lees23 View Post

I know there are a lot of subs out there that will smash these in terms of output but the room correction is important to me especially when I will more than likely be running dual subs.
Separate the two concerns. Buy your subs based on your output needs and space availability, and do the room correction with a stand alone unit. Google REW. The software is free, and the hardware you'll need to use it is very inexpensive.
Your listed choices are IMO extremely overpriced. What they offer in terms of response and output you can get for $500, and the sum total cost of REW including hardware will run less than $300. You also should be looking at ported subs for that size room.

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post #3 of 35 Old 04-23-2014, 07:48 PM
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For 1500.00 I would be looking at a Rythmik FV15HP. At 2k I would be looking at a JTR Captivator 2400 passive powered with a Inuke 3000dsp.
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post #4 of 35 Old 04-23-2014, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't want a coffee table sized sub(ported). I never really thought about attempting the room correction myself. Guess that would make it fun. I will google REW and see if I think it's something I am capable of.
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post #5 of 35 Old 04-23-2014, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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That REW stuff is SOOO far beyond me..
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post #6 of 35 Old 04-24-2014, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Budget 2k(would like to keep it around 1500 for one sub as I will probably buy a matching sub down the road)

Large room, somewhere around 4000 cubic feet.

Short list but open to other ideas... remember room correction is required here.
Quote:
I don't want a coffee table sized sub(ported).
1. SVS SB13-Ultra* ($1,599, shipped, including free return shipping within 45 days)

2. a) REW (free) + UMIK-1 ($75 + shipping)
-or-
b) Dayton OmniMic ($298, shipped)

____________________________
(*One now, one "down the road".)
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post #7 of 35 Old 04-24-2014, 05:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post


1. SVS SB13-Ultra* ($1,599, shipped, including free return shipping within 45 days)

2. a) REW (free) + UMIK-1 ($75 + shipping)
-or-
b) Dayton OmniMic ($298, shipped)

____________________________
(*One now, one "down the road".)

Have seriously considered the SB 13U. Not sure I am capable of figuring REW out. Does it walk you through everything?
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post #8 of 35 Old 04-24-2014, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by lees23 View Post

I don't want a coffee table sized sub(ported).
Google 'Hoffman's Iron Law'. It is inviolable. Small subs = small sound.

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post #9 of 35 Old 04-24-2014, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Google 'Hoffman's Iron Law'. It is inviolable. Small subs = small sound.

I guess I will have "small" sound then. I refuse to fill my room with gigantic subwoofer boxes. This is a room with a sound system not a sound system with a room around it. I understand that some peoples main priority is reference level sound but it's not mine. I want a "good" sound system that doesn't take up the entire room.
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post #10 of 35 Old 04-24-2014, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Not sure I am capable of figuring REW out. Does it walk you through everything?
Although both products have learning curves, I'm not familiar with REW - I have an OmniMic (v1 - the one I linked to is the newer v2) - but both products have learning curves.

As far as the OmniMic is concerned, it's an excellent "all in one, plug and play" package. Load the software, plug in the mic and run the supplied test tones. You get to see your room's response in real time and, using whatever method of equalization is available to you*, you can tweak the curve for a flat response.

_________________________
*In the case of the SB13-Ultra, its adjustable DSP settings. If the subs you buy don't have much in the way of EQ adjustability, you can always add to your system a miniDSP ($105 + shipping) + the 2way Advanced plug-in for calibrating dual subs ($10).
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post #11 of 35 Old 04-24-2014, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is where I am now.. One PSA XS30 and a PSA XS15 for room smoothing. I am not sure if I will buy both now or just buy the XS30 now. Thoughts?
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post #12 of 35 Old 04-24-2014, 11:03 AM
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The xs30 isn't that big. Xs15's will be smaller,you could get 2 and be done pretty cheap. A lot these guys on the forums don't understand that some guys just want a decent recommendation without making a big deal out of this stuff. You can probably put that sub or 2 of them in your room and fire them up and you will be happy. Some people just aren't that picky.
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post #13 of 35 Old 04-24-2014, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lees23 View Post

Here is where I am now.. One PSA XS30 and a PSA XS15 for room smoothing. I am not sure if I will buy both now or just buy the XS30 now. Thoughts?

Unless they're used, I think that costs a lot more than $1500. For $1500, I would get 3 outlaw lfm-1 plus's. On sale now for $499 w/free shipping. Spread them out sort of evenly throughout the room and let your receiver auto eq them. They are kind of big, but don't take up any more footprint than the 2 subs you mentioned and they have a nice shiny plexiglass top.
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post #14 of 35 Old 04-24-2014, 11:05 AM
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A plexi glass top?
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post #15 of 35 Old 04-24-2014, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

A plexi glass top?
Sold on the plexiglass top!
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post #16 of 35 Old 04-24-2014, 12:05 PM
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A plexi glass top?

http://d2heru13qkbk4q.cloudfront.net/media/949267/scaled/image.jpg
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post #17 of 35 Old 04-24-2014, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Fancy
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post #18 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 12:39 AM
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Two subs no matter how small can take up a lot of room once you have optimum placement.

My recommendation would be to look hard at Funk Audio. They are in Canada but ship anywhere. Your room is big and they make gorgeous 18" subs that are sealed, compact and have amazing output. One of the finest subs made. If you give Nathan a call, you might find he has what you need for a better than expected price. That's all I can say there.

They make a sub called the 18.0SE - It's a more affordable, but equally well performing version of the 18.0 - basically, it's made less pretty, but performance is identical. I know your budget, so sorry for mentioning it, but that 18.0SE performs in Paradigm sub2 territory. See databass.com. it is a few db's down of the sub2 below 20hz, but at maybe 50hz - 80hz equally then surpasses the sub2 in db's.

They are no joke, all drivers and amps are made in house, and has produced what some consider one of the finest drivers, equal in performance to an LMF 5400 (sorry can't remember the exact name for it) yet it's far lighter.

IMHO if you want to save space, get one really really great sub and be done. They offer staggering performance. Another option would be the 18.0c, less expensive, sexy as hell, and a fabulous performer, half the output of the 18.0 or 18.0SE, but priced right for a two sub setup. Please, understand, half the staggering performance of an 18.0SE is still crushing performance, but a great option two step up your output without killing the bank. Also, they are extremely advanced DSP subs....so tune your heart out. It's been said Nathan can possibly do it over the net for you. You'll have to verify that.

Sorry for the long post. I know I'm pushing budget a bit, but I'd put all the money you have (2k vs 1.5k) into the right "forever" sub(s) and worry about the EQ equipment later. A focus on performance and quality now, buys you plenty of time to EQ it later. Also a more devastating tight punchy musical sub like the 18 SE that has excellent 10hz output up to a distortion free and clean/usable 250hz means you can blend it with flipping bookshelf speakers if you were so inclined.

Bah, sorry for the over pitch, but Funk Audio is something special and worth a look. I hope something I said helped. Best of luck on your search.
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post #19 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Majister,
Thanks for your recommendation of Funk audio. I sent them website inquiry(must say the website does not get a long with mobile platforms well). It's impressive stuff for sure and am interested to see what he can do for me. I think the only sub that I would really be interested in is the 18.0C. It's the only sub under the 2k mark. The 18.1 is just too big, it's cabinet is significantly larger than PSA's XS30, a dual 15" driver sub.
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post #20 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lees23 View Post

I guess I will have "small" sound then. I refuse to fill my room with gigantic subwoofer boxes. This is a room with a sound system not a sound system with a room around it. I understand that some peoples main priority is reference level sound but it's not mine. I want a "good" sound system that doesn't take up the entire room.

What one man calls large another would call tiny, it is all relative. What is the max size sub for you then?

Edit - REW does have a slight learning curve, but if you can read, you can figure it out, because there are a ton of guides for it on the net.
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post #21 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by McStyvie View Post

What one man calls large another would call tiny, it is all relative. What is the max size sub for you then?

Edit - REW does have a slight learning curve, but if you can read, you can figure it out, because there are a ton of guides for it on the net.

I am close to ordering a PSA XS30 But am struggling with the size. Would probably order a veneer finish(extra $300) so it looks more like furniture than a sub. What I like about the PSA is that you can order a XS15 and hide it somewhere to help smooth the room.
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post #22 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 05:25 AM
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hmm, the XS15 is only a few inches smaller, and honestly, you will need the output of at least the XS30 for your room. Is placement fixed? Or can you place it where it sounds best?
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post #23 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 05:29 AM - Thread Starter
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The XS15 is a few inches smaller in every dimension except for maybe width. That translates into quite a bit smaller. I would do an XS30 AND an XS15

4" less deep, 4" shorter and an 1" narrower. That's fairly significant.
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post #24 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 05:49 AM
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two will do you better in terms of evening out response, all things considered. Go for it.
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post #25 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 10:32 AM
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I'd always do two smaller subs rather than one monster, but that's my take on things. You'll get smoother bass that way if you spend some time on positioning.

For a good 'hands off' room EQ look at the DSPSpeaker stuff. REW does a good job but it's only a measurement tool, you still need a EQ box.

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post #26 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 11:01 AM
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Nowhere in this thread has anyone asked you what receiver you are running. Does it have room correction (Audyssey, YPAO, etc.)?

If you don't have an AVR with built in room correction, that is where you need to start - OR - you need to learn REW and get some sort of outboard EQ (MiniDSP, Behringer FBD, etc.).

AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
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post #27 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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32XT.. No Sub EQ HT though.

Was sold on the PSA XS30 and possibly adding the XS15 for smoothing now interested in the Funk Audio stuff. Guess I have to make a decision of less distortion and more output vs smoother response.
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post #28 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 11:46 AM
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Well, if you've got XT32 why would you even start looking at subs with room correction built in? You've pretty much got the best right there in your AVR.

Anyway, I see you've gotten past that now....good luck with your quest!

AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
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post #29 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 12:40 PM
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For your room size, I would get a passive Captivator 2400 and a Behringer iNuke 6000dsp amp now then add another passive Captivator later running off the same amp. The amp has built in dsp also. I have listened to this pair in a room about your size, may be a bit larger and they are quite impressive.
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post #30 of 35 Old 04-25-2014, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

For your room size, I would get a passive Captivator 2400 and a Behringer iNuke 6000dsp amp now then add another passive Captivator later running off the same amp. The amp has built in dsp also. I have listened to this pair in a room about your size, may be a bit larger and they are quite impressive.

^^^^^Did not read size or budget constraints.
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