Subwoofer Recommendation <$1500 - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 141 Old 05-02-2014, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Timokreon View Post

Ahhh.. the wonderful "ignore buton" does wonders for all. Really, more people should try it out, then "those" people will fade away to nothing. smile.gif

I hear you my man..smile.gif

Its hard to get too worked up about these types of threads though. The drama created sends so much traffic to our site it is really eye opening how direct the correlation is. I try to stay out of it until my personal integrity is attacked. But at the end of the day what can I do.....just consider the source.

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post #122 of 141 Old 05-02-2014, 07:49 PM
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We admire the confidence in the upgraded drivers.

Politics is like religion. You never know who you serve.
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post #123 of 141 Old 05-02-2014, 08:37 PM
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We admire the confidence in the upgraded drivers.

Confidence is easy when you've done your homework. One thing I've learned from these boards is Tom has the data to back hus claims.
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post #124 of 141 Old 05-02-2014, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

The chart is Spot-on.


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If this indeed ends up being for real then I see myself heading I'm the direction of a pair of them. Currently I get more port noise than I think I should. Apparently I run my sub pretty hot and calibrated only by ear. I want to go sealed but want the same or more output below 20hz than I have now but in a sealed system.

I'll then be on a long term diet of crow.

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post #125 of 141 Old 05-02-2014, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post


Our charts are spot-on. I'm sorry you don't have the ability to understand what they represent. Instead of reducing yourself to this type of grade school mud slinging perhaps you should educate yourself on the subject matter. Start by emailing Josh Ricci. If he has the patience for your "anything PSA is evil" mentality he will explain why our method of data collection and representation is the most accurate method. Of course he has tried that in the past with no progress. Even Mark Seaton, a direct competitor of ours has tried to educate you in these matters. You seem to have no desire to compare products fairly, only to bash anything Power Sound Audio related?

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Hey Tom, given the new upgrades that have been done to the X lineup. Im considering a Xs30se for my 1200^3 ft room. Im sure that it will have more than enough output and give me great low end response but my question is does the two drivers opposing each other and sharing the same chamber effect the tight, crisp sound that you would expect from a sealed sub? Cant say ive ever heard a sub with this design.
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post #126 of 141 Old 05-03-2014, 12:58 AM
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shipwreck, It's good that you already discerned that you prefer the sealed bass sound better, so ur choices are kind of locked in already. smile.gif Can you share what's your listening preferences for music and movies?

And i suggest that you avoid the route of concentrating on output numbers. Cos sometimes, if the discussion is taken in the wrong context/light, it takes away the enjoyment of our HT hobby. Just like speakers, subs may have different sound signature and measurements may vary a bit depending on the environment and method. But the fact is - the subs recommended are very good subs in their own way, all have their own strengths.

i've used Rythmik F15HP (current), ULS15, MBM12, KK, and auditioned SVS + Velodyne, and have friends who are using PSA. Seriously, i think you will not go wrong either subs that you have listed. wink.gif Enjoy your sub.

Go for the one that sound best to you. Because what sounds good to someone else, may not sound good to you. Nothing beats hearing it yourself and discerning which is the bass that sound and feel best to you. That is the most important.
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post #127 of 141 Old 05-03-2014, 01:20 AM
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Great thread! Worthy of a bag of popcorn while reading lol.
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post #128 of 141 Old 05-03-2014, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Shipwreck212 View Post

Hey Tom, given the new upgrades that have been done to the X lineup. Im considering a Xs30se for my 1200^3 ft room. Im sure that it will have more than enough output and give me great low end response but my question is does the two drivers opposing each other and sharing the same chamber effect the tight, crisp sound that you would expect from a sealed sub? Cant say ive ever heard a sub with this design.

For sealed designs I think dual opposed is a great setup. Basically you are increasing the sensitivity of the sub by 3db and the drivers have to work 50% as hard(compared to a single) to achieve the same output. They also narrow the gap between the extra output of a single ported subs tune. For example go to the website and look at the 20-31hz for the XS15se(114.7db), then XV15se(121.1db) and the XS30se(118.4db)
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post #129 of 141 Old 05-03-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by club968 View Post

Fun how every "I'm looking for a subwoofer under x dollars" thread turns into a PSA debate thread despite even the OP stating numerous tines he's not interested at all...doesn't matter. PSA willgey pushed into the conversation by the same guys and will try to get shot down by the same giys

I think you missed the post where the OP stepped in stating he was interested in the XS30se.
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post #130 of 141 Old 05-03-2014, 10:59 AM
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The XS30se, in my opinion, is like a poor man's Seaton Submersive.  Little smaller enclosure, little less amp, similar drivers, less than half the price.  Its a helluva lot of sub for the money.  Not knocking the SS in any way, its a world class sub and worth the money.  Just that the XS30 offers a boatload of bang for the buck.

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LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

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post #131 of 141 Old 05-03-2014, 11:28 AM
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^^ I concur. Not only do I own an XS30, I also own the poor man's Corvette (the Camaro … actually two Camaros). Which makes me chuckle because I'm far from being poor. It's just the way I'm built. I value … well … value smile.gif. Now would I love to have a SubMersive? You bet. And if the XS30 didn't work for me, that is probably what I would have looked at next. How about the Corvette? Naw, I'm getting too old to get out of those low riders biggrin.gif.
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post #132 of 141 Old 05-03-2014, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

The new PSA numbers look too good to believe but time will tell if they are. That said dr Russell compared the SB 13 with the xs 30 and from what I recall of his results was that the SB 13 was not that far behind the xs30 in overall output. So I really doubt a single xs15 has 1.6 times the output of the sb13. Maybe the chart is supposed to read .6. wink.gif

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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I believe Russell stated that he preferred the SB13 for his type of music that he likes and the XS30 for movies. I do not recall him stating which had more output.

Wow, things have really been busy here lately since the PSA announcement. Hard to keep up. That being said, I'd like to clarify what I stated in my comparative review of the XS30 vs the Ultra here at AVS.

I'm probably the last person anyone should ask as far as output is concerned. I do not listen at or near reference levels. I'm also an old-school stereo guy (I don't own 5.1 anything for various reasons, but not that I don't enjoy it -- I have fun when going to my son's house). The last time I measured, I found that almost all of the time I would hit peak levels as high as the mid 80s dB and occasionally the high 80s to low 90s dB (which I think is extremely loud). The loudest I've ever listened was when the peaks hit around 100 dB (hey, I was curious). Both the Ultra and XS30 can hit these levels without breathing hard and with no signs of distress. As soon as I get my dB meter back (my son borrowed it for his system), I'l do another check. It's time, because as these subs have broken in over the months (I ordered the Ultra a year ago and the XS30 ten months ago) I have had to lower the subwoofer gain a bit on each subwoofer twice so far.

While both the XS30 and SB13-Ultra are sealed designs, they are indeed different. I enjoy both subwoofers for what they can do for me. The Ultra is wonderfully detailed for every piece of music I have played. My tastes run from classical, especially those with low organ notes, to Pink Floyd, Alan Parsons, Dire Straits, Steven Wilson, Mike Oldfield, and on and on (you get the idea). Several tracks on various CDs and SACDs can really slam and crush the walls. Shockingly so (just ask my son and girlfriend when they came over -- both jumped when I played the Oldfield track, "Shabda"). BTW, "Shabda" is one of those really sneaky pieces of music (sort of like the doors slamming in the movie, "The Conjuring"), in that the bass comes out of nowhere and hits you hard.

The XS30, on the other hand, I use for movies. Yes, I've compared the two for music, but prefer the Ultra over the XS30. Matter-of-fact, I think the Hsu ULS-15 (which I auditioned at the same time I auditioned the Ultra) and PSA XS30 are far more similar to each other than to the Ultra. But it is movies that the XS30 shines. It is simply more immersive and slams the walls and vibrates the seat and myself more vigorously than the Ultra or Hsu.
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post #133 of 141 Old 05-03-2014, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

For sealed designs I think dual opposed is a great setup. Basically you are increasing the sensitivity of the sub by 3db and the drivers have to work 50% as hard(compared to a single) to achieve the same output. They also narrow the gap between the extra output of a single ported subs tune. For example go to the website and look at the 20-31hz for the XS15se(114.7db), then XV15se(121.1db) and the XS30se(118.4db)

There are real drawbacks to dual opposed designs, depending on the drivers, the amp, and how they are wired. If you wire the drivers in a series, you half their efficiency and power output, but if you parallel wire them, that halves their impedance and creates a much heavier current load for the amp. The way out is to use a super amp, like the Speaker Power amps that Seaton uses, but those are expensive, of course. There are no free lunches in sub designs.
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post #134 of 141 Old 05-03-2014, 09:44 PM
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biggrin.gif I try but i keep bumping into you which sends me scurrying back underground. This forum doesn't need another "soldier" though. I prefer to observe and absorb. I think you and Shady are the same person. I seen this movie somewhere eek.gifbiggrin.gif.
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Lol. No Shady and I are far from the same...

Agreed. Definitely not the same. Basshead owns a better brand of subwoofer wink.gifsmile.gif

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post #135 of 141 Old 05-05-2014, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright, so after a great weekend of research and conversations with people who know what they're talking about... I think I've actually decided to go PSA. The question now is do I go with a PSA XS15se, and grab a second one down the road to save some money now? Or do I go ahead and spend 400 more bucks on the XS30se? I believe that I will be perfectly happy with either of them. The issue is do I want dual subs, or a single dual? It's like asking if you want 2 single core processors, or 1 dual core. (Sorry, I'm a Computer Info. Sys. Major and it's finals week!) Thoughts? Opinions? Please don't take the time to post something bashing my opinion to go with PSA. I've already decided. I would just like input as to why I should choose one over another. Thanks!

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post #136 of 141 Old 05-05-2014, 10:19 AM
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Dual XS15se's would be my choice.
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post #137 of 141 Old 05-05-2014, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Dual XS15se's would be my choice.

Why?

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post #138 of 141 Old 05-05-2014, 10:21 AM
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Because a single sub can not smooth room modes. Dual subs will help smooth the reaponse and will need less eq to get a flat frequency response.
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post #139 of 141 Old 05-05-2014, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Because a single sub can not smooth room modes. Dual subs will help smooth the reaponse and will need less eq to get a flat frequency response.

Agreed in most cases… if your placement options are too restrictive, a higher output sub with PEQ may be a better use of $ (assuming you have no deep nulls). If you only have one or two placement options for either or both subs (and your room is fairly rectangular), a quick check with REW room simulator should give a pretty good idea if the second sub will help smooth out the peaks/dips prior to ordering a pair.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #140 of 141 Old 05-05-2014, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipwreck212 View Post
 

Alright, so after a great weekend of research and conversations with people who know what they're talking about... I think I've actually decided to go PSA. The question now is do I go with a PSA XS15se, and grab a second one down the road to save some money now? Or do I go ahead and spend 400 more bucks on the XS30se? I believe that I will be perfectly happy with either of them. The issue is do I want dual subs, or a single dual? It's like asking if you want 2 single core processors, or 1 dual core. (Sorry, I'm a Computer Info. Sys. Major and it's finals week!) Thoughts? Opinions? Please don't take the time to post something bashing my opinion to go with PSA. I've already decided. I would just like input as to why I should choose one over another. Thanks!

First off, good choice.  XS15's will work well in your small room.  The newly updated version gained A LOT of output at 20 Hz.  Second, go duals, and here is why.  You almost assuredly will not have a smooth response in room with one sub.  In the example I am about to give, keep in mind that a 6dB difference in SPL is perceived as twice as loud.  Although your in room response is likely to be different, here is a typical single sub in room response:

 

 

As you can see, there is a 10-15 dB variation in loudness at some frequencies.  The ONLY way to fix this is with an additional sub:

As you can see, a second sub filled the null.  A null can not be eq'd up.  Although there is now a peak, this can be pulled down with eq:

 

No way to get that flat of a response with one sub.  That is why you go duals.

 

P.S.  The flat response down to 10Hz was due to closing two sets of french doors that are normally open, not eq.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #141 of 141 Old 05-05-2014, 04:13 PM
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A little off topic, but I have a Sunfire True 12" EQ12 Signature that I bought in 2007. The sub recently is leaking air and Sunfire, offfered to repair for $375, they will not ship parts or they offered me TWO Sunfire HRS-12s for $1220 and I can keep the other sub. For the $1500 questions is that worth it? Or is SVS sb2000s a better deal? The room is a deadicated theater that is 13 x 22 x 8.
THANKS!
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