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-   -   Subwoofer Recommendation <$1500 (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1529728-subwoofer-recommendation-1500-a.html)

Shipwreck212 04-30-2014 10:43 AM

Hello,

 

I am looking to purchase a new subwoofer(s) for my home theater. My current setup is:

 

2 x Andrew Jones    SP-FS52

1 x Andrew Jones    SP-C22

4 x Andrew Jones    SP-BS22LR

Oppo BDP-103

Marantz SR-7001

Xbox 360

Roku 3

Panasonic P65VT50

 

 

I used used to have a Klipsch RW-12D for about a year, but I wasn't really happy with the way that it sounded in my 1200 ft^3 room. It was a little too "Boomy" for my taste. I've done a lot in car audio and I always preferred sealed vs ported. It seems that my car audio tastes have transferred over and into my home theater tastes. I sold my RW-12D and am borrowing a velodyne F1000 from a friend. I really love the sound that I'm getting from that, but I'm looking for something bigger and better. I've been researching subs for over a week and can not seem to settle on one. I need a Remote (Or way to control subwoofer volume level without having to get up and adjust it. It's a dedicated theater, but I live with my parents at the moment. Moving out soon) So the sub(s) either have to be passive, or active with a remote. I don't want a ported sub or a sub with a passive radiator. I know that sealed subs may not be the best for home theater usage, but I prefer their sound over the other 2. 

 

 

 

Here's what I'm currently looking at:

 

 2 x Velodyne SC-15's   Ebay has a deal on these with sc-1250 amp for $1500

 

HSU-ULS15

 

SVS SB-13 

 

Power Sound Audio XS30

 

Rythmik Audio F25

 

Velodyne HGS-15/18

 

 

I just can't seem to decide. They all get great reviews and seem like they will work. I'm definitely open to other suggestions though!! Please HELP! I would say that so far my favorites are the SC-15's and HSU but I'm not sold on the HSU yet. From what I've read it does the low end better than anything, but the high end just isn't nearly as good. And of course the fact that you get 2 sc-15's plus a $1000 amp for 1500 is ridiculous! So that's a top contender as well. Just need some expert advice!

 

Thanks in advance!


eljaycanuck 04-30-2014 10:50 AM

Your room is quite small, so a sealed sub (or two) should work very well in it. Of the subs you listed, my personal preference would be the SVS SB13-Ultra.

basshead81 04-30-2014 10:51 AM

You do not need a remote for the sub...simply use the sub trim in your AVR. smile.gif

You have some really good choices posted...imo the F25 is probably the top dog on your list. If you like the idea of duals, chane theatre has a dual 18" sealed with a dayton spa1000 amp for around 1500.00 + shipping.

http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/Power-Package-Two

bear123 04-30-2014 10:54 AM

F25 is likely the strongest performer in that group.


Jahjd2000 04-30-2014 10:58 AM

Since the F25 is out of stock, I'd recommend the F15HP and E15HP.

Shipwreck212 04-30-2014 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

You do not need a remote for the sub...simply use the sub trim in your AVR. smile.gif

You have some really good choices posted...imo the F25 is probably the top dog on your list. If you like the idea of duals, chane theatre has a dual 18" sealed with a dayton spa1000 amp for around 1500.00 + shipping.

http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/Power-Package-Two

I would use the Trim, if my receiver had come with a remote :(. It was used off of Ebay. Flawless condition... Just no remote.


basshead81 04-30-2014 12:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipwreck212 View Post

I would use the Trim, if my receiver had come with a remote frown.gif . It was used off of Ebay. Flawless condition... Just no remote.

Plenty of remote options out there...harmony is one that comes to mind. smile.gif

Shipwreck212 04-30-2014 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post


Plenty of remote options out there...harmony is one that comes to mind. smile.gif

I've got a buddy who has RTI software. I'm going to be buying the RTI T1B after I grab my subs. Didn't know if I would need to program an amp or sub into the remote so I'm holding off on that until the very end. 4 Remotes suck.


LowTech1 04-30-2014 12:16 PM

Too bad it isn't a network receiver,you could have used your phone.

Shipwreck212 04-30-2014 12:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

Too bad it isn't a network receiver,you could have used your phone.

I wish it was! But In all honesty I really didn't need a networking option. I just needed an HDMI input because all sources are plugged into TV, and my TV doesn't passthrough  5.1 audio via spdif to receiver. Found that out pretty quickly when trying to stream my PLEX.


Shipwreck212 04-30-2014 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

You do not need a remote for the sub...simply use the sub trim in your AVR. smile.gif

You have some really good choices posted...imo the F25 is probably the top dog on your list. If you like the idea of duals, chane theatre has a dual 18" sealed with a dayton spa1000 amp for around 1500.00 + shipping.

http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/Power-Package-Two

Have you ever heard the 18" 's from chane? I can't seem to really find a good review with some graphs on them. I don't like buying blind and hoping. Especially on something that expensive. I know dayton audio is good. I've used their woofers in my car before and they were marvelous! 


Ozzie Isaac 04-30-2014 12:35 PM

I wouldlook at dual E15s from Rythmik.

Shipwreck212 04-30-2014 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie Isaac View Post

I wouldlook at dual E15s from Rythmik.

Bit Expensive don't you think? I would think that if I head into that price territory there would be better options available? Regardless, slightly out of my price range. 


Ozzie Isaac 04-30-2014 12:47 PM

Yes it is slightly above your stated range. However, it would be hard to do better for less.

I do not recommend duals for SPL, in that case you could do better for less. I recommend duals to help smooth room modes and improve overall SQ.

dsrussell 04-30-2014 12:51 PM

Except for the Velodyne, you have a solid list to choose from. What is it about remote controls that has so many so fascinated? Anyway, from your list, I rank them in the following order (with none outperforming the other by very much if any):

Rythmik F25 (don't own, never auditioned)
PSA XS30 (own)
SVS SB13-Ultra (own)
Hsu ULS-15 (auditioned, not purchased)
Velodyne (don't own, never auditioned)

This is assuming your use will be mostly movies and you already have a good location for your subwoofer that covers the listening position. For mostly music that order would change. As others have indicated, Rythmik has several outstanding subs to choose from.

Why not Velodyne? Not that they may not be good subs, it's just the cost / performance ratio isn't very high. Plus, they have only a 2-year warranty -- far less than any that are listed.

Shipwreck212 04-30-2014 01:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

Except for the Velodyne, you have a solid list to choose from. What is it about remote controls that has so many so fascinated? Anyway, from your list, I rank them in the following order (with none outperforming the other by very much if any):

Rythmik F25 (don't own, never auditioned)
PSA XS30 (own)
SVS SB13-Ultra (own)
Hsu ULS-15 (auditioned, not purchased)
Velodyne (don't own, never auditioned)

This is assuming your use will be mostly movies and you already have a good location for your subwoofer that covers the listening position. For mostly music that order would change. As others have indicated, Rythmik has several outstanding subs to choose from.

Why not Velodyne? Not that they may not be good subs, it's just the cost / performance ratio isn't very high. Plus, they have only a 2-year warranty -- far less than any that are listed.

Is there any particular reason why you placed the rythmik above all of the subs you've heard? Do you really have that much faith in the company? I'm new-ish to home theater building and planning and designing just trying to understand the big "Players" so to speak. Also what were your thoughts on the ULS-15? Did it have a good high end response? From what I've read it will go lower than low but doesn't play the higher end well. Curious if this is true? 


Kini62 04-30-2014 01:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipwreck212 View Post

Have you ever heard the 18" 's from chane? I can't seem to really find a good review with some graphs on them. I don't like buying blind and hoping. Especially on something that expensive. I know dayton audio is good. I've used their woofers in my car before and they were marvelous! 

There is a Chase thread here. Just no action since Chase closed down and merged with Jon Lane of the audioinsider and started their new joint venture- chanemusic.

A pair of those with the 1000 watt amp would be incredible. Contact them and see if they can tell you what your in room response would be. You certainly wouldn't be hurting for output above 20hz.

Very few remote control subs.

RSL (rogers sound lab) makes a nice 10" (ported though) for $750. Seems to be quite powerful for its size and great sounding (at least according to its owners), it just doesn't dig very deep. About 25 hz or so. Might be better in a small room though. A pair would do quite well in your room.

cel4145 04-30-2014 02:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipwreck212 View Post

Have you ever heard the 18" 's from chane? I can't seem to really find a good review with some graphs on them. I don't like buying blind and hoping. Especially on something that expensive. I know dayton audio is good. I've used their woofers in my car before and they were marvelous! 

If they perform the same as the Chase version of those subs, they either need (a) a lot of room gain and/or (b) a lot of EQ. Good product for the money, but you need to be prepared for that.

Meanwhile, I have asked them for frequency response information on their new subs because their website information seems misleading. And this is what happened: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1512510/official-chane-music-cinema-subwoofer-thread#post_24418299 (read from here). I personally wouldn't buy from them since they seem unwilling to provide a straight answer about the anechoic response of those subs. That, and there was a lot of drama surrounding Chase Home Theater. I think you can do better when it comes to dealing with Internet direct subwoofer vendor.

dsrussell 04-30-2014 02:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipwreck212 View Post

Is there any particular reason why you placed the rythmik above all of the subs you've heard? Do you really have that much faith in the company? I'm new-ish to home theater building and planning and designing just trying to understand the big "Players" so to speak. Also what were your thoughts on the ULS-15? Did it have a good high end response? From what I've read it will go lower than low but doesn't play the higher end well. Curious if this is true? 

I'm not all that loyal to subwoofer brands. The subs I do own are terrific for their roles, and I could not be happier (but "could" be just as happy with other brands). The reason I feel Rythmik may be slightly better (and I mean very slightly), is their servo-controlled amplifier and the number of reviews from people I respect, including Jim Wilson's comparative review of the SVS and Rythmik. Rythmik also turned a lot of heads at a subwoofer shootout, so that told me something as well. Plus, I am much more critical of music reproduction than I am about movie LFE reproduction.

As far as the Hsu ULS-15, I really liked this sub, especially for its size. I just preferred the XS30 for movies and the Ultra for music. I didn't notice that much difference in the higher bass frequencies, or at least not anything I could point to. The XS30 simply had more muscle and the Ultra was simply more detailed.

Finally, you cannot go wrong with any of these subs. They are all excellent in their own ways.

Here is Jim's comparative review: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471574/rythmik-e15-vs-svs-sb13-ultra/90 (post 102).

LowTech1 04-30-2014 02:52 PM

Another thing too,if you choose one,how would you know what your missing from the others if you don't have a side by side comparison. Any of these subs will do the job.

dsrussell 04-30-2014 03:02 PM

^^ Side-by-side comparisons are pretty expensive to do. For instance, I was fortunate that Hsu Research is only 12 miles from me, so I could audition it without paying the shipping fee (I picked it up). I compared it head-to-head with the SB13-Ultra. I wanted to audition the Rythmik, even knowing I'd have to pay the return shipping if I didn't keep it, but there was a 6 month back order (pretty typical with Rythmik). After returning the Hsu I chose the XS30 and compared it to the Ultra, but they were going to perform different duties. I also auditioned the Sub 1 and JL Fathom 212's, but these auditions were not in-home auditions, so a fair comparison could not be made.

Kini62 04-30-2014 05:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

If they perform the same as the Chase version of those subs, they either need (a) a lot of room gain and/or (b) a lot of EQ. Good product for the money, but you need to be prepared for that.

Meanwhile, I have asked them for frequency response information on their new subs because their website information seems misleading. And this is what happened: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1512510/official-chane-music-cinema-subwoofer-thread#post_24418299 (read from here). I personally wouldn't buy from them since they seem unwilling to provide a straight answer about the anechoic response of those subs. That, and there was a lot of drama surrounding Chase Home Theater. I think you can do better when it comes to dealing with Internet direct subwoofer vendor.

Just read that thread. A whole lot of .........................

Most of it seems like a totally unfair attack on Jon, who likely knows more about speaker design than 99.9% of the forum.

It's is unfair to ask them to give raw sub output data (no EQ) when no ID sub maker provides the same. Depending on how you EQ them and how big of an amp you use they can be pretty much whatever you want them to be.

shadyJ 04-30-2014 05:52 PM

The ULS-15 handles high end very well. Its low end is boosted, so the high end can seem tame by comparison. The low end boost can be reduced by the ULF Trim knob by 6 dB which will give the upper bass frequencies more prominence. I think the sub would be used better and better understood if the boost and ULF Trim feature was simply removed.

cel4145 04-30-2014 05:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Most of it seems like a totally unfair attack on Jon, who likely knows more about speaker design than 99.9% of the forum.

It's is unfair to ask them to give raw sub output data (no EQ) when no ID sub maker provides the same. Depending on how you EQ them and how big of an amp you use they can be pretty much whatever you want them to be.

Oh, please. Jon's knowledge of speaker design has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with whether or not that information would be helpful to people. Even if you don't understand how to use that information, of course it would. And of course it's fair. The other ID vendors provide the response for the sub that they are delivering to one's door so that one can make a decision about how it would perform in one's room. There is nothing wrong with wanting that same information for a passive sub. Particularly a sealed sub.

Kini62 04-30-2014 06:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Oh, please. Jon's knowledge of speaker design has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with whether or not that information would be helpful to people. Even if you don't understand how to use that information, of course it would. And of course it's fair. The other ID vendors provide the response for the sub that they are delivering to one's door so that one can make a decision about how it would perform in one's room. There is nothing wrong with wanting that same information for a passive sub. Particularly a sealed sub.

This is the point. The chane subs can be anything YOU want them to be at your door depending on the amp you use and what external EQ is applied. There is no point in chane posting "raw" data since there is no standard configuration for their passive subs. The response/output is totally dependent on external configuration and end user preference.

Additionally it shouldn't be too hard to figure out some type of numbers. Find the model driver they are using, size of the box and there you have it. Everything else is end user configurable.

eljaycanuck 04-30-2014 06:07 PM

Quote:
It's is unfair to ask them to give raw sub output data (no EQ) when no ID sub maker provides the same. Depending on how you EQ them and how big of an amp you use they can be pretty much whatever you want them to be.
Chane sells Subwoofer Systems - subs paired with amps. The product pages all have something similar to the following, which is taken from this page:
Quote:
System
- Frequency response, raw:
- Frequency response, equalized as designed:
- Output 20-31.5 Hz: 104 dB*
- Output 40-63 Hz: 113 dB*
- Output 20-63 Hz: 110.2 dB*
What prevents them from providing the corresponding FR curve and the amp settings used to achieve it?

derrickdj1 04-30-2014 06:19 PM

The whole Ideal of using the Chane subs is to choose which amp you want. Most other subs have built-in DSP. I use the Berhinger I Nuke amps for my DSP along with MCACC. This allows one to shape the frequency response to the room. Thes subs offer some of the most bang for the buck to be found without going DYI. There 18 in vented small subwoofer is a great valuse. For the money that the OP wants to spend, get two and have the added benefit of a better room response. Using raw response data is not very applicable to in room performance.

gtpsuper24 04-30-2014 06:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Oh, please. Jon's knowledge of speaker design has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with whether or not that information would be helpful to people. Even if you don't understand how to use that information, of course it would. And of course it's fair. The other ID vendors provide the response for the sub that they are delivering to one's door so that one can make a decision about how it would perform in one's room. There is nothing wrong with wanting that same information for a passive sub. Particularly a sealed sub.

Couldn't agree more. Actually very disappointed Jon merged with Chase. As far as Chase subs go, I myself would stay far away. Too many other quality top notch ID subwoofers out there to even bother with Chase subs.

cel4145 04-30-2014 06:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Additionally it shouldn't be too hard to figure out some type of numbers. Find the model driver they are using, size of the box and there you have it. Everything else is end user configurable.

That's silly. Why should the consumer have to guess like this when Chane could simply provide the data? LOL

Kini62 04-30-2014 07:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

That's silly. Why should the consumer have to guess like this when Chane could simply provide the data? LOL

From their website
System

Frequency response, raw:
Frequency response, equalized as designed: Perhaps they could use a little more detail on this.
Ultra-low bass 20-31.5 Hz: 104.6 dB*
Low bass 40-63 Hz: 119.1 dB*
Average 20-63 Hz: 115.5 dB*

*CEA-2010 specification, driver limited. Measured at 2 meters, continuous RMS. Add 9 dB for 1 meter peak input.

Looks pretty much like a sealed high output sub to me, with the more normal characteristic mid bass hump you see in most sealed designs.

Of course they don't say what amp they used either, but for the money a pair of them with the Dayton SA- 1000 are a good deal for any small to medium sized room. You get the output and benefit of two large, sealed subs for little more than the price of a XS30. IMO a pair of the chane subs even with the Dayton SA-1000 would have an output advantage over a single XS30 from 20hz up plus the dual sub benefit.

This is the output they list for a pair with the Dayton SA-1000
System

Frequency response, raw:
Frequency response, equalized as designed:
Output 20-31.5 Hz: 110.6 dB*
Output 40-63 Hz: 122 dB*
Output 20-63 Hz: 119.2 dB*

*CEA-2010 specification, driver limited. Measured at 2 meters, continuous RMS. Add 9 dB for 1 meter peak input.

Sure, I guess they could post more info, but I don't even see a chart at PSA only a hard to read graph.


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