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Old 05-04-2014, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey all,

 

So I've just bought some monitor audio silver 8's LRC and a yamaha 3030.

 

At the moment I'm tossing up between the following subs

 

Velodyne EQ max 15 -$1000 AUD

Monitor Audio RSW 12 -$1700 AUD

SVS SB/PB 2000 -$1000 AUD

 

I would have gone for a HSU vtf-15h, however as there is no supplier here in Australia, that poses a problem for any issues that might occur as well as having to fork out an extra $500 for postage/insurance/customs tax etc

 

This is the room. With the red line indicating the screen position and the brown lines indicating the seating area.

 

Probably used at a 70 \ 30 split between movies \ music. And then the music genres we listen to are close to everything under the sun.

 

Any help would be great! Thanks all!

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Old 05-04-2014, 03:30 PM
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SVS PB2000 will be the superior option by a huge margin.

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Old 05-04-2014, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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SVS PB2000 will be the superior option by a huge margin.


Awesome, could you give me a quick explanation why? :D

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Old 05-04-2014, 03:45 PM
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eq-max-15+down+vs+cea-2010+suggested.jpg

 

PB-2000 Performance

 

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.  Also, the PB2000 will have higher maximum output and lower distortion.   A 5 year bumper to bumper warranty is nice also.

 

The monitor audio is a sealed sub, which is not a good option for your room with a 30' dimension.  Room gain will start at a value of 565/(longest room dimension in feet) or 565/30 = 19Hz.  Basically, you will not get any room gain until 18Hz.  At that point, it is too late....a sealed sub will have substantially rolled off output at that point, so low frequency output for movies will be weak, unless you get at least four of them to match the single PB2000.

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Old 05-04-2014, 04:39 PM
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Bear, very nice work and great explanation.

 

I agree with Bear that your room is way to big to support a single sealed sub, now if you were to go multiples then you may be able to consider it and get good results. That said, there are two ways to get the most bass out of your dollar. The first is DIY and that is great for people who are handy and like to build things in their spare time and learn about setting up subwoofers in the process. The 2nd is the ID subwoofer route and SVS is one of the best out there. Some other ones out there are PSA, HSU and Rythmik and Outlaw. There's also a new on known as Reaction. 

 

Bottom line, you will get a lot more bass for your money if you look to the ID companies. So of the choices you list my vote is for the SVS PB2000. 

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Old 05-04-2014, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank for that bear, I appreciate you taking the time to educate me :)

 

 

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Originally Posted by Hopinater View Post
 

Bear, very nice work and great explanation.

 

I agree with Bear that your room is way to big to support a single sealed sub, now if you were to go multiples then you may be able to consider it and get good results. That said, there are two ways to get the most bass out of your dollar. The first is DIY and that is great for people who are handy and like to build things in their spare time and learn about setting up subwoofers in the process. The 2nd is the ID subwoofer route and SVS is one of the best out there. Some other ones out there are PSA, HSU and Rythmik and Outlaw. There's also a new on known as Reaction. 

 

Bottom line, you will get a lot more bass for your money if you look to the ID companies. So of the choices you list my vote is for the SVS PB2000. 

 

Hopinater, although doing a diy sub would be something I think I would very much enjoy, at the moment I think I lack both the knowledge and time to do it properly. Maybe when I've spent more time to know my current system, I can start thinking about that.

 

Thank you also for your input, much appreciated :)

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Old 05-04-2014, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by omiee View Post
 

Hopinater, although doing a diy sub would be something I think I would very much enjoy, at the moment I think I lack both the knowledge and time to do it properly. Maybe when I've spent more time to know my current system, I can start thinking about that.

 

Thank you also for your input, much appreciated :)

I'm the same, that's why I went with PSA for my subs. I may do DIY someday, maybe, but not now. Enjoy you're search for a new sub. :)

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Old 05-05-2014, 08:25 AM
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I believe PSA has a Austrailian vendor now if you were considering a 15" sub like the VTF-15. The XV15se would be a great option as well.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide --> http://www.mediafire.com/view/aolmz2..._101_v3.92.pdf

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Old 05-05-2014, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I believe PSA has a Austrailian vendor now if you were considering a 15" sub like the VTF-15. The XV15se would be a great option as well.

I didn't know they had added a vendor in Australia. Good to know.

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Old 05-05-2014, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I believe PSA has a Austrailian vendor now if you were considering a 15" sub like the VTF-15. The XV15se would be a great option as well.

Correct,

http://www.deephzaudio.com/index.html

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Old 05-05-2014, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Please correct me if I am wrong or misinterpreting the graphs below:

XV15 Frequency Response

PSA XV15

PB-2000 Performance

SVS PB2000

 

Given the explain by Bear above, wouldn't the PB-2000 still be a better choice for me based on the above information?

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Old 05-05-2014, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omiee View Post
 

Please correct me if I am wrong or misinterpreting the graphs below:

XV15 Frequency Response

PSA XV15

PB-2000 Performance

SVS PB2000

 

Given the explain by Bear above, wouldn't the PB-2000 still be a better choice for me based on the above information?

This is not quite as simple of a question to answer.  The reason the PB2000 graph looks so flat in a ground plane test, is that there is a lot of EQ applied below 30 Hz in order to make the line that flat in an outdoor ground plane measurement.  What you see is that 20 Hz output on that graph is around 102 dB, which is very close to max output.  If you turned the sub up louder, the line would continue to go higher above 30Hz, but not at 20, up until the point that it reaches its maximum output at the higher frequencies.  The PB2000 is a very good sub for $800.

 

However, consider that a sub has two main jobs to do: provide a high enough level of clean, distortion free bass, and do so over an acceptable frequency range.  Both the XV15 and PB2000 will have roughly the same low end extension down to 16Hz or so.  When looking at output capabilities, If you added a 2nd PB2000, you would gain 6dB of output at 20Hz, up to 108 dB.  This is double the output.

 

The XV15 has roughly double the output of a PB2000 across the entire frequency range, for an extra $100 in price.  If you want the maximum bang for the buck in your large room, this would be a good option.  However I am not familiar with PSA's Australian pricing structure.  The SVS, although a bit higher than it is here, appears to have a very moderate markup considering the international availability.  Maybe China is closer?

 

You will have to check out your local pricing to see if the XV15 is a good option.  Over here the value is amazing.

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Old 05-05-2014, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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This is not quite as simple of a question to answer.  The reason the PB2000 graph looks so flat in a ground plane test, is that there is a lot of EQ applied below 30 Hz in order to make the line that flat in an outdoor ground plane measurement.  What you see is that 20 Hz output on that graph is around 102 dB, which is very close to max output.  If you turned the sub up louder, the line would continue to go higher above 30Hz, but not at 20, up until the point that it reaches its maximum output at the higher frequencies.  The PB2000 is a very good sub for $800.

 

However, consider that a sub has two main jobs to do: provide a high enough level of clean, distortion free bass, and do so over an acceptable frequency range.  Both the XV15 and PB2000 will have roughly the same low end extension down to 16Hz or so.  When looking at output capabilities, If you added a 2nd PB2000, you would gain 6dB of output at 20Hz, up to 108 dB.  This is double the output.

 

The XV15 has roughly double the output of a PB2000 across the entire frequency range, for an extra $100 in price.  If you want the maximum bang for the buck in your large room, this would be a good option.  However I am not familiar with PSA's Australian pricing structure.  The SVS, although a bit higher than it is here, appears to have a very moderate markup considering the international availability.  Maybe China is closer?

 

You will have to check out your local pricing to see if the XV15 is a good option.  Over here the value is amazing.

 

 

Okay, I think I am slowly understanding, thank you again.

 

Now the only issue I have here is that since I'm in Australia, the PB-2000 is $1000 whereas the XV15 is $1425. At $100 extra it's a no-brainer, but at almost 1.5x the price, do you think it's still worth it?

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Old 05-05-2014, 05:56 PM
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Okay, I think I am slowly understanding, thank you again.

 

Now the only issue I have here is that since I'm in Australia, the PB-2000 is $1000 whereas the XV15 is $1425. At $100 extra it's a no-brainer, but at almost 1.5x the price, do you think it's still worth it?

If it were double the price, or $800 higher I would say no, because at that point you could get dual PB2000's, match the output, and gain a lot of benefit from having dual subs.

 

At $425, I would say it is still worth it.  You have a pretty big space to fill, and double the output could very well make a nice difference for you.  Depends on how loud you listen as well.  Just keep in mind, no one has ever gotten a sub and said...dang, I wish I had gotten the weaker sub with less output.  Guess how many people upgrade within 6 months?

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Old 05-05-2014, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, in that situation should I not then just get a PB12 Plus at $1800? Still less than double the price of the PB-2000 but a reasonable improvement?

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Old 05-05-2014, 06:13 PM
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Okay, in that situation should I not then just get a PB12 Plus at $1800? Still less than double the price of the PB-2000 but a reasonable improvement?

At that price, I would take a single XV15se with more output for less money, or dual PB2000's for a bit more money($2k) but also with more output.  The XV15 has about the same output than dual PB2000's would have for $2k.  

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Old 05-05-2014, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, thank you :)

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Old 05-05-2014, 11:09 PM
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It would be nice to mention that sealed sub have a very different graph in room vs anechoic due to room gain. Also built-in or someother type of EQ is necessary and normal.. Sometimes picking the lowest 3 dp point can lead to an in-room response that may not be manageable in a room with limited PEQ. I am not complaining about bear's recommendation. Just pointing out there are other considerations. This person has a sizable room and most likely will need 2 vented subwoofers.
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Old 05-05-2014, 11:17 PM
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It would be nice to mention that sealed sub have a very different graph in room vs anechoic due to room gain. Also built-in or someother type of EQ is necessary and normal.. Sometimes picking the lowest 3 dp point can lead to an in-room response that may not be manageable in a room with limited PEQ that is small. I am not complaining about bear's recommendation. Just pointing out there are other considerations. This person has a sizable room and most likely will need 2 vented subwoofers.
Sorry for the double post, I must have hit the wrong button.smile.gif
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