I have a small room and am incapable of making decisions, please help! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been granted authorization from the wife to replace our Klipsch sub-10 with a new sub (or two). The room dimensions are roughly 13W x 14D x 7H (1274 cu ft), but the room is open into a hallway as shown below. Seating is one long sofa across the back wall (4 seats). Subwoofer placement unfortunately isn't really negotiable, one sub goes in the corner and if I go with a dual setup it would be in place of the blu-ray rack on the other side. Receiver is a Yamaha RX-V673, speakers are 4x EMP E5Bi's and an E5Ci center. Usage in the room is ~95% movies / TV, and the last 5% is split between concert blurays / other music and gaming (Xbox 360). Budget is roughly $1000, but can be slightly flexible.

I've been entertaining the following options for the past few days and have done a lot of reading, but I just can't seem to make up my mind. I know it's a smaller room, but I'm not sure how being open to the hallway should affect my decision, specifically in regard to a single vs dual subs. For blurays, our volume is usually around -18db on the receiver, if it matters. Anyway, here's what I've been considering:

2x SVS PB-1000 - $950
2x SVS PB12-NSD's (outlet @ $549/ea) - $1100
2x Rythmik LV12R - $1025
1x SVS PB-2000 - $800

Obviously I could save some money and just go with a single sub of any mentioned above if it would be adequate for that size of room, but I think with the seating being spread across the back wall -- in addition to being open to the hallway -- it might be beneficial to have two. Then again, I've never had dual subs so I'm not really sure. The PB-2000 is probably my least-favored option at this point, mainly because of the price tag and the possibility of me being unhappy with just one ... and I don't see adding a 2nd of those down the road as being a possibility. At least with the cheaper options, if I get one to start and decide I want/need a 2nd, I'd still be close to on budget. I am, however, leaning more toward the SVS brand than Rythmik, specifically because of the longer amp warranty.

Does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations?


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post #2 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 09:32 AM
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If it was me personally I would opt for the dual SVS PB12's. At $549 that's a hell of a deal considering they used to cost about $750 brand new before being discontinued.
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post #3 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 09:38 AM
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Also, scratch the PB-1000's off your list because for a mere $50 dollars more the PB12 will demolish it.
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post #4 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

If it was me personally I would opt for the dual SVS PB12's. At $549 that's a hell of a deal considering they used to cost about $750 brand new before being discontinued.

Thanks for the input! Would you recommend going for the dual setup straight out of the gate or would one be more than adequate for the space?
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post #5 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 09:48 AM
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I would definitely go with dual subs, and probably SVS PB-1000 because of their small footprint and given the size of the room. No doubt the bigger svs subs would have more output, but are you the type that would really use it?

Having the couch against the back wall is almost a guarantee to deliver a boomy response. I would try moving the tv into the corner it's next to, and use the diagonal length of the room. Then you could fit the one sub in corner behind the tv, and the other sub in the opposite corner behind the couch.

 
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post #6 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Spanglo View Post

I would definitely go with dual subs, and probably SVS PB-1000 because of their small footprint and given the size of the room. No doubt the bigger svs subs would have more output, but are you the type that would really use it?

Having the couch against the back wall is almost a guarantee to deliver a boomy response. I would try moving the tv into the corner it's next to, and use the diagonal length of the room. Then you could fit the one sub in corner behind the tv, and the other sub in the opposite corner behind the couch.

That's my dilemma ... I'm sure the PB12-NSD has a lot more output, but given the size of the room I don't know that it's really necessary. Also, considering our normal listening volume, I don't think we'd run into output issues with the PB-1000 anyway.

I ran the diagonal thing by my wife, and that was shot down immediately. Might have to try it someday just to see though smile.gif
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post #7 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Spanglo View Post

I would definitely go with dual subs, and probably SVS PB-1000 because of their small footprint and given the size of the room. No doubt the bigger svs subs would have more output, but are you the type that would really use it?

Having the couch against the back wall is almost a guarantee to deliver a boomy response. I would try moving the tv into the corner it's next to, and use the diagonal length of the room. Then you could fit the one sub in corner behind the tv, and the other sub in the opposite corner behind the couch.

Is it not always better to have plenty of headroom as opposed to not enough? He can always turn them down if need be. The PB12's are not monsters in size either.

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post #8 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

Is it not always better to have plenty of headroom as opposed to not enough? He can always turn them down if need be. The PB12's are not monsters in size either.

Doesn't sound like he maxes the volume, so he would only missing out on some below 20Hz extension. To some people that's not a big deal.

Now that I've thought about it, I actually suggest dual SB1000 for that room.

 
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post #9 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Spanglo View Post


Now that I've thought about it, I actually suggest dual SB1000 for that room.
eek.gif

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post #10 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

eek.gif

Ha I know.

I have a 13x16x8 room, and I started off with a single SVS SB12, then I bought a 2nd one, which filled the room effortlessly. I have no doubt dual SB1000s would fill that small room.

It's nice having such small subs too, because they can be hidden under furniture, and don't draw attention if out in the open. Yeah ok, so I also have a pair of 18's now too, but those things dominate the room and are huge eye sore compared the small SVS subs. If I wasn't so interested in ultra low frequencies, then I would be running quad SB12s.

 
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post #11 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 12:35 PM
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My biggest thing is do it right the first time. I have went through a handful of subwoofers each time wanting to experience more. Dual PB12's in that size room or heck even dual Rythmik LV12R's should have you grinning from ear to ear for a long time. If you ever move into a larger space these subs should still do just fine. It's never a bad thing to have enough muscle when it comes to subs if space allows it.
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post #12 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 12:35 PM
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That picture looks oddly familiar as I remember that carpet and liking your TV stand.

Although I love the PB2000, I would always suggest dual subs over a single. If you have the room for the SVS PB12-NSD and the wife agrees to them then go that route, otherwise the PB1000s should work great for you.


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post #13 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

Is it not always better to have plenty of headroom as opposed to not enough? He can always turn them down if need be. The PB12's are not monsters in size either.

That's what I'm thinking. There's a slight chance we move to a new house inside of 5 years (mainly to reduce commute time), so I do want to leave my options open a little bit.

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Ha I know.

I have a 13x16x8 room, and I started off with a single SVS SB12, then I bought a 2nd one, which filled the room effortlessly. I have no doubt dual SB1000s would fill that small room.

It's nice having such small subs too, because they can be hidden under furniture, and don't draw attention if out in the open. Yeah ok, so I also have a pair of 18's now too, but those things dominate the room and are huge eye sore compared the small SVS subs. If I wasn't so interested in ultra low frequencies, then I would be running quad SB12s.

Since SVS's ported subs are ported on the front, I don't think we'll have a problem with the size of either the PB-1000 or PB12-NSD as they can be a bit closer to the rear wall than a rear-ported sub can be. That being said, I didn't really consider any of the sealed models because so many people said ported are best for theater usage. Looks like there are some SB12's on the outlet. I'd imagine I could probably feel the PB12's in my chest, but I'm guessing the SB12's wouldn't go that far? I'm not really sure about the frequencies ... I don't know much beyond setting the crossover at 80. Would I really miss from 23 down to 18 by going with the SB12 instead of the PB12? Looks like the price difference is ~$100/pair cheaper for the SB.
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Originally Posted by swargolet View Post

That picture looks oddly familiar as I remember that carpet and liking your TV stand.

Although I love the PB2000, I would always suggest dual subs over a single. If you have the room for the SVS PB12-NSD and the wife agrees to them then go that route, otherwise the PB1000s should work great for you.

It was posted on the home theater subreddit a few weeks ago. That's probably why smile.gif


Unrelated, I did talk to Darren at SVS a little while ago and was told that two PB12-NSD's in a room my size would probably approach an IMAX experience as far as the subs are concerned. We'd never get to that volume, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't hang up with a huge grin on my face...
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post #14 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 01:00 PM
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That's what I'm thinking. There's a slight chance we move to a new house inside of 5 years (mainly to reduce commute time), so I do want to leave my options open a little bit.
Since SVS's ported subs are ported on the front, I don't think we'll have a problem with the size of either the PB-1000 or PB12-NSD as they can be a bit closer to the rear wall than a rear-ported sub can be. That being said, I didn't really consider any of the sealed models because so many people said ported are best for theater usage. Looks like there are some SB12's on the outlet. I'd imagine I could probably feel the PB12's in my chest, but I'm guessing the SB12's wouldn't go that far? I'm not really sure about the frequencies ... I don't know much beyond setting the crossover at 80. Would I really miss from 23 down to 18 by going with the SB12 instead of the PB12? quote]

The PB12 would provide far more output down low where it counts for movies. See for yourself below.

SVS PB12-NSD




SVS SB12-NSD


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post #15 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 01:13 PM
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Buy the most expensive subS you can afford now even if you are adding a few hundred to your budget. Like JT mentioned (he knows well about it smile.gif), it will save you money in the long run. Notice I put subS smile.gif. Ported sub does better for home theater for the money.
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post #16 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 01:24 PM
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Buy the most expensive subS you can afford now even if you are adding a few hundred to your budget. Like JT mentioned (he knows well about it smile.gif), it will save you money in the long run. Notice I put subS smile.gif. Ported sub does better for home theater for the money.

Unfortunately, I had to learn the hard way. wink.gif

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post #17 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Going to talk it over with the wife tonight and take some measurements to see what we could fit on either side of the TV stand without extending out past the corner on the right side (her rules!). She liked the looks of the sealed sub a lot, so now the SB12's are in the mix too. At this point, it's between the SB12, PB1000, and PB12-NSD's. I'm relatively certain I prefer the overkill route at this point, as long as they would fit. If it doesn't fit, I'll probably call and see what they recommend between the SB12 & PB1000 and go that route.

Probably going to be placing an order one way or the other tonight. I'll post an update later.
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post #18 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 03:05 PM
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The dual PB12-NSD's are the drastically superior option.....don't settle for less it is too big of an upgrade from the little PB1000 for some pocket change.  You don't listen extremely loud, but this way you never run out of headroom.  Also, you can add a nice house curve to boost the low end for a lot of extra impact on movies.


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post #19 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 04:07 PM
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In a room that small a pair of sb12s would have quite a bit of room gain down low plus the easier placement.
Tough choice. I know I prefer the sound of sealed even though I have ported subs. If I had to do over if have sealed subs in my small room.

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post #20 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
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It was posted on the home theater subreddit a few weeks ago. That's probably why smile.gif


Unrelated, I did talk to Darren at SVS a little while ago and was told that two PB12-NSD's in a room my size would probably approach an IMAX experience as far as the subs are concerned. We'd never get to that volume, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't hang up with a huge grin on my face...

Ah ya that was it!

I think even if you went the dual PB12-NSD route, you wouldn't ever reach the limits of them in that room, which is a good thing. I used to have dual PB2000s in a sealed room about that size and for some reason I didn't get nearly the impact that I do in the much larger open room I have now. I'm not sure if that was due to being a cement floor, crappy room construction, or something else. Now when they hit sub 20hz, it shakes the couch with authority even though the subs are over 7 ft away. With that said though, I'm very happy I went with the absurd overkill route as now at my new place, if I would've gotten the SB13U instead, it probably wouldnt be enough. The only reason you may possibly regret going with the PB12-NSDs, is due to the size as you won't have the placement possibilities that you'd have with a smaller sub. I think the positives of going with it, far outweigh the negatives though.


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post #21 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xonim View Post

Going to talk it over with the wife tonight and take some measurements to see what we could fit on either side of the TV stand without extending out past the corner on the right side (her rules!). She liked the looks of the sealed sub a lot, so now the SB12's are in the mix too. At this point, it's between the SB12, PB1000, and PB12-NSD's. I'm relatively certain I prefer the overkill route at this point, as long as they would fit. If it doesn't fit, I'll probably call and see what they recommend between the SB12 & PB1000 and go that route.

Probably going to be placing an order one way or the other tonight. I'll post an update later.

Tell the wife listen hun this is big and there's even bigger than this. It might help!


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post #22 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Placed the order about an hour ago ... Went with two PB12s from the outlet that had cosmetic defects to stay a little closer to budget ($1043 spent on a $1000 budget) -- one was short a bit ... if you can even call it that ... of laminate on the bottom toward the back, the other had some scuffs on the side that will be up against the tv stand. Verified the 5 year warranty starts with me and isn't transferred from the original owner...if the warranty is same as new (it is), why not?

They'll fit where we want them to go with a few inches to spare. Wife is ok with them based on the pictures and my demonstration of their dimensions, so we'll see.

Now ... How can I soundproof my windows so my neighbors don't shoot me? biggrin.gif

Thanks all! I'll report back when they get here.
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post #23 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 06:04 PM
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Nice! I'm sure you will be pleased. Both my FV15HP's are b-stock and in mint condition. Be sure to post some pics and share your thoughts after you receive them.

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post #24 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 07:44 PM
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Wait, wait. You need dual Orbit Shifters for that room with the option for adding two more, or else you will be missing real bass!!

biggrin.gif Sorry couldn't resist the insane suggestion. No subwoofer suggestion thread should ever stay as sane and cordial as this one. Congrats on the purchase! You will be very impressed, you choose well.
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post #25 of 46 Old 05-28-2014, 08:53 PM
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Good choice OP! The PB12-NSD for 549.00 is probably the best deal going right now when available. Also I am glad you did not go with the PB-1000, that sub is routinely traded-in for a upgrade. While I am sure it is a fantastic sub, I think it comes up slightly short on output for the average enthusiast. The PB12's will off much more headroom...which is good, that just means more clean output on tap and that is a good thing. A sub always sounds better when it does not have to work hard to achieve ones desired output levels. smile.gif
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post #26 of 46 Old 05-29-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xonim View Post

Placed the order about an hour ago ... Went with two PB12s from the outlet that had cosmetic defects to stay a little closer to budget ($1043 spent on a $1000 budget) -- one was short a bit ... if you can even call it that ... of laminate on the bottom toward the back, the other had some scuffs on the side that will be up against the tv stand. Verified the 5 year warranty starts with me and isn't transferred from the original owner...if the warranty is same as new (it is), why not?

They'll fit where we want them to go with a few inches to spare. Wife is ok with them based on the pictures and my demonstration of their dimensions, so we'll see.

Now ... How can I soundproof my windows so my neighbors don't shoot me? biggrin.gif

Thanks all! I'll report back when they get here.

Nice choice, glad the wifey let you go big.

You'll get extra low frequency gain if you leave the windows open cool.gif

 
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post #27 of 46 Old 05-29-2014, 12:47 PM
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I hope they work well where you want them, lol. Congrats on the new subs.

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post #28 of 46 Old 05-29-2014, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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You'll get extra low frequency gain if you leave the windows open cool.gif

The neighbors on that side of the house aren't the friendliest of people, and they spend a lot of Thurs/Fri/Sat evenings out in their driveway around a portable fire pit thing. I can't imagine they would appreciate that. Maybe I'll just try it on a Sunday night instead? biggrin.gif

Edit: Apparently these PB12-NSD's are popular. There were 4 listings up yesterday with cosmetic damage, we ended up with our 2nd and 3rd choices because our first choice sold an hour or two earlier. They also had 3 "no damage" subs in stock when I talked to them yesterday midday, and that listing was also gone as of this morning. I guess I got the order in at the right time.
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post #29 of 46 Old 05-29-2014, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Xonim View Post

The neighbors on that side of the house aren't the friendliest of people, and they spend a lot of Thurs/Fri/Sat evenings out in their driveway around a portable fire pit thing. I can't imagine they would appreciate that. Maybe I'll just try it on a Sunday night instead? biggrin.gif

Edit: Apparently these PB12-NSD's are popular. There were 4 listings up yesterday with cosmetic damage, we ended up with our 2nd and 3rd choices because our first choice sold an hour or two earlier. They also had 3 "no damage" subs in stock when I talked to them yesterday midday, and that listing was also gone as of this morning. I guess I got the order in at the right time.

Are the houses in your neighborhood fairly close in proximity to each other?

Receiver - Denon 1713
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #30 of 46 Old 05-29-2014, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

Are the houses in your neighborhood fairly close in proximity to each other?

I'd say we have maybe 20-25 feet between the back window in that room and the neighbor's house. They don't have any doors/windows on that side/face of the house though.
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