Living Room System Upgrade Advice Requested - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 53 Old 06-04-2014, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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living room about 3,572 cubic feet, with 3 openings and hard wood floors

pioneer elite vsx-94 AVR

pioneer elite blue ray

Energy CF-70 L/R

Energy CC-10 C

Energy CF-30 SL/SR

Energy CB-20 RSL/RSR

Martin Logan Dynamo 500 Sub

 

I have 3K to spend

 

i have access to some dealer pricing on Yamaha RX-A3030 and Denon X4000

 

I know that I can add another sub even if my current AVR is #.1

 

Not having any problems with my AVR, however, I do know that my Sub is the weakest link in my current system

 

If I were to purchase the 3030 and (2) PSA XV15se subs, puts me just over my budget, if I go with the denon and same subs, i am about $400 under budget

 

would like some suggestions on what makes sense...

 

Do I leave my AVR, and just concentrate on new subs?

Do I go ahead and upgrade the AVR and then either purchase (1) big sub or (2) subs of lesser value (i.e. purchase a Rythmik FV15HP verses the SV15se etc...)

 

Thanks in advance for your input...

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post #2 of 53 Old 06-04-2014, 03:30 PM
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^^ If you aren't having any problems with your current AVR, then keep it. I'd concentrate on new subs and with a 3k budget, you can get a whole heck of a lot of woofage. That 3k should buy you a couple of Rythmiks, certainly a couple of XS30se's with change to spare or a single SubMersive or JTR Cap.

Since it's in your living room, I assume that looks are important and you only have a couple of seating areas (couch and perhaps a chair). If that's the case, one grand sub could work out well. I have one XS30 in a 3,400 cu. ft. room and have no problems shaking everything in sight. If your seating positions are fairly widely spaced, two is preferable to help induce room smoothing and seating coverage.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #3 of 53 Old 06-04-2014, 03:38 PM
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I don't know much about particular AVRs, but Denon has great amplifiers and their AVR uses real Audyssey MultEQ XT32 which allows room correction for two separate subwoofers - a real advantage when using two. Separate equalization of subs makes a huge difference in smoothing the in-room bass response.

When using standard room correction with only one sub output, the subs are treated as a singe device whereas when there is independent equalization each sub is corrected independently and because of their different locations in the room allows a much smoother combined bass response. One sub may have a cancellation null at a particular frequency because of its location, but the other sub may be able to fill in at that frequency due to its different location - this is done at all frequencies.

Have you thought about SVS subwoofers?

Ported - two for $1500 http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/dual-subwoofers/dual-pb-2000#.U4-PmfmwLYg
Sealed - two for $1300 http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/dual-subwoofers/dual-sb-2000#.U4-PmPmwLYg

2-Ch (HT L/R): Oppo BDP-105 BD, Adcom GFP-750 pre, Bryston 10B Sub Xover, Bryston 4BSST2 / Paradigm Signature S4 v.2 (L/R), (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Subs)
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post #4 of 53 Old 06-04-2014, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I think one sub, a good one will be great
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post #5 of 53 Old 06-04-2014, 07:19 PM
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^^ Then take a look at Seaton SubMersive (sealed) or JTR Captivator (sealed or ported) or the PSA Triax (sealed) ... each are around 3 grand. Can't get much better than those.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #6 of 53 Old 06-04-2014, 10:53 PM
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If you have the room buy a pair of subs...a single sub can not smooth any room modes. I would Look at a pair of PSA XV30se, Rythmik FV15HP's, or Captivator 1000's.
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post #7 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 04:25 AM
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^.  You have the budget for a nice AVR and dual subs....go that route.   The X4000 would be a great choice due to sub eq ht which dials in dual subs individually.  The X4000 plus two good subs will give you the best all around performance imo.  Dual Rythmiks would be a step up(2dB or so in max output and lower extension), but you would lose the ability to eq them separately with the avr.  Audysey XT32 is supposed to work well also.

 

So I would either get dual Rythmik FV15HP,---- or------ dual PSAXV15se and X4000 AVR

 

As far as 2v1, generally 2 is better than one unless the disparity is enormous:

 

2 xv15 > 1 FV15, but one captivator has such a huge advantage in output....I would still only do this route if you can see adding another down the road.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #8 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shane View Post
 

living room about 3,572 cubic feet

 

 

'about'

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post #9 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 05:54 AM
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IMO:
- Keep the AVR.
- Get dual Rythmik FV15HPs (~$2,700, shipped).
- Add a miniDSP 2x4 ($105 + shipping) w/ 2Way Advanced Plug-in ($10 + shipping) plus either:
i) a UMIK-1 ($75 + shipping) (and then download free REW software); or
ii) a Dayton OmniMic v2 ($298, shipped) (which includes proprietary software).
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post #10 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 06:09 AM
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^^^What he said! IMO the sub(s) is the most noticeable improvement you can make to your system, so choose wisely. Once you have one with solid output and extension you will find yourself wondering how come you did not get one a long time ago. Also, I promise you that you will not stop grinning for at least a week. I've had my Rythmik's for a few months now and I'm still smiling see biggrin.gif
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Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #11 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Are there cheat sheets on how to use a minidsp?
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post #12 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

IMO:
- Keep the AVR.
- Get dual Rythmik FV15HPs (~$2,700, shipped).
- Add a miniDSP 2x4 ($105 + shipping) w/ 2Way Advanced Plug-in ($10 + shipping) plus either:
i) a UMIK-1 ($75 + shipping) (and then download free REW software); or
ii) a Dayton OmniMic v2 ($298, shipped) (which includes proprietary software).

You decided what you are going to do yet Eljay?  This would be a good opportunity to start with a passive Captivator and an inuke 6000dsp :D  Upgrade proof, future proof...just add another passive cap someday.


AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

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post #13 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shane View Post

Are there cheat sheets on how to use a minidsp?

There are a few good write ups on this forum and of course very knowledgeable members who could help you. I'm not one of them! wink.gif

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
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Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #14 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 
You decided what you are going to do yet Eljay?
Not yet. I'm being decisively hesitant. smile.gif
Quote:
This would be a good opportunity to start with a passive Captivator and an inuke 6000dsp biggrin.gif   Upgrade proof, future proof...just add another passive cap someday.
If I had the budget, I'd love to get a couple of Cap S1s, or a pair of SubMs. As it is, I'm realistically eyeing something around dual XV15se's.

Soon! Maybe... wink.gif
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post #15 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shane 
Are there cheat sheets on how to use a minidsp?
This is a good starting point: Tutorial: Dual sub integration using the MiniDSP

miniDSP.com also has FAQs and a forum where you can ask questions.

But, honestly, basic set-up and configuration is actually pretty intuitive.
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post #16 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 07:19 AM
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An AVR with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 would be the easier way to go, the MiniDSP with mic and REW would be the DIY way to go - both would allow you to EQ two subs.

Two subs will really change your mind about bass and how smooth bas response can be - especially if your placement options are limited. If you have a good room, space for bass traps, and unlimited placement options multiple subs is less important. When I upgraded from a modest 10" sub with 100w to my dual 12" subs with 400w, the first time I ever ran a bass tone sweep it actually scared me it was so powerful!

2-Ch (HT L/R): Oppo BDP-105 BD, Adcom GFP-750 pre, Bryston 10B Sub Xover, Bryston 4BSST2 / Paradigm Signature S4 v.2 (L/R), (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Subs)
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post #17 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Mtn-tech, what brand & model did u go with
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post #18 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Let me throw a curve ball, I have access to some dealer pricing on 2 Polk dsw pro 660, $300 ea. thoughts?
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post #19 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shane View Post

Let me throw a curve ball, I have access to some dealer pricing on 2 Polk dsw pro 660, $300 ea. thoughts?
DSWPRO660wi
- 12" driver
- 400W (continuous) amp
- 25-125Hz +/-3dB

Tempting for $300/ea. but, otherwise, meh.

That said, if you're looking for pleasant bass (decent output, not much extension), I think they'd be a good option.
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post #20 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shane View Post

Let me throw a curve ball, I have access to some dealer pricing on 2 Polk dsw pro 660, $300 ea. thoughts?

Refer back to post #10 on this thread.....

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #21 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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could you explain what you mean by "extension" in reference to subs, sorry for my ignorance

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post #22 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post

An AVR with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 would be the easier way to go, the MiniDSP with mic and REW would be the DIY way to go - both would allow you to EQ two subs.

Two subs will really change your mind about bass and how smooth bas response can be - especially if your placement options are limited. If you have a good room, space for bass traps, and unlimited placement options multiple subs is less important. When I upgraded from a modest 10" sub with 100w to my dual 12" subs with 400w, the first time I ever ran a bass tone sweep it actually scared me it was so powerful!

+1

If you are not the kind of person that wants to learn how to use REW and mini DSP, dual PSA XV15se subs and the Denon X4000 will still be a super fantastic upgrade over your current sub.
Quote:
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could you explain what you mean by "extension" in reference to subs, sorry for my ignorance

Extension is how low a sub reaches in bass frequencies.

Your questions are answered: Speaker FAQ
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post #23 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Can I assume the tee & mini dsp would negate the need for a new avr
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post #24 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry REW, dang auto correct on iphone
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post #25 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 09:28 AM
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Yes. Your Pioneer has MCACC room EQ whose shortcoming is that it doesn't EQ sub(s). The miniDSP will do that. So, if you like your AVR, you don't need to sell it just to get good room EQ capability.

That said, it's not as straightforward as just running Audyssey *but* as long as you're OK with a bit of a challenge (but not a huge challenge), IMO miniDSP + REW is a good way to go.

FWIW: I have an AVR-X4000 + a miniDSP + an OmniMic. As good as MultEQ XT32 w/ Sub EQ HT is - and it is very good - I find that there's still some room for tweaking.
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post #26 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shane View Post

Let me throw a curve ball, I have access to some dealer pricing on 2 Polk dsw pro 660, $300 ea. thoughts?

The dsw pro660 is actually a pretty decent sub just not worth retail. For 300.00(or less) I doubt anything in that price range can touch it. It has a solid driver and is tuned fairly low (24hz).
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post #27 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I can pick up a denon 4000 for $900
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post #28 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

IMO, yes. Your Pioneer has MCACC room EQ whose shortcoming is that it doesn't EQ sub(s). The miniDSP will do that. So, if you like your AVR, you don't need to sell it just to get good room EQ capability.

That said, it's not as straightforward as just running Audyssey - but - as long as you're OK with a bit of a challenge (but not a huge challenge), miniDSP + REW is a good way to go.

This! Imo a Mini dsp has the potential to do a better job eq'ing the subs over any room correction software. Yes Audyssey XT32 sub eq ht is a nice feature but is by no means a end all. I would not sell your avr for that feature when you can buy a dsp for 100.00. Where XT32 shines is with the main speakers...so if you feel your main speakers response is lacking, XT32 could really help them.
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post #29 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 09:33 AM
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post #30 of 53 Old 06-05-2014, 09:34 AM
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Damn I would be all over that! Do they have more than one? smile.gif

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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