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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

lovinthehd's Avatar lovinthehd
11:11 PM Liked: 1031
post #31 of 46
06-12-2014 | Posts: 7,359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdl2282 View Post
If the BPS 212 can be compared to the SVS SB-1000 (perhaps not equal, but in a similar class) than I would call it a high-end subwoofer.

Also, listening to a single genre of music is never a good way to test a subwoofer, especially if it's rock music where the bass is not overly dynamic, and never really go below 30Hz.
These are still entry-level subs, including the SVS models mentioned.

As far as music my tastes are all over the place so not usually an issue to find a variety of things to check subs/speakers against. While heavy metal can describe quite a variety of music, some bass intense, if that's what you are going to use the sub for mainly then its a good test material for that user. What will you use to test?

You willing to put a sub together by chance?
sdl2282's Avatar sdl2282
11:28 PM Liked: 10
post #32 of 46
06-12-2014 | Posts: 25
Joined: Oct 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
These are still entry-level subs, including the SVS models mentioned.

As far as music my tastes are all over the place so not usually an issue to find a variety of things to check subs/speakers against. While heavy metal can describe quite a variety of music, some bass intense, if that's what you are going to use the sub for mainly then its a good test material for that user. What will you use to test?

You willing to put a sub together by chance?
If I were to test out a subwoofer, I would run through rock, classical, jazz, and some OST soundtracks with a lot of sub-bass (below 30Hz).
charmerci's Avatar charmerci
08:36 AM Liked: 96
post #33 of 46
06-13-2014 | Posts: 673
Joined: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdl2282 View Post
If the BPS 212 can be compared to the SVS SB-1000 (perhaps not equal, but in a similar class) than I would call it a high-end subwoofer.

Also, listening to a single genre of music is never a good way to test a subwoofer, especially if it's rock music where the bass is not overly dynamic, and never really goes below 30Hz.
I use Dave Grusin's Discovered Again (direct-to-disc recording of live jazz music using an upright bass, drums, piano, etc.) as my reference recording and it sounds fantastic - very accurate.
dsrussell's Avatar dsrussell
12:14 PM Liked: 504
post #34 of 46
06-13-2014 | Posts: 1,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdl2282 View Post
Also, listening to a single genre of music is never a good way to test a subwoofer, especially if it's rock music where the bass is not overly dynamic, and never really goes below 30Hz.
Perhaps I'm different in that I normally won't watch a movie or listen to music simply for the heavy bass. It must be a movie or music that I enjoy. And testing out a subwoofer for movies and music are two distinctly different animals.

I (I doubt I'm alone) find that testing out a subwoofer for music is best with music I like and know by rote, be it rock, new wave, classical, jazz or whatever. It's the type of music I will critically listen to and the artists I like have a wide range of sound and dynamics and is engineered extremely well. It doesn't matter to me if the music never goes much below 30 or 35 Hz, although there are some pieces I own that go down as low as 16 Hz. I have found that a good subwoofer will give substance, texture and detail to the deeper parts of music (a bass guitar, drums, etc.), without adding anything unnatural, unwanted or overwhelm the rest of the music. And yes, there may be some music that shows only a minor difference between the subwoofer being on or off, but if it isn't recorded or intended, then I feel it shouldn't be present. On some music, I've heard sounds I've never heard before and never knew existed. That's is where the surprise (or shock) comes in, and I've been surprised and disappointed in the way different subwoofers reproduced the music I like. That is precisely the reason I have two different brands of subwoofers -- one for movies and one for music.
lovinthehd's Avatar lovinthehd
12:27 PM Liked: 1031
post #35 of 46
06-13-2014 | Posts: 7,359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Perhaps I'm different in that I normally won't watch a movie or listen to music simply for the heavy bass. It must be a movie or music that I enjoy. And testing out a subwoofer for movies and music are two distinctly different animals.

I (I doubt I'm alone) find that testing out a subwoofer for music is best with music I like and know by rote, be it rock, new wave, classical, jazz or whatever. It's the type of music I will critically listen to and the artists I like have a wide range of sound and dynamics and is engineered extremely well. It doesn't matter to me if the music never goes much below 30 or 35 Hz, although there are some pieces I own that go down as low as 16 Hz. I have found that a good subwoofer will give substance, texture and detail to the deeper parts of music (a bass guitar, drums, etc.), without adding anything unnatural, unwanted or overwhelm the rest of the music. And yes, there may be some music that shows only a minor difference between the subwoofer being on or off, but if it isn't recorded or intended, then I feel it shouldn't be present. On some music, I've heard sounds I've never heard before and never knew existed. That's is where the surprise (or shock) comes in, and I've been surprised and disappointed in the way different subwoofers reproduced the music I like. That is precisely the reason I have two different brands of subwoofers -- one for movies and one for music.
So what did you choose for a music vs movie subs? How did you demo those subs, in the particular rooms in your house you listen to music or watch movies in? Most speakers do not adequately reproduce bass so a sub definitely can help fill out the sound spectrum. If a sub is overwhelming music or movies I'd say its running hot or some other issue...I think room and setup has a greater influence than whether a particular capable sub sounds "musical" or "movical".
sdl2282's Avatar sdl2282
12:30 PM Liked: 10
post #36 of 46
06-13-2014 | Posts: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Perhaps I'm different in that I normally won't watch a movie or listen to music simply for the heavy bass. It must be a movie or music that I enjoy. And testing out a subwoofer for movies and music are two distinctly different animals.

I (I doubt I'm alone) find that testing out a subwoofer for music is best with music I like and know by rote, be it rock, new wave, classical, jazz or whatever. It's the type of music I will critically listen to and the artists I like have a wide range of sound and dynamics and is engineered extremely well. It doesn't matter to me if the music never goes much below 30 or 35 Hz, although there are some pieces I own that go down as low as 16 Hz. I have found that a good subwoofer will give substance, texture and detail to the deeper parts of music (a bass guitar, drums, etc.), without adding anything unnatural, unwanted or overwhelm the rest of the music. And yes, there may be some music that shows only a minor difference between the subwoofer being on or off, but if it isn't recorded or intended, then I feel it shouldn't be present. On some music, I've heard sounds I've never heard before and never knew existed. That's is where the surprise (or shock) comes in, and I've been surprised and disappointed in the way different subwoofers reproduced the music I like. That is precisely the reason I have two different brands of subwoofers -- one for movies and one for music.
Excellent point, that a subwoofer should sound good for the type of music (or movies) that you are primarily using it for. I listen mostly to classical music, so the review of the Reaction Audio BPS 212 that focused on heavy metal did not give me a good idea of how the subwoofer will preform for what I will be using it for.
dsrussell's Avatar dsrussell
01:47 PM Liked: 504
post #37 of 46
06-13-2014 | Posts: 1,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
So what did you choose for a music vs movie subs? How did you demo those subs, in the particular rooms in your house you listen to music or watch movies in? Most speakers do not adequately reproduce bass so a sub definitely can help fill out the sound spectrum. If a sub is overwhelming music or movies I'd say its running hot or some other issue...I think room and setup has a greater influence than whether a particular capable sub sounds "musical" or "movical".
I auditioned several subwoofers (JL Audio F212, Paradigm Sub 1, Hsu ULS-15, SVS SB13-Ultra and the PSA XS30), both at home and at the dealers. One room is setup for music only, the other for movies. I chose the SB13-Ultra for music (an easy choice) and the XS30 for movies (a not so easy choice). The subwoofers I tested did well with most music, but not all. A subwoofer needs to disappear and not call attention to itself in music. It should feel totally natural, yet rich and deep. My main speakers (Magnepan 3.6s) will reach to 34 Hz. My best results came from running my Maggies full range and using the low pass filter on the sub at 40 Hz. I'm in the middle of testing the sound with different settings, but so far the above settings have worked out the best.

I hope this answers your questions.
dsrussell's Avatar dsrussell
01:58 PM Liked: 504
post #38 of 46
06-13-2014 | Posts: 1,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdl2282 View Post
Excellent point, that a subwoofer should sound good for the type of music (or movies) that you are primarily using it for. I listen mostly to classical music, so the review of the Reaction Audio BPS 212 that focused on heavy metal did not give me a good idea of how the subwoofer will preform for what I will be using it for.
It's difficult to get a good reading on a subwoofer's capability without auditioning it yourself. I understand that user reviews are important and can be very helpful, but if the user listens to completely different music, it may not be as helpful as another reviewer who listens to similar music. The only advice I can give is to audition as many as you can with the music of your choice, hopefully in your home. I know this can get expensive with return shipping (except for SVS).

I know little about Reaction Audio, but from everything I've read it appears to be a very capable subwoofer for a very reasonable amount of money. It has the same type of opposing-driver design as the XS30 and Seaton SubMersive. I wish you the best on your search.
sdl2282's Avatar sdl2282
01:04 AM Liked: 10
post #39 of 46
06-16-2014 | Posts: 25
Joined: Oct 2013
Recation Audio BPS 212 ordered!!
Thanks everyone for the input, I will try and do a write up of the sub when it comes.
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
04:43 AM Liked: 202
post #40 of 46
06-16-2014 | Posts: 3,890
Joined: May 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
So what did you choose for a music vs movie subs? How did you demo those subs, in the particular rooms in your house you listen to music or watch movies in? Most speakers do not adequately reproduce bass so a sub definitely can help fill out the sound spectrum. If a sub is overwhelming music or movies I'd say its running hot or some other issue...I think room and setup has a greater influence than whether a particular capable sub sounds "musical" or "movical".
I auditioned several subwoofers (JL Audio F212, Paradigm Sub 1, Hsu ULS-15, SVS SB13-Ultra and the PSA XS30), both at home and at the dealers. One room is setup for music only, the other for movies. I chose the SB13-Ultra for music (an easy choice) and the XS30 for movies (a not so easy choice). The subwoofers I tested did well with most music, but not all. A subwoofer needs to disappear and not call attention to itself in music. It should feel totally natural, yet rich and deep. My main speakers (Magnepan 3.6s) will reach to 34 Hz. My best results came from running my Maggies full range and using the low pass filter on the sub at 40 Hz. I'm in the middle of testing the sound with different settings, but so far the above settings have worked out the best.

I hope this answers your questions.
I think the SBU 13 for music a bit overkill for music probably use 10% of it's output.
dsrussell's Avatar dsrussell
12:23 PM Liked: 504
post #41 of 46
06-16-2014 | Posts: 1,773
Joined: Nov 2009
^^ Then it is a good thing that you didn't purchase the SB13 for your music . We're all different, fatbottom, and for me, it's hardly overkill. It simply got me to where I needed to go, and where other subs could not. And it must be an even better sub than I thought if it is only using 10 percent of its output capability for the music I play,.
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
12:37 PM Liked: 202
post #42 of 46
06-16-2014 | Posts: 3,890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
^^ Then it is a good thing that you didn't purchase the SB13 for your music . We're all different, fatbottom, and for me, it's hardly overkill. It simply got me to where I needed to go, and where other subs could not. And it must be an even better sub than I thought if it is only using 10 percent of its output capability for the music I play,.
I have a SBU 13, it's in the home theatre. Which is excellent for 2ch.
SB12+ in the Hi-Fi
dsrussell's Avatar dsrussell
12:47 PM Liked: 504
post #43 of 46
06-16-2014 | Posts: 1,773
Joined: Nov 2009
^^ Yes, I know, fatbottom. That's why your response about overkill had me scratching my head.
charmerci's Avatar charmerci
07:20 PM Liked: 96
post #44 of 46
06-16-2014 | Posts: 673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdl2282 View Post
Reaction Audio BPS 212 ordered!!
Thanks everyone for the input, I will try and do a write up of the sub when it comes.
Did you get one of the $329 212's? I haven't seen it posted on the Reaction site for a few days.

I think you'll like it plus you can really hear the low rumbles of a movie too!
sdl2282's Avatar sdl2282
07:28 PM Liked: 10
post #45 of 46
06-16-2014 | Posts: 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charmerci View Post
Did you get one of the $329 212's? I haven't seen it posted on the Reaction site for a few days.

I think you'll like it plus you can really hear the low rumbles of a movie too!
Yes, I bought one of the old model BPS 212's at the end of last week, it must have been one of the last ones they had.
dsrussell's Avatar dsrussell
09:09 PM Liked: 504
post #46 of 46
06-16-2014 | Posts: 1,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdl2282 View Post
Recation Audio BPS 212 ordered!!
Thanks everyone for the input, I will try and do a write up of the sub when it comes.
Congratulations! Everyone here will be very interested in how you like your new toy

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