Dual ChaseHT SS-18.1s to dual PSA XV15se's - worth it? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 280 Old 06-12-2014, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
Tom V said it all, he doubts if the XV would be an upgrade for 16 Hz compared to what the OP already has for subs. Really testing his subs limits should not be a problem since they can take a beating. I have ran mine with sine waves and testone starting at 10 Hz with the avr at 0 db without a problem. Most likely the signal chain will prevent any significant output below 10 Hz.
I would like to hear a further detailed explanation on this...the XV15se is up 6db on the SS18.1. He said the XS15se and SS18.1 would be similar in output, go to PSA site and compare the XS15se vs XV15se there is a 7db advantage to the XV15se in the 16-25hz bandwidth.

Can we see a graph of your subs taken at MV 0 from 10hz on up?
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post #92 of 280 Old 06-12-2014, 07:23 PM
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Would the UXL 18's or something else fit for a driver swap? Get a couple higher excursion drivers with proper parameters for subwoofer use and supply proper power with a better amp and you should be good to go.
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post #93 of 280 Old 06-12-2014, 07:25 PM
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You have to stop using ranges because it covers too many frequencies so you don't where the extra output occurs and not at the 16-17 hz wanted(?) by the op.
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post #94 of 280 Old 06-12-2014, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
You have to stop using ranges because it covers too many frequencies so you don't where the extra output occurs and not at the 16-17 hz wanted(?) by the op.
Lol it has been said numerous times The XV15se is up 5-6db @ 16hz and more around 20hz. The majority of the gain is around 20hz but the original XV15 is up 4db(60%) over the SS18 at 16hz. The XV15se is up around 1-1.5 db @ 16hz, 4-5db @ 20hz, 2.5-3db @ 25hz over the XV15. Average gain in the 16-25hz is 2.5-3db for the SE.

All that being said Luke Kamps suggestion would be killer...depending on enclosure volume a pair of UXL-18's would make for a killer replacement combined with more powaaah.
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post #95 of 280 Old 06-12-2014, 07:50 PM
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Nevermind, this is a circle.
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post #96 of 280 Old 06-12-2014, 08:01 PM
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I think the Rythmik FV15HP driver and amp kits are around $700, and should be much cheaper to ship. This should leave plenty of room to have cabinets made locally. I do also like Luke's suggestion of putting UXL-18 drivers into his existing enclosures along with an inuke 6000dsp perhaps.

The nice thing about these forums is that it does open up suggestions one may not have considered otherwise

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post #97 of 280 Old 06-12-2014, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post
Would the UXL 18's or something else fit for a driver swap? Get a couple higher excursion drivers with proper parameters for subwoofer use and supply proper power with a better amp and you should be good to go.
^^This. Great suggestion.

Laugsbach, you reading this? Did you every try the UXL in your chase cabs?


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post #98 of 280 Old 06-12-2014, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Nevermind, this is a circle.
Its not a circle...i understand that u think Eljay has not pushed his subs to their limits. The fact still remains that his subs are leaving something to be desired weather or not they are at their limits or else he would not of started this thread. He asked if the XV15se would have more headroom down to around the 16hz area and the answer is yes.

Eljays biggest complaint sounds like the lack of tactile response and that could be a placement issue. My subs are on carpet over concrete and I get amazing tactile response due the way they are placed.

Perhaps trying nearfield placement would help this?
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post #99 of 280 Old 06-12-2014, 08:32 PM
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How much for the ULX drivers?

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus 200 Five, Dayton 18 Ultimxa Dual Sub Cab(2), Dayton 18 Ultimax Large Vented Sub Cab (2), on Berhinger I Nuke DPS amps, Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

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post #100 of 280 Old 06-12-2014, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
How much for the ULX drivers?
http://www.istonline.ca/mach5_uxl_18.html


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post #101 of 280 Old 06-12-2014, 09:38 PM
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Eljah wants what he heard at his friends house, except his friend has a flat response to 7.9 hz. If that is flat at high SPLs this is the reason he felt more bass than his setup. I have owned and built subs flat to 25 hz, 20 hz, 16 hz, 13 hz, 9 hz, and then the multiple systems from sealed that went to 4-7 hz. All were awesome systems but there are obvious differences, extension and true flat extension. The idea of the UXL into the cab is an awesome suggestion and I think someone may have tried that with success, or something like it. I still would like to see if he is maxing out the subs he has at his levels and all he has to do is run a -20 MV sweep and then a -15 MV sweep and see if it compressed. If not then he could take it to his max MV -10 dBs. Just make sure the meter and mic at calibrated correctly.
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post #102 of 280 Old 06-12-2014, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
I still would like to see if he is maxing out the subs he has at his levels and all he has to do is run a -20 MV sweep and then a -15 MV sweep and see if it compressed. If not then he could take it to his max MV -10 dBs. Just make sure the meter and mic at calibrated correctly.
+1. This should definitely be the first step...simple and will tell the tale. For better accuracy, he should ensure that he can exceed 107 dB without compression, since running the subs 6 dB hot at -14 is -8 from reference. This does not include the additional output that could possibly be required due to bass redirected from other channels.

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post #103 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Eljah wants what he heard at his friends house, except his friend has a flat response to 7.9 hz. If that is flat at high SPLs this is the reason he felt more bass than his setup..
Maybe, but I think it is important to note that Eljay likely will not be producing single digits loud enough to matter in his room with his budget. But fear not, I went from being flat to 10 Hz to dropping off sharply at 15 Hz, and I feel as though I easily tripled the tactile effect I get on movies.

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post #104 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 01:22 AM
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Lol, I already said to contact Mach 5 and get a iNuke6000. The UXLs are not in stock but the IXLs look like they are. For either one, a optimal cabinet should be built. You will want to go ported for the best performance upgrade.

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post #105 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
What are you talking about? Data-bass measured the XV15 at 16hz and 34+%THD and the SS18.1 16hz at 19% THD. The FV15HP did 12.5 hz at 10.8%THD, what distortion, that is clean.


I would not look at sweeps overdriving subwoofers. 10% is my limit in my room, try it for yourself. Actually 12% with my IB.
Maybe whatever he pulled was from another chart? I mean this is what I see on data-bass, but it is also the only chart I can interpret.
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post #106 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 05:50 AM
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All of this discussion is moot because the OP has no idea what in-room frequency response he has. If he did, there would be graphs of it somewhere, instead of "I'll think about maybe measuring sometime" when he has the easiest measurement setup ever, one that takes 5 minutes and you're done.

Without measurements, everything is 100% trivial speculation, and I can almost guarantee that it's an equipment problem if there's no gain below 17Hz, because all rooms of that size have gain.


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post #107 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
Maybe whatever he pulled was from another chart? I mean this is what I see on data-bass, but it is also the only chart I can interpret.
When your at data-bass go to multicharts under measurements and scroll down. What I posted was THD component from long term compression sweeps. If it had no relevance then why would Ricci post it? Read his paragraph about 1 port on the FV15hp, he even says distortion "could be better" and recomends 2 port mode because 1 port is severely underported.

The FV15HP is a fantastic sub, I about pulled the trigger on a used pair several months ago, but it is not a end all be all of subwoofers. There is a compromise with 1 port mode(with any variable tuned sub for that matter) unless your room is a small concrete bunker and multiples are used. Hince why you are now using 2 port mode and is what I would stick with if I had a pair for maximum headroom.
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post #108 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post
All of this discussion is moot because the OP has no idea what in-room frequency response he has. If he did, there would be graphs of it somewhere, instead of "I'll think about maybe measuring sometime" when he has the easiest measurement setup ever, one that takes 5 minutes and you're done.

Without measurements, everything is 100% trivial speculation, and I can almost guarantee that it's an equipment problem if there's no gain below 17Hz, because all rooms of that size have gain.
He posted a graph of his response. His subs drop like a rock around 22hz. The key is were not sure if he is approaching the subs limits? Which seems kind of odd because the first thing I do after the subs have had break-in time is find thier limits or at least try too
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post #109 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 06:44 AM
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Basshead81,
If the FV15HP is only good for small concrete bunkers in one port mode than your subs and many others are made for closets LOL. Here is the comparison between the PSA and FV15HP.



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post #110 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube
All of this discussion is moot because the OP has no idea what in-room frequency response he has. If he did, there would be graphs of it somewhere ...
I posted my pre- and post-calibration graphs twice in this thread:
http://www.coolcrab.com/cal/cal.html

I'm going to try to run some sweeps this weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nube
I can almost guarantee that it's an equipment problem if there's no gain below 17Hz, because all rooms of that size have gain.
The OmniMic - which was calibrated by Dayton a few months ago - seems to work fine. I've gotten the same results on three different laptops. And the pre- and post-calibration results I've gotten recently are consistent (within minor variations) with results I've gotten in the past.

If there is an equipment problem, I don't know where to look for it.


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post #111 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
He posted a graph of his response. His subs drop like a rock around 22hz. The key is were not sure if he is approaching the subs limits? Which seems kind of odd because the first thing I do after the subs have had break-in time is find thier limits or at least try too
Nevermind, here they are.
Where? The one he posted here was not a linear sweep, it was WOTW which had lots of 20-30hz bass with that scene.

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post #112 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
When your at data-bass go to multicharts under measurements and scroll down. What I posted was THD component from long term compression sweeps. If it had no relevance then why would Ricci post it? Read his paragraph about 1 port on the FV15hp, he even says distortion "could be better" and recomends 2 port mode because 1 port is severely underported.

The FV15HP is a fantastic sub, I about pulled the trigger on a used pair several months ago, but it is not a end all be all of subwoofers. There is a compromise with 1 port mode(with any variable tuned sub for that matter) unless your room is a small concrete bunker and multiples are used. Hince why you are now using 2 port mode and is what I would stick with if I had a pair for maximum headroom.
I'll have to check out that chart. I'm actually back to 1 port mode again with a 3db boost <60hz. The FV15HP is definitely not "a end all be all of subwoofers", but it is pretty damn hard to beat for what it costs considering it can hang with the PB13-Ultra that costs $2000. We are talking about a significant difference there in price. I think you might be taking offense to multiple people coming in here and recommending the Rythmik when the thread is supposed to be geared towards PSA, specifically the XV15se. I am not one of those, but I do second the votes.

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post #113 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Basshead81,
If the FV15HP is only good for small concrete bunkers in one port mode than your subs and many others are made for closets LOL. Here is the comparison between the PSA and FV15HP.



What does that have to do with anything? You totally missed my point. I have the SE models anyway so that graph has no relevance. I said small concrete bunker for 1 port so the sub would not chuff or need to be driven to its limits where chuffing would occur. JT's room is massive he finds that 2 port works best. Nothing I said was a jab at the Rythmik sub, it is actuay my Fav of all commercial subs.

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post #114 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
Basshead81,
If the FV15HP is only good for small concrete bunkers in one port mode than your subs and many others are made for closets LOL. Here is the comparison between the PSA and FV15HP.



Any comparison like this should have the XV15 scaled properly or it isn't very accurate. The XV15 driver was facing 90 degree away from the mic during its test. See the fourth graph down to properly scale it(from about 30-100hz)

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=c...7#!prettyPhoto

Josh has mentioned this numerous times as well. In our discussions recently he has stated he will measure all subs with the active woof(s) facing the mic as that puts everything on a much more even playing field. For example he just measured the XS15se(we haven't seen the edited data set yet....that often takes him a few days/weekish to compile) and he did let us know he measured it on its side with the driver facing the mic.

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post #115 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 06:59 AM
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This is true my single FV15HP did struggle in my massive 5000cu ft room in single port mode. It's a living room and not sealed, so it's completely exposed to the rest of the house (also I was running it about 3-4db hot on average). I only experienced this in really intense scenes I think 3-4 off the top of my head. Now that I have duals I no longer experience any port compression.

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post #116 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post
I'll have to check out that chart. I'm actually back to 1 port mode again with a 3db boost <60hz. The FV15HP is definitely not "a end all be all of subwoofers", but it is pretty damn hard to beat for what it costs considering it can hang with the PB13-Ultra that costs $2000. We are talking about a significant difference there in price. I think you might be taking offense to multiple people coming in here and recommending the Rythmik when the thread is supposed to be geared towards PSA, specifically the XV15se. I am not one of those, but I do second the votes.
Yes but you also have duals which are splitting the load as I suggested a while back. I can see multiples working well in 1 port mode in your room. If I recall you were going to ditch a single FV15 and go back to dual LV12's because of port noises and what not with a single FV no? Like I said before if I had multiple FV15's one port would most likely not be a issue because each time you add a sub cone excursion is reduced 50% to achieve the output of a single sub. That means the port is flowing much less air and eliminates chuffing.

I am a fan of the FV15hp as you know, but yes it does get old watching threads getting hijacked when PSA is mentioned. Especially when the OP specifically stated that is the only option he is considering.
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post #117 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I am a fan of the FV15hp as you know, but yes it does get old watching threads getting hijacked when PSA is mentioned. Especially when the OP specifically stated that is the only option he is considering.
This is the reason I chose not to recommend the FV15HP.
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post #118 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
it does get old watching threads getting hijacked when PSA is mentioned. Especially when the OP specifically stated that is the only option he is considering.
The Op is considering the FV15hp after all. Honestly, I myself do not see any thread as 'hijacked' if the recommendation is valid for what the Op wants. I was once never considered the FV15hp due to my budget and thanks to those who win me over that I don't see the need for sub upgrade any more. This is what the forum supposes to be for- guide folks in the right direction.
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post #119 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Okay, so:
- 10Hz would be great, but it won't happen in my room without expensive sealed subs (for which I don't have the budget) or lots of less-costly sealed subs (for which I don't have the space).

- 17Hz would be fine IF there was substantially more output. (Down to 15Hz would be even better, but I won't push my luck.)

- I haven't actually looked at the total cost for dual XV15se's, but the subs themselves are $1,699/pr., which leaves me ~$800 to my budget cap. I could probably go a couple hundred over if I had to, so I have $1K of wiggle room to cover shipping, conversion, taxes and misc. fees.

- I'll start with some sweeps and measurements of the SS-18s. I can pull some test audio files off the Web, but how do I run the higher sweeps? Is it just a matter of cranking the MV past 0dB?



I'll be visiting PSA on our trek through the US(baseball road trip) later this month. If you have come to some sort of decision.... drop me a PM and I might be able to return with a couple of sub in my Svs if things aren't to complicated.....


I know the drive from Ottawa to my place is about 4hrs....or you could arrange fro them to be picked up from my postal code...either way....you'll save some cash.


Let me know....
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post #120 of 280 Old 06-13-2014, 07:57 AM
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Guys, I just go by data and when people run sweeps with proper equipment that helps a bunch too because we can see what one can get and use DB as a reference point. My drivers were never measured at DB but the FI Q sealed was which has a higher FS and 2 mm of x-max lower. I can only estimate what it will do but I know exactly what they do compared to my other systems in my room that were measured on DB.


Basshead81,
I was commenting on your statement about a small concrete bunker which is not true. All subs will have their limits and even if the new XVSE has the same output as the FV15HP the extension is still less so for me I like the extra extension. There are so many factors that go into buying subs and size and looks are a couple.


I just need Eljay to run new sweeps to show compression and have the graph go from 5-120hz. If he is compressing during his normal levels then he needs more subs or new subs. The new subs will be based on his graphs but from the look of what he showed he does have room gain and 10hz and under is possible for him. Just needs the right tool.
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