Dual ChaseHT SS-18.1s to dual PSA XV15se's - worth it? - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post
I'll be visiting PSA on our trek through the US(baseball road trip) later this month. If you have come to some sort of decision.... drop me a PM and I might be able to return with a couple of sub in my Svs if things aren't to complicated.....


I know the drive from Ottawa to my place is about 4hrs....or you could arrange fro them to be picked up from my postal code...either way....you'll save some cash.


Let me know....
Now that's a nice gesture.

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post #122 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 08:12 AM
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My post about small concrete bunker was in regards to 1 port mode. Dom gets great output down low with his dual FV15hp in 1port with no port noise. His room is smallish and concrete, very little loss. In a larger more open room with little room gain, the FV15hp might have some port chuff issues in 1 port, that is all I am pointing out(Remember Eljay said he would have to start with 1 due to budget). Yea you are right there many factors that go into buying subs, the XV15se met Eljays Size, Looks, Extension, and Budget criteria as he mentioned in post #4 ....moving on.

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post #123 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
^^This. Great suggestion.

Laugsbach, you reading this? Did you every try the UXL in your chase cabs?
I never tried it...decided to go with the flat packs from Erich and keep the Chase subs in a music only system.
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post #124 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 08:48 AM
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The graphs posted are too smoothed, don't go low enough, aren't at a high enough level, don't show signal chain rolloff and don't show different sub positions in-room. I think there's a lot more work to be done before a definitive declaration and recommendation can be made. I suspect that there is an equipment chain rolloff issue here.
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post #125 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 08:51 AM
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At 20hz eljay appears 6 dB down from 63 hz currently. His sub is 18.2 dB down gp, so appears to have 12.2 dB of room gain. The uxl is 12.3 dB down gp, so would be flat at 20hz by just changing drivers. Oh and you pick up 9.7 dB max burst output at 20 hz as well.

Last I saw the uxl's were popular so out of stock, but could still be ordered just take 2-3 months of wait time.
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post #126 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laugsbach View Post
I never tried it...decided to go with the flat packs from Erich and keep the Chase subs in a music only system.
Thanks for chiming in!

So you've had the chase and the UXL drivers out...do you think that the UXL would fit? My gut tells me that the UXL is deeper than the chase. Was the bracing in the chase close to the magnet do you remember?
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post #127 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
My gut tells me that the UXL is deeper than the chase. Was the bracing in the chase close to the magnet do you remember?
The UXL sits deeper than the Chase driver and the ID & OD would have to be measured as well...the box size will work but I not sure if it would be plug and play. I agree with the UXL as a great upgrade path for eljay...
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post #128 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I am not sure how you consider the FV15 to be a "looker". Its just a big black box that does not even have rounded corners.
I often hear folks mentioning about Rythmik big black box with no round corners and I am trying to find out which corners they are talking about. Mine has round edged corners. Not trying to make an argument rather want to know here.

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post #129 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I would like to hear a further detailed explanation on this...the XV15se is up 6db on the SS18.1. He said the XS15se and SS18.1 would be similar in output, go to PSA site and compare the XS15se vs XV15se there is a 7db advantage to the XV15se in the 16-25hz bandwidth.

Can we see a graph of your subs taken at MV 0 from 10hz on up?
I don't use REW so I can't upload graphs. I am old fashion and us Real Trap test tones . I take 8-10 measurement per range, 10-19 Hz, 20-29 Hz, ect. I do my sweeps at -10, -5 and at 0. These measurements are taken in a 5300 cu ft. room. Tow of the subs are 20 ft. from the MLP, anothe 15 ft. and the last one 10-12 ft. I have never backed the volume down due to taxing a sub with the volume at 0 for reference level sweeps.

I can supply Rat Shack corrected numbers at the MLP for the system at 10, 12.5, 16, 20 and 25 Hz. But, my system has four subs so it can't be related to eljay's system and room.

I would need to start a separate thread so, I would not be hi-jacking this thread, lol.

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post #130 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
I often hear folks mentioning about Rythmik big black box with no round corners and I am trying to find out which corners they are talking about. Mine has round edged corners. Not trying to make an argument rather want to know here.

My apologies, from the website pics I could not see the rounded edges on the top. Besides I never said the sub was ugly nor was that my point when that topic was brought up.

Have you taken any reference level sweeps of your FV15hp's that you could post?
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post #131 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post
I don't use REW so I can't upload graphs. I am old fashion and us Real Trap test tones . I take 8-10 measurement per range, 10-19 Hz, 20-29 Hz, ect. I do my sweeps at -10, -5 and at 0. These measurements are taken in a 5300 cu ft. room. Tow of the subs are 20 ft. from the MLP, anothe 15 ft. and the last one 10-12 ft. I have never back the volume down due to taxing a sub with the volume at 0 for reference level sweeps.

I can supply Rat Shack corrected numbers at the MLP for the system at 10, 12.5, 16, 20 and 25 Hz. But, my system has four subs so it can't be related to eljay's system and room.
So what output are you getting @ 0? We can subtract roughly 4-6db going from 4 subs down to 2.
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post #132 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
My apologies, from the website pics I could not see the rounded edges on the top. Besides I never said the sub was ugly nor was that my point when that topic was brought up.

Have you taken any reference level sweeps of your FV15hp's that you could post?
No need to apologies, BH. I wanted to do reference sweep but when I had my MV past -10db, REW errored out (dont remember exactly what it said)
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post #133 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 02:12 PM
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Ahh you need to calibrate the mic for a higher level sweep.
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post #134 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 02:28 PM
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^^ can I do that without an spl meter? I had a 15 yrs old radioshack meter that I can't seem to locate.
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post #135 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 02:31 PM
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You need a spl meter to do it.
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post #136 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 02:38 PM
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^^ then I need to locate my spl meter then. Thanks.
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post #137 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 05:34 PM
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You can't compare the same sub in different rooms, I had those subs as well and telling you what I got and show measurements would be meaningless to Eljay.
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post #138 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p
I'll be visiting PSA on our trek through the US(baseball road trip) later this month. If you have come to some sort of decision.... drop me a PM and I might be able to return with a couple of sub in my Svs if things aren't to complicated.....


I know the drive from Ottawa to my place is about 4hrs....or you could arrange fro them to be picked up from my postal code...either way....you'll save some cash.


Let me know....
Hey, Billy p. Thanks very much for the offer, but I drive a compact hatch so I'd have no way to bring the subs home. And if I did, I'd probably just have them shipped to a mailbox in Ogdensburg, NY, and pick them up there. But I do appreciate you making the offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nube
The graphs posted are too smoothed, don't go low enough, aren't at a high enough level, don't show signal chain rolloff and don't show different sub positions in-room. I think there's a lot more work to be done before a definitive declaration and recommendation can be made.
As I've said, I will run sweeps, take measurements and post graphs as soon as I find some time to do so. Although I'm not sure how less-smoothed graphs at louder levels will uncover room gain that, currently, I don't see. Anyway, I hope to have something either tomorrow or Sunday.

Re. different positions, I did move the subs around a few months ago and none of the combinations of positions I tried them in were any better than the ones they're currently in. Some weren't even as good as.

Thanks to everyone for all their help and input so far.
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post #139 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 08:11 PM
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You do have room gain, I was down 6-7 dBs at 10 hz and you are down 10 dBs. What does 5-10hz look like? When you run your sweeps do it at 100 dBs and make the graph unsmoothed, with a range of 5-120 hz. Then run a sweep at 105 dBs and see f the response stays the same only 5 dBs more.
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post #140 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater
When you run your sweeps do it at 100 dBs and make the graph unsmoothed, with a range of 5-120 hz. Then run a sweep at 105 dBs and see f the response stays the same only 5 dBs more.
OK, will do. But how do I run the sweeps that high? I ran the OmniMic calibration sweeps at 0dB on the MV, and I was getting 75dB - do I just keep going higher with the MV? Or is there some other way to boost the level of the sweeps?
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post #141 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 09:04 PM
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That's really weird. I get 75 dB sweeps with my MV around -28. At 0 MV I am getting over 100 dB sweeps.

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

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post #142 of 278 Old 06-13-2014, 09:29 PM
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If you are calibrated correctly you should get 105 dBs with a -10 dB on REW and the MV at 0 dBs. I used a MV of -10 and REW set to -10 which makes it -20 and I get 95 dBs. This assumes a flat calibration with each speaker and the LFE should be 10 dBs hotter. So when I ran my center it was 85 dBs with the same settings and the LFE channel was 95 dBs. Once you set it up correctly you turn up the MV to where you want to go. Of course just run the LFE channel if you don't want that high speaker level or turn your speaker amp off. You could also make sure you know what the gain setting on your sub amp is for reference calibration and then turn the gain up so just the subs get higher.
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post #143 of 278 Old 06-14-2014, 04:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting. When I run Audyssey, the program tells me to adjust the gain on my sub amps so that Audyssey is registering (and displaying in real time on my TV monitor) 75dB per sub.

If I raise the gain on the sub amps too high and then run Audyssey, it will simply push the levels down that much more in its final calibration.

So, do I simply ignore Audyssey's prompts and set the gain on the sub amps so that I'm hitting 105dB at -10 MV?
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post #144 of 278 Old 06-14-2014, 06:33 AM
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I am talking about using an outside source for measuring. You let audyssey do its thing but then you turn it off for a sub sweep unless you want the EQ applied prior to knowing the response.
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post #145 of 278 Old 06-14-2014, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I understand about turning Audyssey off, but since my OmniMic sweeps are maxing out at 75dB at 0dB on the MV, how do I get the sweeps louder? Do I just boost the gain on the sub amps until I'm seeing 105dB sweeps at 0dB?
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post #146 of 278 Old 06-14-2014, 07:00 AM
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First you need to verify that the Omni mic is calibrated correctly. If indeed MV 0 is only 75db of output then simply turn the volume up. The majority of AVR's use MV 0 as reference point but not all. If I turn my Yamaha 773 up to MV 0 with a standard calibration not running hot, my subs reach 115dbs.
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post #147 of 278 Old 06-14-2014, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
First you need to verify that the Omni mic is calibrated correctly. If indeed MV 0 is only 75db of output then simply turn the volume up. The majority of AVR's use MV 0 as reference point but not all. If I turn my Yamaha 773 up to MV 0 with a standard calibration not running hot, my subs reach 115dbs.
Something still does not make sense. If 0 MV gives a 75 dB reading....viewing at -14 would be whisper quiet. I get 75 dB at -28 or so and comfortably watch movies with family at -20. Of course, maybe my system is setup completely wrong?

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

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post #148 of 278 Old 06-14-2014, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
First you need to verify that the Omni mic is calibrated correctly. If indeed MV 0 is only 75db of output then simply turn the volume up. The majority of AVR's use MV 0 as reference point but not all. If I turn my Yamaha 773 up to MV 0 with a standard calibration not running hot, my subs reach 115dbs.
Something still does not make sense. If 0 MV gives a 75 dB reading....viewing at -14 would be whisper quiet. I get 75 dB at -28 or so and comfortably watch movies with family at -20. Of course, maybe my system is setup completely wrong?
Agree...That is why I suggest checking the mic with a spl meter. Never heard of a avr that only put out a 75db signal to the subs @ MV 0.

-20 puts me around 95db's for the subs.
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post #149 of 278 Old 06-14-2014, 08:29 AM
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I don't know if this will help eljay, but everytime I use omnimic on my new computer I have to manually set the mic. Control Panel-sound-manage audio devices-recording-double click omnimic-microphone properties-advanced tab- change default format to 2 channel, 24 bit, 96000 Hz (studio quality)
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post #150 of 278 Old 06-14-2014, 08:46 AM
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Yes all the guys are correct. Does Omnimic have a volume for it's signal sent? Oh wait, it plays the dvd disc that comes with. It has been a while since I owned that measuring gear. The mic seems to be reading too low. MV 0 if your processor is reference at 0 should give you a 115 dBs sweep from the LFE is the signal is 0 dBFS. Can you control the level through Omnimic? In REW you control the sine wave sweep level so you know exactly what you are supposed to be getting.
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