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post #1 of 23 Old 06-13-2014, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Down to three...

I've narrowed down my search, after MONTHS, to three subs. I'm looking for some feedback to lock one in! I deal with movies and games 95% of the time.

The three contenders are:
Rythmik LV12R
Outlaw LFM-1 EX
SVS PB12-NSD (outlet)

The room is 11x21x8 and is essentially closed. The sub would be paired with Infinity Primus 363/351/163 and a Yamaha 675.

What would you do? I was really leaning toward the Rythmik because of all the direct servo praise I'm hearing. I'm looking for the best performer out of the three. I know the outlaw is on sale but I don't want the $50 savings to sway the vote. If all three were the same price, which would you choose?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 23 Old 06-13-2014, 11:42 PM
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I think the Rythmik is the best balance between clean deep bass output and good mid upper bass. The PB12 probably excels the best in the lower octaves but will have significantly less mid upper bass output. The Outlaw will have the most mid upper bass headroom but will come up short compared to the other 2 in clean sub 20hz output.
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post #3 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
I think the Rythmik is the best balance between clean deep bass output and good mid upper bass. The PB12 probably excels the best in the lower octaves but will have significantly less mid upper bass output. The Outlaw will have the most mid upper bass headroom but will come up short compared to the other 2 in clean sub 20hz output.
The Outlaw will have a substantial output advantage over both the Rythmik and PB12 NSD over 30 Hz. It will also dig deeper than either, as it can be tuned lower. I wouldn't go so far as to say the PB12 excels over the Outlaw in lower octaves, as its advantage is within a band well under a single octave of sound, basically right around its tuning point. As for the Rythmik, it does not have as much output as the Outlaw, but it does have a certain articulation which I attribute to the servo system.

I would say if you can only have one sub, go for the Outlaw, it will go the furthest in pressurizing your room. However, if you can add another sub later, than start out with the Rythmik.
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post #4 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 06:05 AM
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The Outlaw will have a substantial output advantage over both the Rythmik and PB12 NSD over 30 Hz. It will also dig deeper than either, as it can be tuned lower. I wouldn't go so far as to say the PB12 excels over the Outlaw in lower octaves, as its advantage is within a band well under a single octave of sound, basically right around its tuning point. As for the Rythmik, it does not have as much output as the Outlaw, but it does have a certain articulation which I attribute to the servo system.

I would say if you can only have one sub, go for the Outlaw, it will go the furthest in pressurizing your room. However, if you can add another sub later, than start out with the Rythmik.
my room size is about the same and I have a psa xv15 and it hits really hard . you can feel it better than the ones you are looking at. check out power sound audio website great pricing and fantastic customer service
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post #5 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
The Outlaw will have a substantial output advantage over both the Rythmik and PB12 NSD over 30 Hz. It will also dig deeper than either, as it can be tuned lower. I wouldn't go so far as to say the PB12 excels over the Outlaw in lower octaves, as its advantage is within a band well under a single octave of sound, basically right around its tuning point. As for the Rythmik, it does not have as much output as the Outlaw, but it does have a certain articulation which I attribute to the servo system.

I would say if you can only have one sub, go for the Outlaw, it will go the furthest in pressurizing your room. However, if you can add another sub later, than start out with the Rythmik.
I said CLEAN output...the Outlaw does not do a better job in that category compared to the PB12 down low. I Never said the Rythmik had more output, I said it had the best balance of performance. Yes the Outlaw does extend deeper in 1 port but it is underported, the THD and Compression charts reveal this.
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post #6 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jnick1 View Post
I've narrowed down my search, after MONTHS, to three subs. I'm looking for some feedback to lock one in! I deal with movies and games 95% of the time.

The three contenders are:
Rythmik LV12R
Outlaw LFM-1 EX
SVS PB12-NSD (outlet)

The room is 11x21x8 and is essentially closed. The sub would be paired with Infinity Primus 363/351/163 and a Yamaha 675.

What would you do? I was really leaning toward the Rythmik because of all the direct servo praise I'm hearing. I'm looking for the best performer out of the three. I know the outlaw is on sale but I don't want the $50 savings to sway the vote. If all three were the same price, which would you choose?
My own order of preference would be:
  1. Rythmik LV12R
  2. SVS PB12-NSD (outlet)
  3. Outlaw LFM-1 EX

YMMV, but my priority is always towards precision first. Realistically though, I don't imagine you'd be disappointed with any of them.

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post #7 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 08:59 AM
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You should build one. They are selling cabs in the classifieds or get a kit from Dayton. I am not a DIY'er, but I am building my own for now on.

Here is the link Martysub Flatpacks/Veneer Flatpacks

There is also a LFM 1 Plus in the classifieds.

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post #8 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the opinions. This is so confusing, argh!

Unfortunately, I have so much stuff going on right now, I'd rather buy one than build. I just don't have the time to spend building one, unfortunately.

On one hand I wanna buy the outlaw, but only because it's on sale. I feel like since it's the "highest" level outlaw, it must be good! But at the same time, I hear so much praise from the LV12R that I'll always be wondering if I should have went with servo technology.

Choices, choices! I think I'm leaning to the Rythmik...

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post #9 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 08:09 PM
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Cannot go wrong with the Ryrhmik, I had a pair of the Outlaws and I was surprised that it hung with my old Psa Xv15 when i moved up. However the outlaw was not as clean. I would probably go for the Outlaw.

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post #10 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Cannot go wrong with the Ryrhmik, I had a pair of the Outlaws and I was surprised that it hung with my old Psa Xv15 when i moved up. However the outlaw was not as clean. I would probably go for the Outlaw.
What are you running now? Have you ever run the Rythmik?
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post #11 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 08:20 PM
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I've owned a pair of the lfm1-ex's, and currently own a pair of rythmik FV15HP's. For your movie listening preference, I'd go with the outlaws. They are awesome subs, that dig very deep at their price point. Great subs that likely have the most extension of the lot.
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post #12 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 08:23 PM
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Cannot go wrong with the Ryrhmik, I had a pair of the Outlaws and I was surprised that it hung with my old Psa Xv15 when i moved up. However the outlaw was not as clean. I would probably go for the Outlaw.
What are you running now? Have you ever run the Rythmik?
I have 2 Psa Triax's. Never ran the Rythmiks.

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post #13 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 08:30 PM
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I helped my boss buy and setup two Rythmik LV12R subs last week, and for the price I think they are a great sub. Personally I'm not completely sold on the servo technology though, didn't really seem to do anything special compared to some of the other great subs that I've heard.


I think Rythmik makes great subs, but I think the whole servo sub thing gets a little too over hyped.
I would gladly take one single sub that I made over dual LV12R's for that price.


***edit, sorry I just reread what I wrote and it kind of comes off passive aggressive....lol


I liked the Rythmik subs a LOT, but like I said the servo thing gets over hyped.

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post #14 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 08:59 PM
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I helped my boss buy and setup two Rythmik LV12R subs last week, and for the price I think they are a great sub. Personally I'm not completely sold on the servo technology though, didn't really seem to do anything special compared to some of the other great subs that I've heard.


I think Rythmik makes great subs, but I think the whole servo sub thing gets a little too over hyped.
I would gladly take one single sub that I made over dual LV12R's for that price.


***edit, sorry I just reread what I wrote and it kind of comes off passive aggressive....lol


I liked the Rythmik subs a LOT, but like I said the servo thing gets over hyped.
Too many variables to pinpoint the rythmik sound to just servo. Rythmiks use servo, but the reason why folks love rythmik is the combo of driver, amp, dsp, box and servo.
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post #15 of 23 Old 06-14-2014, 10:56 PM
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Rythmik makes great subs, but all that I'm saying is for the amount they get hyped for their "servo sound" I didn't think they sounded any better then my PSA XS30's that I had. The LV12R is a great sub and I'm sure many would be happy with it though, I personally just don't buy into the servo aspect of them.
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post #16 of 23 Old 06-15-2014, 09:38 AM
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Rythmik makes great subs........... I personally just don't buy into the servo aspect of them.
From Josh Ricci's review of the FV15HP:

"Second order distortion at 20, 25 and 32 Hz were so low in fact that with the normal 1/12th octave smoothing, the second harmonic is no where to be found in the spectrum curves. It appears that this is where the servo-feedback excels and Rythmik's claims of low distortion are validated."

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post #17 of 23 Old 06-15-2014, 09:54 AM
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Rythmik makes great subs, but all that I'm saying is for the amount they get hyped for their "servo sound" I didn't think they sounded any better then my PSA XS30's that I had. The LV12R is a great sub and I'm sure many would be happy with it though, I personally just don't buy into the servo aspect of them.
I didn't buy Rythmik's servo technology either until I A/B tested it against other well performing subs. I believe there is something there, and it does make a difference. You can't know how subs sound against each other unless you listen to them in a way that accounts for aural memory, unless there is something radically different. Aural memory (echoic memory) fades within four seconds.
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post #18 of 23 Old 06-15-2014, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Rythmik makes great subs........... I personally just don't buy into the servo aspect of them.
From Josh Ricci's review of the FV15HP:

"Second order distortion at 20, 25 and 32 Hz were so low in fact that with the normal 1/12th octave smoothing, the second harmonic is no where to be found in the spectrum curves. It appears that this is where the servo-feedback excels and Rythmik's claims of low distortion are validated."
Okay, but just look at the measurements on a sub like the SVS PB13-Ultra. It has even lower distortion then the FV15HP, yet doesn't have servo technology.


Like I said I've heard the LV12R in person for basically two full days with material that I'm very familiar with. great sub but I wouldn't say the servo makes it any better then any of the other good subs that I've heard. I'm not taking anything away from Rythmik subs, I think they sound good because of quality components used in them. I just don't buy into the servo hype, as there's plenty of other great sounding subs that don't have servo driver/amps in them.


I still think in their price ranges Rythmik subs offer some of the best value around, but for example I would still take two of the subs that I build over two FV15HP's. They would cost less and have well over double the output, but on the other hand if I didn't have a theater room the FV15HP would be a strong contending as a sub that I would own.
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post #19 of 23 Old 06-15-2014, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Rythmik makes great subs........... I personally just don't buy into the servo aspect of them.
From Josh Ricci's review of the FV15HP:

"Second order distortion at 20, 25 and 32 Hz were so low in fact that with the normal 1/12th octave smoothing, the second harmonic is no where to be found in the spectrum curves. It appears that this is where the servo-feedback excels and Rythmik's claims of low distortion are validated."
Okay, but just look at the measurements on a sub like the SVS PB13-Ultra. It has even lower distortion then the FV15HP, yet doesn't have servo technology.


Like I said I've heard the LV12R in person for basically two full days with material that I'm very familiar with. great sub but I wouldn't say the servo makes it any better then any of the other good subs that I've heard. I'm not taking anything away from Rythmik subs, I think they sound good because of quality components used in them. I just don't buy into the servo hype, as there's plenty of other great sounding subs that don't have servo driver/amps in them.


I still think in their price ranges Rythmik subs offer some of the best value around, but for example I would still take two of the subs that I build over two FV15HP's. They would cost less and have well over double the output, but on the other hand if I didn't have a theater room the FV15HP would be a strong contending as a sub that I would own.
Good points Jbrown. your subs are 3 times as big as a FV15HP. If you were limited to size I do not think you could build a sub that would significantly out perform the FV15HP down to 12hz for much less money. In a dedicated theatre going LLT makes perfect sense, but for the majority of us that have regular living room spaces, the XV15 or FV15HP is approaching the limits on size. Trust me I would love a dedicated theatre and some LLT's.

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post #20 of 23 Old 06-15-2014, 03:10 PM
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Trust me I loathe for a dedicated theatre and some LLT's.
You would hate to have a dedicated theater, or long to have one?
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post #21 of 23 Old 06-16-2014, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I FINALLY did it. LV12R ordered. Thank you to all for your input. This was the last piece needed (other than cabling) to get the sound system setup. I'm stoked!! I'll definitely post up my impressions (and my wife's!) when it's all calibrated and broken in!

Thank you, again, all.
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post #22 of 23 Old 06-16-2014, 07:39 AM
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Well, I FINALLY did it. LV12R ordered. Thank you to all for your input. This was the last piece needed (other than cabling) to get the sound system setup. I'm stoked!! I'll definitely post up my impressions (and my wife's!) when it's all calibrated and broken in!

Thank you, again, all.
Congratulations! The subwoofer in my eyes is probably the most important component to a home theater system.

Receiver - Denon 4311CI
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
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post #23 of 23 Old 06-16-2014, 08:56 AM
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Trust me I loathe for a dedicated theatre and some LLT's.
You would hate to have a dedicated theater, or long to have one?
Lol I am not sure how I came up with that...stupid auto correct.

Now that I think about it, that kind of makes sense in a sarcastic way.
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