Seaton SubM v. funk 18.1 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 06-14-2014, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Seaton SubM v. funk 18.1

So I think I'm entering the home stretch here in my sub hunt, and think these two are my top contenders. The 1000w submersive and the funk 18.1

There's not a lot of measurements on either sub. Both companies have excellent reputations.

For a large room (30x20x8) and mostly movies, which you you pick and why?

Thanks!

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post #2 of 25 Old 06-14-2014, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
So I think I'm entering the home stretch here in my sub hunt, and think these two are my top contenders. The 1000w submersive and the funk 18.1

There's not a lot of measurements on either sub. Both companies have excellent reputations.

For a large room (30x20x8) and mostly movies, which you you pick and why?

Thanks!
I have a pair of Seaton F2's. Ridiculous! Cant see how it could be anymore or any better. Both in tone and output.

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #3 of 25 Old 06-14-2014, 05:45 PM
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I think the size of the room is asking for a ported sub. I would go with the Funk.
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post #4 of 25 Old 06-14-2014, 08:19 PM
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I agree with Shady, for that size of room and movie use go ported.


What about dual Rythmik FV15HP's? Close in price to the other two subs you are considering.

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post #5 of 25 Old 06-14-2014, 10:53 PM
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What about dual Rythmik FV15HP's? Close in price to the other two subs you are considering.
+1....A far superior option in every way.

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post #6 of 25 Old 06-15-2014, 06:01 AM
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Where are you located? US or Canada?

 

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post #7 of 25 Old 06-15-2014, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Pbc - I'm in the US

Bear and jbrown - unfortunately duals are out if the question (WAF). Placement options are limited as well - the front left corner (where the sub is in my sig ) I'd the only spot.

Re: the ported v. Sealed debate - I understand small room/room gain with sealed subs. Is there more to it?

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post #8 of 25 Old 06-15-2014, 07:04 AM
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Did Nathan send you any measurements on the ported 18? Would be interesting to compare it to the FV15HP. Obviously has an 18" driver vs 15". The 18 has a slightly larger box (not as much larger as I would have expected).

Not sure I understand the spec which says flat from 16-30hz,40-150hz customizable? Seems to have some presets available depending on the room. Would be great to see the GP measurements to understand the curves of the varying dsp options.

Obvisously if you are limited to a single sub and the price difference is not an issue, you'd want the sub that provides the most output for that large room.
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post #9 of 25 Old 06-15-2014, 08:31 AM
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Pbc - I'm in the US

Bear and jbrown - unfortunately duals are out if the question (WAF). Placement options are limited as well - the front left corner (where the sub is in my sig ) I'd the only spot.

Re: the ported v. Sealed debate - I understand small room/room gain with sealed subs. Is there more to it?
If you want to stick with one sub, be sure to never measure your room. Doing so will result in realizing there is no magical law preventing a second sub from being placed if you wanted to. I was in the exact same situation as you..one sub was it, no way I would/could ever get a second one...didn't need it, didn't want it, would not pass WAF etc etc. Then I measured my room.

Large rooms typically lend themselves better to ported subs as they will have flat output down to port tune regardless of room size. Sealed subs start rolling off earlier and require room gain for flat output down to the pay dirt region of 15-20 Hz. You should get room gain starting at 18Hz with a 30 foot dimension. Lots of power and excursion can help overcome this with sealed subs.

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post #10 of 25 Old 06-15-2014, 09:08 AM
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If you are serious about the Funk 18.1 I would recommend you taking a look at upgrading the driver to the TSAD18v1 driver and maybe even consider upgrading the amp. That would give the 18.1 a lot more output then it already has, actually that would make it one hell of a ported 18" sub.

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post #11 of 25 Old 06-15-2014, 09:15 AM
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The 18.1 cabinet is likely not a good size for the TSAD18v1, my guess is it would be pretty hindered in that cabinet. No doubt Nathan could make the right ported cabinet for the TSAD18v1, but it would be pretty big and expensive.
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post #12 of 25 Old 06-15-2014, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
Pbc - I'm in the US

Bear and jbrown - unfortunately duals are out if the question (WAF). Placement options are limited as well - the front left corner (where the sub is in my sig ) I'd the only spot.

Re: the ported v. Sealed debate - I understand small room/room gain with sealed subs. Is there more to it?
If you want to stick with one sub, be sure to never measure your room. Doing so will result in realizing there is no magical law preventing a second sub from being placed if you wanted to. I was in the exact same situation as you..one sub was it, no way I would/could ever get a second one...didn't need it, didn't want it, would not pass WAF etc etc. Then I measured my room.

Large rooms typically lend themselves better to ported subs as they will have flat output down to port tune regardless of room size. Sealed subs start rolling off earlier and require room gain for flat output down to the pay dirt region of 15-20 Hz. You should get room gain starting at 18Hz with a 30 foot dimension. Lots of power and excursion can help overcome this with sealed subs.
The SubM has an F3 of 19 Hz in DSP Pgm1, and F3 of 16 Hz in DSP Pgm2. If his room gain starts at 18 Hz, the SubM is right in that wheelhouse. Since it is sealed, it will actually work with the room gain to give more output below F3 than a ported sub would with it's steeper roll-off below port tune.

The following graph is of the original SubM with the 1,000 watt amp and only DSP Pgm1. It is a 1 meter, ground plane FR graph and is not intended as a maximum output graph:
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File Type: jpg SubMersive_1m_response.jpg (131.3 KB, 29 views)

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post #13 of 25 Old 06-15-2014, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
The 18.1 cabinet is likely not a good size for the TSAD18v1, my guess is it would be pretty hindered in that cabinet. No doubt Nathan could make the right ported cabinet for the TSAD18v1, but it would be pretty big and expensive.

The TSAD18v1 is a great driver that would work well in pretty much any cabinet design, from sealed to small or large ported cabinets. I would have bought two of them for myself from Nathan but at $850 they were just a little pricey for me when I was able to get the UXL-18's for $365ea.


I think Nathan will be bringing at least one of his subs to the GTG that I'm hosting next month so hopefully I'll be able to hear the TSAD18v1 driver in person though.

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post #14 of 25 Old 06-15-2014, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks guys --

pbc: I asked nathan re: measurements. JUst sent the message late yesterdya, so havent heard back yet

Jbrown/shady: i'd love the TSAD driver/better amp, but I think that would stretch my budget too much

bear: yeah I know re: measureing. Though in my case, WAF really would flip a lid re: 2nd sub

craig: thanks for posting the graph. I'm, unfortunately, not going to be able to measure my room anytime soon (just not enough time these days). With your experience with the SubM, how do you think it would fare in a large room? (roughly 5000 cu feet)

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post #15 of 25 Old 06-15-2014, 12:35 PM
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thanks guys --

pbc: I asked nathan re: measurements. JUst sent the message late yesterdya, so havent heard back yet

Jbrown/shady: i'd love the TSAD driver/better amp, but I think that would stretch my budget too much

bear: yeah I know re: measureing. Though in my case, WAF really would flip a lid re: 2nd sub

craig: thanks for posting the graph. I'm, unfortunately, not going to be able to measure my room anytime soon (just not enough time these days). With your experience with the SubM, how do you think it would fare in a large room? (roughly 5000 cu feet)
I will say that when I talked with Nathan he told me that in his opinion the 18.1 offered the best value/performance of all the subs that they offer. Even in it's standard form the 18.1 is an excellent sub.

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post #16 of 25 Old 06-15-2014, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by madhuski View Post
craig: thanks for posting the graph. I'm, unfortunately, not going to be able to measure my room anytime soon (just not enough time these days). With your experience with the SubM, how do you think it would fare in a large room? (roughly 5000 cu feet)
A while back, I had a guy come over to hear the SubM's. Like you, he could only get one, so we turned off two of my SubM's as well as Audyssey, and just listened to one with no EQ. I was very pleasantly surprised about how well it did all by itself. Here is the post the fellow made after he visited: Seaton Sound SubMersive1 I haven't heard much from him since his visit, so I don't know if he ever bough a SbM, but his account is still active, so you could PM him and ask. If a single SubM works well in his 6K cubic foot room, it should work just fine in your room.

Craig

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post #17 of 25 Old 06-16-2014, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Is there a max burst curve available for the 1000w subM??

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post #18 of 25 Old 06-18-2014, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
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A while back, I had a guy come over to hear the SubM's. Like you, he could only get one, so we turned off two of my SubM's as well as Audyssey, and just listened to one with no EQ. I was very pleasantly surprised about how well it did all by itself. Here is the post the fellow made after he visited: Seaton Sound SubMersive1 I haven't heard much from him since his visit, so I don't know if he ever bough a SbM, but his account is still active, so you could PM him and ask. If a single SubM works well in his 6K cubic foot room, it should work just fine in your room.

Craig
I agree with this. Back on Mark's site, there were quite a few guys(who unfortunately don't post much any more) who bought the original 1000 watt version of the sub and had them in rooms ranging from 4500cf to 6000cf. Each one of those people were very satisfied and did not feel that they were missing anything.
If you want to read some thoughts of people who had(have) singles on Mark's site, here are some links
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=2731583
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/po...83290&trail=20
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=2939784
http://www.seaton-sound-forum.com/post?id=2983290

Some are from the same guy but it's still good to read I think. Most of threads have charts as well. I have never heard the Funk so I can't comment on that. I also know that while no max SPL has been posted for the SubMersive, it can get very loud and stay clean and clear. I just think you owe it to your self to consider it. I love my HP in my 1000cf room .

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post #19 of 25 Old 06-18-2014, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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If I don't listen loudly and won't push the subs (let's say -15 on the avr), would thete be science behind choosing one over the other? Or basically, am I at a point where either one would do the job and I just gotta make a decesion?

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post #20 of 25 Old 06-18-2014, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Well - enough time has been spent reading reviews, perusing avs etc.

I think both subs are excellent and I'd be hard pressed to tell a difference b/w the two. In the end mark offered me a deal on a b-stock I couldn't refuse, so a black oak submersive is on the way.

I want to mention though how much of a pleasure Nate (funk) is to deal with. I've been emailing a lot of designers over the past few weeks/months, and nate's timely responses, tone, and thought put into his replies were outstanding . He REALLY went out of his way to find something that would got my needs and budget

Now the waiting game

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post #21 of 25 Old 06-18-2014, 05:27 PM
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Congrats on the new sub!


On another note I'll actually get to meet Nathan next month as he's coming out to a GTG that I'm hosting and bringing some of their new speakers and I think a sub too.

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post #22 of 25 Old 06-18-2014, 05:31 PM
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Madhuski, Between the subs you were choosing from, there were no wrong choices, all looked terrific. I think you will be very pleased.

Also, jbrown, that is cool that you are getting Funk to your gtg. It will be a blast no doubt, and it is shaping up to be a great gtg.
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post #23 of 25 Old 06-18-2014, 05:36 PM
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Madhuski, Between the subs you were choosing from, there were no wrong choices, all looked terrific. I think you will be very pleased.

Also, jbrown, that is cool that you are getting Funk to your gtg. It will be a blast no doubt, and it is shaping up to be a great gtg.
Yeah I thought that was pretty cool that Nathan agreed to make the hour and a half trek to my place for the GTG and bring some speakers. As it stands now we'll have three sets of DIY speakers (Tempest,1099's & Tuxedocivic's latest TWW setup) and I think four sets of manufactured speakers (U215's, JTR 228HT's, Funk 6.1P's & 8.2P's) It should be a really fun event, well at least I hope it is

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post #24 of 25 Old 06-20-2014, 11:00 AM
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Well - enough time has been spent reading reviews, perusing avs etc.

I think both subs are excellent and I'd be hard pressed to tell a difference b/w the two. In the end mark offered me a deal on a b-stock I couldn't refuse, so a black oak submersive is on the way.

I want to mention though how much of a pleasure Nate (funk) is to deal with. I've been emailing a lot of designers over the past few weeks/months, and nate's timely responses, tone, and thought put into his replies were outstanding . He REALLY went out of his way to find something that would got my needs and budget

Now the waiting game
Congrats on the SubMersive. I think you will be very happy with it. For 7 years it has never let me down. Looking forward to maybe hearing some of your thoughts.

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post #25 of 25 Old 06-21-2014, 05:25 AM
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i think so,I have never heard the Funk so I can't comment on that. I also know that while no max SPL has been posted for the SubMersive, it can get very loud and stay clean and clear.thanks
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