2x subwoofer to cover 2000 cubic feets - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Red face 2x subwoofer to cover 2000 cubic feets

Hi everyone,


I want your opinion for the best sub (bang for bucks) to fill this room size 2000 cubic feets. I read a lot about HT sub and a lot of people says 15 inch driver is better than 12", you feel deeper bass etc. Is it true for my room size? Now the rythmik f15 make me a smile and I Wonder if its gonna be to much to have two of those for my kind of room (I know its never to much but for best bang for bucks). My budget is above 800$ each sub.


Thanks for you help!
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post #2 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdpower View Post
Hi everyone,


I want your opinion for the best sub (bang for bucks) to fill this room size 2000 cubic feets. I read a lot about HT sub and a lot of people says 15 inch driver is better than 12", you feel deeper bass etc. Is it true for my room size? Now the rythmik f15 make me a smile and I Wonder if its gonna be to much to have two of those for my kind of room (I know its never to much but for best bang for bucks). My budget is above 800$ each sub.


Thanks for you help!

If you can get your order together right now, the Outlaw LMF-1EX is on sale for $599 delivered. A pair of them might preferable to a single 15...

The EX is norrmally ~$740 delivered.
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post #3 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 12:39 PM
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^ +1. Dual LFM-1 EXs will offer tremendous performance in a room that size, and at $599/ea., shipped, they're an excellent value.
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post #4 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 12:39 PM
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That isn't a big room, dual SB2000 should be plenty.

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post #5 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 01:05 PM
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I went with orbit shifter for my room of roughly the same size.
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post #6 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 01:18 PM
 
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dual subs is always better than one, no matter the room size. It will smooth the frequency response and give you more dynamic range.
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post #7 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I know the room is not that big but I try to match my current speaker setup. I have rf-82, rc-62, rs-52 all powered by onkyo tx-nr-818. My main idea was not only one f15 it was 2x f15 lol. Maybe I was a bit overkill for my room size but I want to be sure to match my speakers set. I will check the model you refer me and the biggest thing is I live in canada... But its possible for me to takeout at ups facility in states (vermont or NY not far from Canada border). Or I can just wait the shippement at my house if its not to expensive.


Thanks!
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post #8 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post
dual subs is always better than one, no matter the room size. It will smooth the frequency response and give you more dynamic range.
Quite a broad statement.

Do you mean dual SBU13 is better than one?
Or dual SB2000 is better than one SBU13?

Also do you have ability to determine where the best place for the second sub is? Measuring equipment? And adusting phase to match, and so it doesn't cancel out the first sub? Can it be placed in the best position, or does room layout mean you cannot place it there?

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post #9 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post
dual subs is always better than one, no matter the room size. It will smooth the frequency response and give you more dynamic range.
I never said to get just one. Get four and call it a day 😄 all he said about his budget is that it is greater than $800 per, with no ceiling.

Btw, I don't totally agree about dual is always better no matter room size. If you are in a closet, for example, then I think a single 12" could cover the fq response and have more than enough dynamics.
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post #10 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 01:44 PM
 
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I am only talking about two of the SAME sub, versus one of the SAME sub. Not two of any random sub is better than any random single sub.

I mean dual SB2000 is better than a single SB2000, no matter the room size.

I do have measuring equipment to determine the best placement. Most people don't have many spots to put a sub so you just put them wherever you can. You probably won't have phase issues.

I wasn't replying directly to you DotJun. I suppose if you are in a closet two might not work out, as you probably can't fit in a closet with two subs
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post #11 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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wow DotJun ... your orbit shifter is way to much expensive for one and I want to put 2 same sub so is way to high for my budget!
For now with what youve refer me I have a choice like (2x SB2000, 2x LFM-1 EXs , 2x hsu VTF 15", 2x Rythmik F15).
Maybe I will be able to grab a ELEMENTAL DESIGN A7s-650 for a prety low price if not I will refer between these four brand!
But if you said to me I will have the same result due to my room seize with 2x SB2000 or 2x LFM-1 EXs vs 2x hsu VTF 15"or 2x Rythmik F15 for sure I will not spend much money for nothing. I will put this extra money somewhere else in my HT Room.


Thanks!
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post #12 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdpower View Post
Hi everyone,

I want your opinion for the best sub (bang for bucks) to fill this room size 2000 cubic feets. I read a lot about HT sub and a lot of people says 15 inch driver is better than 12", you feel deeper bass etc. Is it true for my room size? Now the rythmik f15 make me a smile and I Wonder if its gonna be to much to have two of those for my kind of room (I know its never to much but for best bang for bucks). My budget is above 800$ each sub.


Thanks for you help!
Is this sub mainly for HT?
Just wondering why you are looking at a sealed F15?

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post #13 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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95% for movie, 5% for game and tv.
The f15 is not good?
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post #14 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 04:01 PM
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Dual PSA XS15se for 1499.00 shipped.
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post #15 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdpower View Post
95% for movie, 5% for game and tv.
The f15 is not good?
The F15 is very good, and is generally well received on here. But like spyboy and elJay said, save for the DIY route, dual Outlaw LFM-1 EX's are going to be very hard to beat for $1200 shipped to your door.
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post #16 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 04:11 PM
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If I were in your shoes, dual subs would be a great way to start things out. Here are the subs I think would be great for you:

1) Your choice, dual F15's
2) Dual LFM1-EX as mentioned...likely to have higher output 16-30 for movies, but larger.
3) Dual PB2000
4) Dual XV15se
5) Dual XS15se

Deciding between ported or sealed will narrow your choices....ported subs will typically have higher LFE output for movies but in your room size, the two dual sealed options above should also be plenty unless you want full reference capability. How loud do you want to listen with uncompressed output down to 16 Hz or so?

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post #17 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Is it diy kit or its only the drivers? Or maybe its a complete sub im a bit loss on this outlaws lfm1
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post #18 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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For now i have prety bad sub... Maybe i never ear a song below 25hz lol
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post #19 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 05:30 PM
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For subs with that budget, I say DIY; FTW....lol

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post #20 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I dont want to pay more then 2000$ all include. But ive seen a couple option insted of diy. Its because they miss me a couple tools and xp to do diy....
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post #21 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdpower View Post
I dont want to pay more then 2000$ all include. But ive seen a couple option insted of diy. Its because they miss me a couple tools and xp to do diy....

With the DIY flat packs from the diysoundgroup.com as long as you can use would glue and wood claps you're good to go. And that's basic stuff you usually learn in grade 8 wood shop class...lol


For about $1200 plus finishing (paint) you could have two large ported 18" cabinets and a inuke 6000DSP to power them with. Extremely easy to do, I personally think if guys had more faith in themselves you'd see even more DIY builds. DIY isn't for everyone, but if you're willing to take a leap of faith there's some big performance/value payoffs with it.

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post #22 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
With the DIY flat packs from the diysoundgroup.com as long as you can use would glue and wood claps you're good to go. And that's basic stuff you usually learn in grade 8 wood shop class...lol


For about $1200 plus finishing (paint) you could have two large ported 18" cabinets and a inuke 6000DSP to power them with. Extremely easy to do, I personally think if guys had more faith in themselves you'd see even more DIY builds. DIY isn't for everyone, but if you're willing to take a leap of faith there's some big performance/value payoffs with it.
I think you are partly right JBrown. However, I think part of the reason DIY is not even more common is due to the huge cabs that are the main basis as to why DIY does so well. Even the smallest ported sub often duplicated...the MartyCube, is MUCH bigger than most ID cabs. My sub is only 17" wide....thats a BIG difference to 24" of the MartyCube. Even the Rythmik FV15, as one of the largest ID subs, is only 18" wide..again a huge difference in size for many dual purpose living rooms.

Of course, you can go sealed, but even the "tiny" flat packs are like 22" wide...its just too darn big on all sides than a lot of people want to use. If you keep the enclosure to the size of say the FV15Hp, you probably cant outperform it by much if any. A bit cheaper maybe, but you lose the convenience and expertly applied filters and limiters, and there is some value to that...just read Ricci's review of the UXL18. I know it takes a lot of power to blow that driver up, but the fact is that he did while pushing enough power to get the kind of numbers he got. The FV15HP bests the UXL tested in a similar size cab at some frequencies with a smaller driver, less power, and a safe build with no chance of blowing it up.

If you can fit large sealed cabs, or refrigerator sized ported cabs, DIY has huge bang for the buck.

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post #23 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
With the DIY flat packs from the diysoundgroup.com as long as you can use would glue and wood claps you're good to go. And that's basic stuff you usually learn in grade 8 wood shop class...lol


For about $1200 plus finishing (paint) you could have two large ported 18" cabinets and a inuke 6000DSP to power them with. Extremely easy to do, I personally think if guys had more faith in themselves you'd see even more DIY builds. DIY isn't for everyone, but if you're willing to take a leap of faith there's some big performance/value payoffs with it.

The only issue I see for many is not everybody can stuff huge subs in their rooms. Sure if you have the room and time diy is best approach.

For example take the UXL-18 put it in a sealed cab to keep the size down, and purchase a Inuke 3000dsp. You would have around 1100.00 into building this sub after its finished.

Take the FV15HP in 1 port for a little over 1400.00 shipped.

The FV15 would be very close in output from 12-30hz, and would be faiy even above that point unless you spend big money on a powersoft amp the Ricci uses which tends to boost the 40hz+ output 4-5db.

So yea the DIY option is still cheaper by 300.00 bucks but that is not a huge difference once you factor in time and tuning.

Of course if you have the room to build some LLT's or Full Marty's then things change considerably.
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post #24 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 07:02 PM
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.......just read Ricci's review of the UXL18. I know it takes a lot of power to blow that driver up, but the fact is that he did while pushing enough power to get the kind of numbers he got. The FV15HP bests the UXL tested in a similar size cab at some frequencies with a smaller driver, less power, and a safe build with no chance of blowing it up.

.
Ricci admits to accidentally sending 8000-10,000 watts to UXL driver before it became toast............not too many drivers could survive such an event.

As far as comparing FV15HP to UXL in same cab.........for what purpose? 15" and 18" drivers are two different animals especially when comparing displacement along with excursion. Given enough watts to both fore mentioned drivers so excursion parameters are approached at safe limits, FV15HP couldn't touch UXL driver.......physics dictates that.
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post #25 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

For example take the UXL-18 put it in a sealed cab to keep the size down, and purchase a Inuke 3000dsp. You would have around 1100.00 into building this sub after its finished.

Take the FV15HP in 1 port for a little over 1400.00 shipped.

The FV15 would be very close in output from 12-30hz, and would be faiy even above that point unless you spend big money on a powersoft amp the Ricci uses which tends to boost the 40hz+ output 4-5db.

So yea the DIY option is still cheaper by 300.00 bucks but that is not a huge difference once you factor in time and tuning.

.
Using an iNuke 3000 on sealed UXL driver is like driving a Corvette with a VW engine. Power the UXL with Peavey ipr2 7500, the FV15 falls 6-7 db's behind...........IMHO, not a far fight or comparison.
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post #26 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 07:32 PM
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Ricci admits to accidentally sending 8000-10,000 watts to UXL driver before it became toast............not too many drivers could survive such an event.

As far as comparing FV15HP to UXL in same cab.........for what purpose? 15" and 18" drivers are two different animals especially when comparing displacement along with excursion. Given enough watts to both fore mentioned drivers so excursion parameters are approached at safe limits, FV15HP couldn't touch UXL driver.......physics dictates that.
The point is, the advantage DIY has is mainly giant cabs that are cheap to build and don't have to be shipped. With a small cab like the FV15HP(which outperforms the UXL18 in a similar size sealed cab under 30 Hz and only 600 watts), there is not going to be much of an output advantage, except at higher frequencies with ridiculous power. DIY holds a big advantage......huge cabs.

Keeping things reasonably sized enough for most peoples dual purpose rooms, there is only so much output you are going to get out of small cabs...so it might be a bit cheaper, but for a lot more output you have to go a lot bigger in size.

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post #27 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 07:42 PM
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The point is, the advantage DIY has is mainly giant cabs that are cheap to build and don't have to be shipped. With a small cab like the FV15HP(which outperforms the UXL18 in a similar size sealed cab under 30 Hz and only 600 watts), there is not going to be much of an output advantage, except at higher frequencies with ridiculous power. DIY holds a big advantage......huge cabs.

Keeping things reasonably sized enough for most peoples dual purpose rooms, there is only so much output you are going to get out of small cabs...so it might be a bit cheaper, but for a lot more output you have to go a lot bigger in size.
Do you really think there is some magic happening with manufactured subs though? You can get the exact same performance as pretty much any ID sub on the market building the same size cabinet, comparable driver and same power. The rest of it is measuring the output with a program like REW and knowing where to boost or lower the output at that given frequency. Its really not as hard as must think it is.


To do this would cost quite a bit less then buying from them, guys usually only go bigger because they want to exceed manufactured subs performance. Like I said before I know DIY isn't for everyone, but I can guarantee that all of you guys that are regular posters could easily build a sub that would perform just as well as the ones you've bought if you really wanted too.


You could very easily buy a TC Sounds LMS-R 15" and build the exact same size cabinet as a FV15HP and use a inuke 3000DSP and get pretty much the exact same amount of output with some proper EQing.

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post #28 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 07:49 PM
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The only issue I see for many is not everybody can stuff huge subs in their rooms. Sure if you have the room and time diy is best approach.

For example take the UXL-18 put it in a sealed cab to keep the size down, and purchase a Inuke 3000dsp. You would have around 1100.00 into building this sub after its finished.

Take the FV15HP in 1 port for a little over 1400.00 shipped.

The FV15 would be very close in output from 12-30hz, and would be faiy even above that point unless you spend big money on a powersoft amp the Ricci uses which tends to boost the 40hz+ output 4-5db.

So yea the DIY option is still cheaper by 300.00 bucks but that is not a huge difference once you factor in time and tuning.

Of course if you have the room to build some LLT's or Full Marty's then things change considerably.

That driver & amp would only cost you $800, I don't think you're going to spend $300 to build and finish the sub. I spent less then $300 to build and finish two cabinets.

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post #29 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 08:04 PM
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Do you really think there is some magic happening with manufactured subs though? You can get the exact same performance as pretty much any ID sub on the market building the same size cabinet, comparable driver and same power. The rest of it is measuring the output with a program like REW and knowing where to boost or lower the output at that given frequency. Its really not as hard as must think it is.


To do this would cost quite a bit less then buying from them, guys usually only go bigger because they want to exceed manufactured subs performance. Like I said before I know DIY isn't for everyone, but I can guarantee that all of you guys that are regular posters could easily build a sub that would perform just as well as the ones you've bought if you really wanted too.


You could very easily buy a TC Sounds LMS-R 15" and build the exact same size cabinet as a FV15HP and use a inuke 3000DSP and get pretty much the exact same amount of output with some proper EQing.
Not from the perspective that I am any kind of DIY expert, but I agree 100% with what you state here Jbrown. Just that it is often implied that anyone can cheaply and easily blow any ID sub out of the water performance wise, and I don't think this is entirely true becuase it is usually accomplished with giant cabs. Cheaper, yes, but much better performance is likely going to require a bigger cab. The real kicker is that going to a much larger cab to increase performance doesn't really cost much more if any with DIY. For me, to stick with a small cab like the FV15HP, I probably would not get higher output, and the cost savings would not be quite enough for me to justify. A few hundred bucks is almost worth the expert engineering/LPF/HPF/limters etc that went into the design. Now if I had room for bigger cabs, no question. Or even if I had more free time/desire to build something. I work 70 hours a week and make plenty to buy any sub I want, and don't have a dedicated theater. So the size restriction has kept me away from DIY for the time being.

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bear123 is offline  
post #30 of 47 Old 06-16-2014, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
The point is, the advantage DIY has is mainly giant cabs that are cheap to build and don't have to be shipped. With a small cab like the FV15HP(which outperforms the UXL18 in a similar size sealed cab under 30 Hz and only 600 watts), there is not going to be much of an output advantage, except at higher frequencies with ridiculous power. DIY holds a big advantage......huge cabs.

Keeping things reasonably sized enough for most peoples dual purpose rooms, there is only so much output you are going to get out of small cabs...so it might be a bit cheaper, but for a lot more output you have to go a lot bigger in size.
Seriously, you are asking for the impossible! First, 18" driver can not physically fit in a 15" enclosure.........

Second, why would you only feed a driver 600 watts which is capable of handling close to 2000-3000 watts? Logic makes no sense.........

If premise is the UXL will never fit in a small enclosure like any 15" driver........sure, I agree with you. But I absolutely disagree with FV15HP competing with a single UXL sealed given appropriate watts so max excursion is approached. Given UXL driver models exactly the same as mighty TC Sounds LMS-Ultra between 2000-2500 watts.......I just don't see the comparison.
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