Weak Bass? - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-19-2014, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
special43543's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Weak Bass?

I just moved into a new house with a rather large living room with an open floor plan. The living room is opens into the kitchen with a bar area and also is open to the dining room. The measurements I took for the living room are only for the sitting area within the living room. That area is 19 feet wide, 17 feet long, and 10 feet high which is just over 3200 cubic feet excluding areas outside the sitting area. The outside sitting area would probably be another 2000 or 3000 cubic feet.

Based off my budget and the recommendations from the kind people on these forums, I purchased the Rythmik LV12R. I just hooked up the sub with my speakers and so far I am extremely unhappy with the bass. I have a Denon E300 and did the microphone calibration. I have yet to do the "subwoofer crawl", and was hoping for maybe some advice or some place I should look for better bass.

I'm looking for the heavy bass sound. Like when I fire a gun in a video game or listen to rap music. Is this possible with the subwoofer and my listening area?

Edit: I had a database error and now there is a double post :\
special43543 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-19-2014, 03:47 PM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,717
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 643 Post(s)
Liked: 924
If you want more bass volume, there is a little knob on the back of the sub that you can turn to get it.
FMW is offline  
Old 06-19-2014, 03:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3,528
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by special43543 View Post
I just moved into a new house with a rather large living room with an open floor plan. The living room is opens into the kitchen with a bar area and also is open to the dining room. The measurements I took for the living room are only for the sitting area within the living room. That area is 19 feet wide, 17 feet long, and 10 feet high which is just over 3200 cubic feet excluding areas outside the sitting area. The outside sitting area would probably be another 2000 or 3000 cubic feet.

Based off my budget and the recommendations from the kind people on these forums, I purchased the Rythmik LV12R. I just hooked up the sub with my speakers and so far I am extremely unhappy with the bass. I have a Denon E300 and did the microphone calibration. I have yet to do the "subwoofer crawl", and was hoping for maybe some advice or some place I should look for better bass.

I'm looking for the heavy bass sound. Like when I fire a gun in a video game or listen to rap music. Is this possible with the subwoofer and my listening area?

Edit: I had a database error and now there is a double post :\
Audessey usually sets the bass on the low side. What are the settings on your AVR? In that size area it should be set pretty close to zero and the gain on your sub should need to be pretty high as well.

That said, the LVR12 is not going to give you chest slamming bass in 6000^ft.

Find the best location for the sub then rerun audessey then up the bass from there.

Then return your LVR12 for a pair of FV15HPs.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is offline  
Old 06-19-2014, 04:15 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
craig john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 10,429
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Liked: 392
The only way you'll get anything close to what you're looking for in that sized space with that sub... is with a nearfield placement. Can you place it directly behind your seating?

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System


Last edited by craig john; 06-19-2014 at 04:22 PM.
craig john is offline  
Old 06-19-2014, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
special43543's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The gain was set to -1.0 so I changed it to 0 and it's a little better, but still doesn't fill the room very well. I could try placing the sub to the left or right of the sitting area. Right now I have it just to the right of the TV. I turned the volume all the way up on the sub and it's merely okay. I'm

Unfortunately I cannot afford two of these or larger subs.
special43543 is offline  
Old 06-19-2014, 04:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sputter1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by special43543 View Post
The gain was set to -1.0 so I changed it to 0 and it's a little better, but still doesn't fill the room very well. I could try placing the sub to the left or right of the sitting area. Right now I have it just to the right of the TV. I turned the volume all the way up on the sub and it's merely okay. I'm

Unfortunately I cannot afford two of these or larger subs.
What Craig said.
sputter1 is offline  
Old 06-19-2014, 05:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 6,713
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 1830
Turn it up to +3...if still not enough move it closer. If that does not do it then you are SOL. Time to go bigger.
basshead81 is offline  
Old 06-19-2014, 05:39 PM
Member
 
kjfalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Place it in a corner and you should get about a 6db increase. Possibly moving it around May provide better bass. One way to determine a good location is to place the sub at the listening position, then walk around the room to see where the bass is more prominent. Once found, put the sub in that location and you should get good results.

The bass will have peaks and troughs because of standing waves. Your current listening position may be in a trough, or suck-out region. Just changing the phase may also change the response, making a trough a peak.
kjfalls is offline  
Old 06-19-2014, 05:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 2,897
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 881
Quote:
Originally Posted by special43543 View Post
Right now I have it just to the right of the TV. I turned the volume all the way up on the sub and it's merely okay.
Even though its a big room, you should get some decent bass. It is either poor placement, or you need to adjust the trim a bit higher. Most people tend to go about 6 dB higher than what Audysey sets it. First step should be sub crawl to find a good spot.
bear123 is offline  
Old 06-19-2014, 06:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3,528
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Even though its a big room, you should get some decent bass. It is either poor placement, or you need to adjust the trim a bit higher. Most people tend to go about 6 dB higher than what Audysey sets it. First step should be sub crawl to find a good spot.
He's looking for "heavy" bass. I'm taking that to mean substantial, feel it in your body type bass. I'm thinking above 20hz since he mentions gun shots in games and rap music.

I just don't think that sub can provide that in 6000^ft. I know it wouldn't provide me with enough of it in my 1600^ft room.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is offline  
Old 06-19-2014, 09:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 6,713
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 1830
Good point but I think he needs to at least try getting the sub to its limits before making that decision. Not everybody definition of heavy bass is the same.
basshead81 is offline  
Old 06-19-2014, 10:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: East side of NW Cascades
Posts: 3,499
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked: 480
You may have to go DIY given your roomsize and budget.

One thing is for certain, your current sub just won't cut it.

I'd recommend one of these:
http://www.parts-express.com/behring...-dsp--248-6706
$280

and for starters one of these, with the option of buying a second one in the future (if you still need more bass after the first one).
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...4-ohm--295-472
$250

http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=57
http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60
or for $162, you can get an pre-order SI-18 if you can make do until July, that would save you $90 per.

For the box, I'd recommend you do a Martysub ported box:
Martysub Flatpacks/Veneer Flatpacks

Who ever recommended a 12inch sub for a 6000cuft room should be fired! LOL

Usually it takes 2 or 4 18's for a room that size and depending on how much of a basshead you are.
I have over 15 subs in my 3000cuft room and it's still not enough for me. LOL (yeah, I'm a basshead).
You can't beat the laws of physics, louder bass = more subs and beefier subs, which unfortunately, are also usually more expensive...
BassThatHz is online now  
Old 06-20-2014, 06:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked: 216
I second the vote for corner placement. Also, set your gain to 12 o'clock make sure the dampening is set to low (this is recommended for HT use) so the bass is more full body. Run Audyssey and whatever it sets your sub trim to boost that 4-6db. Put on some 5 star bass movies and come back to share your thoughts. Like everyone else is saying that room is pretty damn big for a single LV12R. I had dual LV12R's in a room over 5000 cu ft completely open and they performed well. Make sure you keep the mic positions in tight quarters around the MLP. See below illustration for reference.

Click image for larger version

Name:	howtomulteq300.png
Views:	28
Size:	19.6 KB
ID:	127977
JT78681 is online now  
Old 06-20-2014, 07:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked: 216
^^^^^ I used to put my mics in all the different seats in my living room and then I switched to following the above illustration. I can't believe the difference it made to the impact my subs produced. Give it a shot!
JT78681 is online now  
Old 06-20-2014, 07:50 AM
Exclusively Servo
 
Rythmik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin
Posts: 1,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by special43543 View Post
The gain was set to -1.0 so I changed it to 0 and it's a little better, but still doesn't fill the room very well. I could try placing the sub to the left or right of the sitting area. Right now I have it just to the right of the TV. I turned the volume all the way up on the sub and it's merely okay. I'm

Unfortunately I cannot afford two of these or larger subs.

If you don't see the LED blinking on the back of the amplifier, you can go to the AVR menu and increase the sub level by another 3db. I have an LV12R in my family (20x20x18ceiling, plus breakfast area, kitchen,dining room and upstairs den) and it provides plenty bass. I do place the sub in the corner. It does take a day for LV12R to "open up". I have a couple of LV12R customers called me in the first hour they heard the bass and were concerned that they need to turn up the volume. I always tell them just wait a day, playing all the movies and music and the bass will improve.
Rythmik is offline  
Old 06-20-2014, 10:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 3,584
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1212 Post(s)
Liked: 611
Nobody has mentioned the possibility that the OP is sitting in a null.

Try walking around the room with some bass heavy music playing and see if the bass is substantially stronger in other areas of the room. If so, you may be sitting in a null and the only solutions are 1) Move your sub, 2) Move your listening position, or 3) More subs.

The first thing you should do though is the sub crawl to find the best position in the room for your sub. If you still have weak bass at the MLP after the sub crawl, you most likely are sitting in a null.
Alan P is online now  
Old 06-20-2014, 10:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
KidHorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Derwood, Maryland
Posts: 3,016
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 262 Post(s)
Liked: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjfalls View Post
Place it in a corner and you should get about a 6db increase. Possibly moving it around May provide better bass. One way to determine a good location is to place the sub at the listening position, then walk around the room to see where the bass is more prominent. Once found, put the sub in that location and you should get good results.

The bass will have peaks and troughs because of standing waves. Your current listening position may be in a trough, or suck-out region. Just changing the phase may also change the response, making a trough a peak.

Adjusting the phase won't help when there's a single sub. Best to leave it at 0 and let the AVR set the distance.
KidHorn is offline  
Old 06-20-2014, 06:09 PM
Member
 
nb67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Argyle, TX
Posts: 193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
You can't beat the laws of physics, louder bass = more subs and beefier subs, which unfortunately, are also usually more expensive...
+1
My room sounds similar to yours and I was also unhappy with the bass. Didn't matter where I put my sub, how I equalized it, near field, corner loaded ...nada. This was with a Subm. So I started throwing more subs at my issue, and started getting the results I wanted. Now I have 2 subms + 2 diy dual opposed 18". Fair to say though, I was influenced by the bass gang in Fontana, once you've heard 4 lms ultras in a fairly small, well treated room, they are very hard to beat.

nb67 is online now  
Old 06-20-2014, 06:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
derrickdj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,704
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 160
Bottom line, he needs bigger and more subs.
derrickdj1 is offline  
Old 06-20-2014, 06:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Reefdvr27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SoJer (South Jersey)
Posts: 3,375
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 943 Post(s)
Liked: 605
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
If you want more bass volume, there is a little knob on the back of the sub that you can turn to get it.
You should not use the "knob" to adjust bass. If you properly set your sub using odyssey, you should use the AVR to add or decrease bass.

As the other said above, that sub is never going to pressurize a large room like yours. I don't think adding another would be a great gain either.

Last edited by Reefdvr27; 06-20-2014 at 06:36 PM.
Reefdvr27 is offline  
Old 06-20-2014, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
special43543's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks everyone for your responses. I did notice that the hallway parallel to the sub gets excellent bass. The room leads to the laundry room which also has nice sounding bass. So, as several of your have mentioned, I might be a null. I will do the sub crawl and see if that will improve the sound.

Also, I did turn the volume on the sub up as well as on my receiver. Are you saying that it is bad for the sub to turn the volume knob up and use only the AVR?
special43543 is offline  
Old 06-20-2014, 09:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
derrickdj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,704
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 160
Using the avr to regulate the sub will help keep everything calibrated correctly.
derrickdj1 is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off