NEED new sub(s) $800-1500 for HT slam - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 53 Old 06-23-2014, 05:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
KidHorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Derwood, Maryland
Posts: 2,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 190
I think all the advice you've been given is good. I have a cathedral ceiling in my main theater and it really messes with things. I strongly advise getting multiple subs. My room is bigger (24'x16') and is open to the rest of the house in 2 spots. I didn't get decent bass until I had 4 subs.
KidHorn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 53 Old 06-29-2014, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
B0dyK0unt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok. It's Body still out here trying to make my decision... Taking time as you can see. Right now, I still think it is b/w the dual xv15se or the single fv15hp. I know tom mentioned the idea of dual xs15se to save money and space and possibly extending lower, but I am not sure if I am in my "forever home" and want to make sure the sub(s) I get can satisfy a slightly larger room if I ever move.

My latest question... With the fv15hp being tuned lower, and probably falling off freq past 80hz on the high end pretty fast, then do I risk not having as much chest slam and tactile impact? I read somewhere that the most impactful frequencies are b/w 50-100 hz... If the fv15hp rolls off pretty fast after 80, do I need to be concerned about that?

Still here in limbo ("it's me... Not you"... Haha). You're feedback is appreciated!!!
B0dyK0unt is offline  
post #33 of 53 Old 06-29-2014, 03:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 1,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 419
Since you said you're handy, I really, REALLY think you should go with a DIY sub. The Martysub comes in flat packs (where all you do is assemble it yourself), or with the box prebuilt for you. Two of those and an amp + MiniDSP and you absolutely destroy any of the other options mentioned, and probably destroy double the amount of subs mentioned in both output and total distortion, and you come in at or under budget.

Check 'em out over in the DIY forum.
its phillip likes this.
nube is offline  
post #34 of 53 Old 06-29-2014, 04:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,496
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 490
Quote:
Originally Posted by B0dyK0unt View Post
Ok. It's Body still out here trying to make my decision... Taking time as you can see. Right now, I still think it is b/w the dual xv15se or the single fv15hp. I know tom mentioned the idea of dual xs15se to save money and space and possibly extending lower, but I am not sure if I am in my "forever home" and want to make sure the sub(s) I get can satisfy a slightly larger room if I ever move.

My latest question... With the fv15hp being tuned lower, and probably falling off freq past 80hz on the high end pretty fast, then do I risk not having as much chest slam and tactile impact? I read somewhere that the most impactful frequencies are b/w 50-100 hz... If the fv15hp rolls off pretty fast after 80, do I need to be concerned about that?

Still here in limbo ("it's me... Not you"... Haha). You're feedback is appreciated!!!
The FV15HP extends above 80 Hz when used with LFE input, which is how it is most commonly connected. It will extend to 200 Hz. Besides that, you will likely be crossing your sub over at 80 Hz, so extension above 80 Hz is not that much of an assist.

I agree with nube though, a DIY Martysub will kill Rythmik or PSA with respect to bang for the buck. That is the route I would go and would have went had I known about that avenue years ago.
shadyJ is offline  
post #35 of 53 Old 06-29-2014, 05:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 2,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked: 663
You have three good options to choose from. Dual XV15's, a single FV15HP, and the Martysub(s) are all good options. DIY will give you more output for sure if you can accommodate the refrigerator sized cabs. If you need the cab to be as small as the ID subs you likely won't get more output but might be a bit cheaper DIY.

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

bear123 is offline  
post #36 of 53 Old 06-29-2014, 07:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
You have three good options to choose from. Dual XV15's, a single FV15HP, and the Martysub(s) are all good options. DIY will give you more output for sure if you can accommodate the refrigerator sized cabs. If you need the cab to be as small as the ID subs you likely won't get more output but might be a bit cheaper DIY.
+1
basshead81 is offline  
post #37 of 53 Old 06-29-2014, 08:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 1,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 419
Disagree entirely. The microcube is 3.5cuft, much smaller than the FV15HP. And it costs about $400 including amp.

Martycube is 5cuft and hardly any more expensive.

Last edited by nube; 06-29-2014 at 08:51 PM.
nube is offline  
post #38 of 53 Old 06-30-2014, 05:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 2,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post
Disagree entirely. The microcube is 3.5cuft, much smaller than the FV15HP. And it costs about $400 including amp.

Martycube is 5cuft and hardly any more expensive.
FV15HP is tuned at 12 Hz in one port and 18 Hz in two port, 6 cu. ft external volume. Martycube is 8 cu. ft external volume. That is A LOT bigger than the Rythmik, which is larger than the XV15. And the Rythmik has a much lower tune.

Microcube's tune is no where near as low as the FV15HP.

I do not disagree at all they DIY offers the most bang for the buck. But much of the performance benefit comes from using high excursion, high quality drivers with plenty of power, which in turn require large cabs to be effective. And building large cabs is dirt cheap DIY, and with no shipping cost built in. Overall a huge cost savings compared to buying a large ID sub with shipping and profit built in.

So again, the advantage of DIY when it comes to output is primarily huge cabs that can be built cheaply and don't have to be shipped. Same size cab you won't get much higher performance, if any from what I have seen....just the laws of physics. FV15 hits 114 dB at 20 Hz scaled to 1m like WinISD models....not easily beat. And modeling is not always the same as actual testing. So again, you can match the performance of the really good ID subs with DIY, and maybe a bit cheaper, but you have to go big to get a lot more performance. The Martycube is considered tiny by DIY standards and it is huge compared to most ID subs.

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP


Last edited by bear123; 06-30-2014 at 05:49 AM.
bear123 is offline  
post #39 of 53 Old 06-30-2014, 06:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 1,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
FV15HP is tuned at 12 Hz in one port and 18 Hz in two port, 6 cu. ft external volume. Martycube is 8 cu. ft external volume. That is A LOT bigger than the Rythmik, which is larger than the XV15. And the Rythmik has a much lower tune.

Microcube's tune is no where near as low as the FV15HP.

I do not disagree at all they DIY offers the most bang for the buck. But much of the performance benefit comes from using high excursion, high quality drivers with plenty of power, which in turn require large cabs to be effective. And building large cabs is dirt cheap DIY, and with no shipping cost built in. Overall a huge cost savings compared to buying a large ID sub with shipping and profit built in.

So again, the advantage of DIY when it comes to output is primarily huge cabs that can be built cheaply and don't have to be shipped. Same size cab you won't get much higher performance, if any from what I have seen....just the laws of physics. FV15 hits 114 dB at 20 Hz scaled to 1m like WinISD models....not easily beat. And modeling is not always the same as actual testing. So again, you can match the performance of the really good ID subs with DIY, and maybe a bit cheaper, but you have to go big to get a lot more performance. The Martycube is considered tiny by DIY standards and it is huge compared to most ID subs.
I quoted internal volume. And, comparing external volume, the Martycube is exactly 6" bigger in one dimension than the FV15HP, and 0.5" smaller in one dimension. Hardly any difference, not the exaggerated difference you pointed out.

Tuning difference isn't justified in this case for 3.5x the price. The OP himself said what his needs were, and both suggestions exceed his needs, but this one does so MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper, and fits his capabilities.

Edited out the unnecessary stuff I wrote.

Last edited by nube; 06-30-2014 at 06:40 AM.
nube is offline  
post #40 of 53 Old 06-30-2014, 06:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 2,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

As far as I know, you're not speaking from experience with any other subs or on any DIY projects of your own, just theoretical commentary based on what you've read. Or am I mistaken?
Going off of actual data-bass testing rather than theoretical numbers. Just saying, with small cabs like the FV15 or XV15, which effectively limits you to 15" drivers for ported cabs, DIY wont perform much higher if any. 2 cubic feet additional external volume is a big difference for dual purpose living rooms, regardless of what the internal dimensions come out to. External is what makes the footprint. Again, I agree DIY is cheaper. My point is mainly that you have to go much larger to get the big performance gains..thats just the way it is. I didn't create the rules.

I know the difference does not seem like much for a dedicated theater room, which I agree it is not. But going from a 17 or 18" wide dimension out to 24" is quite a large difference for most outside of dedicated rooms. In fact I would have strongly considered the Martycube with UXL-18's but 2' on all sides is just too big for my living room, and no dedicated theater at this point

I think anyone that can accommodate the size, should consider the 18" DIY builds.
nube likes this.

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP


Last edited by bear123; 06-30-2014 at 07:11 AM.
bear123 is offline  
post #41 of 53 Old 06-30-2014, 07:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 1,340
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 419
I think anybody purchasing a sub should mock up the external dims of their proposed solutions to see just how big they really are, especially those new to "real" subs. Most people will be unpleasantly surprised by how big a 2' x 2' x 2' box is in their room. The same goes for speakers. They don't call 'em monkey coffins for nothing.

P.S. Thanks for not taking the bait on my unnecessary and personal comments. Sorry about that!
nube is offline  
post #42 of 53 Old 06-30-2014, 07:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post
Disagree entirely. The microcube is 3.5cuft, much smaller than the FV15HP. And it costs about $400 including amp.

Martycube is 5cuft and hardly any more expensive.
Actually the micro cube is around 3.75 and its internal volume is less due to the slot port and bracing. Figure the external volume and it is still as big or slightly bigger then the FV15HP. Also from what I have seen the winisd software is normally scaled to 1m. So the XV15se and FV15HP would have the edge in output(113-114db @ 20hz vs 110db w/ Micro) when you add 6db to the 2m rms numbers. Everything I read that Bear posted looks to be spot on other then the FV15HP 1 port being tuned to 12hz...it's tuning point is 14hz 1 port 18hz 2 port.

The bottom line is DIY is not going to necessarily give you more performance when comparing the same size driver, cab, and power. The big edge DIY has is price vs performance. The money you sink in to a pair of FV15HP's could be used to build a powerhouse of a sub system being you have the room to do so...no argument there.
basshead81 is offline  
post #43 of 53 Old 06-30-2014, 10:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bear123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 2,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
......the FV15HP 1 port being tuned to 12hz...it's tuning point is 14hz 1 port 18hz 2 port.
)
Tuning point is definitely 12 and 18. I double checked just to make sure.
basshead81 likes this.

AVR:       Yamaha RXV-375

Display:  Panasonic  TH-50PC77U

LCR:       Hsu HB1.2  HC1.2

Sub:       (2) PSA XV15se

Blu Ray:  Sony BDP-S5100

Apple TV

Harmony 650

miniDSP

bear123 is offline  
post #44 of 53 Old 06-30-2014, 10:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Tuning point is definitely 12 and 18. I double checked just to make sure.
Bear,

It's tuning in single port mode is 14hz, but it has meaningful output down to 12hz.

Receiver - Denon 1713
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
JT78681 is offline  
post #45 of 53 Old 06-30-2014, 11:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
enricoclaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked: 167
The FV15HP is 12Hz tuned in one port mode and 18Hz in two ports mode.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP_specs.html

Best Regards,

Enrico Castagnetti
Rythmik Audio

 

My Multimedia Room Gallery

enricoclaudio is offline  
post #46 of 53 Old 06-30-2014, 11:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 137
It's a little confusing because it says 14hz in a few places 12hz in a few. Oh well! Thanks for the clarification Enrico and I stand corrected Bear.

Receiver - Denon 1713
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
JT78681 is offline  
post #47 of 53 Old 06-30-2014, 01:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 5,862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Tuning point is definitely 12 and 18. I double checked just to make sure.
Indeed it is...thanks for the correction. I checked the site and it can be kind of confusing but none the less it states 12/18hz tuning points.
basshead81 is offline  
post #48 of 53 Old 07-03-2014, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
B0dyK0unt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, I finally made a decision... and it was so tough amongst so many viable options... and everyone was making good cases, and very helpful. Just ordered a single FV15HP. I really do appreciate everyone piping in to help me in my decision. I figured that if I cant get the one FV15HP to sound smooth across the entire couch (MLP) in my current 2400 ft^3 room, then I can start saving (more like dreaming) of a second down the road.... just dont tell my wife that is some of my logic. And, if I move into a larger theater room eventually, then this option sounds fairly scalable. But, I really hope I can get decent response/coverage with the single. We shall see. (as for DIY, I did consider, but ultimately decided I may not enjoy the journey to make it even though you can get the same or more output for less).

I guess the next step is to find out what setup is generally the best starting point when initially setting it up (1 port or 2, LFE vs Line In, Rumble on/off, etc).... before it arrives. Maybe a post or two in the Rythmik owners thread will point me in the right direction.

Everyone who posted and offered feedback and opinions, My Thanks!
B0dyK0unt is offline  
post #49 of 53 Old 07-03-2014, 11:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 893
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 305
^^ Congratulations on your decision. It's a great subwoofer, but then again, you were looking at a few great subwoofers. Let us all know how you like it once you've set it up.
dsrussell is online now  
post #50 of 53 Old 07-03-2014, 11:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked: 137
Congrats on your purchase. It's not always easy coming to a decision especially when there are so many solid options. Ask for help in the Rythmik thread and we can walk you through it.

Receiver - Denon 1713
Speakers - Infinity P363's, PC351, P153's
Subs - Rythmik FV15HP's
JT78681 is offline  
post #51 of 53 Old 07-03-2014, 01:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 72
B0dy,
Everyone's preference is different but when I had my single fv15hp in my slightly larger than your room (~2500ft^3), I ran it in single port 14/hi damping with LFE input (my surrounds needs to be crossovered at 120hz per Audyssey) and it sounded stunningly awesome. Most folk would be very happy with just one fv15hp in your room size, just not here for AVS'er. Much like real estate, sub location is very important. Using sub crawl method to find the best possible location for your sub, then run avr auto calibration. Set it to AVR/12 14hz low damping, sub volume about 15 ticks from min before running receiver auto calibration using sub line in only if all of your speakers can play lower than 100hz; otherwise use LFE input. After auto cal is completed , start out by changing all speakers to small with 80hz crossover or higher, you can then switch to any other Rythmik settings and bump avr sub channel up 3-6db and enjoy/experiment with the differences in settings. Let us know how it works out for you.
tvuong is offline  
post #52 of 53 Old 07-03-2014, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
B0dyK0unt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks dsrussell, JT and tvuong!!

tvong, I wont keep asking setup questions in this thread, but I do have one clarification question for you based on your post. You suggested using the line in on the sub if my mains/center can handle below 100hz (which they can... per Aud XT32, at least down to about 40hz... I know my surrounds go to about 85 hz). I was under the impression that the sub falls off on the high end pretty quick above 80 hz using the line in input, but goes up to approx 200hz using the LFE input. I guess I am wondering why anyone would want to use the line in over the LFE input? ... I dont see any benefits on the surface (but I am first to admit, I am no expert, and have not researched). If I am crossing over around 80 (I am guessing 60-80 will be where I'll end up after I get the sub in place), am I not better letting the sub play up to 80-90hz (vs my PSB main towers and center?) Seems like using line in, if I cross at 80, and the crossover is gradual, and the FV15HP falls off sharply, then might I be missing some of the impact frequencies in the 80-90 range? It is probably no big deal, I guess I just dont understand benefits of using the line in input over LFE input. Thanks again.
B0dyK0unt is offline  
post #53 of 53 Old 07-03-2014, 02:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 72
I am copying your post over the Rythmik thread so that Brian or Enrico can explain better. Chat to you there.

Last edited by tvuong; 07-03-2014 at 02:22 PM.
tvuong is offline  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off