Crossover/Sub placement help - Page 2 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 1Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
One other thing - acoustically, it's a bad idea to have your MLP right up against a wall. Is there any chance you could move all of the seating forward a foot or two? It would help a lot, especially in the bass region. It would also open up some more sub placement options behind the couch.
I don't want to move couch because it's a perfect distance from TV right now. (100 in screen). I have all front speakers propped up w/sorbathane and since photo I added another 1/4" piece under center so it is angled near perfect. I can look into moving center closer but I have it there so an arc can be made w/LR. Also not sure I'd like seeing wires on top of stand. It's a good idea though. Is an arc ( important to have w/LRC?
Weaverpsu is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 02:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 2,289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Audyssey will take care of the difference in distances between your left, right and center speakers. Give it a shot and see if it improves your dialogue...you can always go back.
Alan P is online now  
post #33 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Audyssey will take care of the difference in distances between your left, right and center speakers. Give it a shot and see if it improves your dialogue...you can always go back.
Ok moved center where only 3 inches are in front of it. Previously it was at least a foot. With angle, it shouldn't get reflections, I think. Weird, this time audyssey set XO differently. 110hz LR, 100hz C. I changed it to 90hz C so bass will not kick in and hopefully voices are less muted/clearer. It set it at 90hz last time I ran audyssey but not this time for some reason. I'll let u know when I test it. I'll try to boost center/dialog if needed. I was actually very happen with sound before so I may be switching back lol.
Weaverpsu is offline  
post #34 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 04:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 2,289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Audyssey set the crossover differently because all of that "table" in front of your center speaker was effecting the sound coming from it.

You should really try getting rid of the reflections off that stand completely by moving the speaker forward until it's hanging off the edge by a half inch or so. Not sure if the way you did it is gonna make much difference.
Alan P is online now  
post #35 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I'm about to throw in towel. Audyssey this time set Front at 90hz?, center 110hz?, surround 100hz. Wtf? Last time it set surrounds at 120hz and one time it set center at 90hz which I thought was a good idea. Very confusing. I need to get away from this thing. Center is right on front edge FYI.
Weaverpsu is offline  
post #36 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 06:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 2,289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Slight variations in mic placement can affect the results from measurement to measurment. Are you using a tripod for the mic??
Alan P is online now  
post #37 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Slight variations in mic placement can affect the results from measurement to measurment. Are you using a tripod for the mic??
No, sometimes I hold it where I think my ears would be and sometimes I stand it on folding tray on top of couch
Weaverpsu is offline  
post #38 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaverpsu View Post
No, sometimes I hold it where I think my ears would be and sometimes I stand it on folding tray on top of couch
Used tray twice, no wobble, perfect everything. Still got different results doing it back to back. 110hz front, 120hz center and 100hz surround. Is there a concensus on crossover with fronts and center? Is center generally higher than fronts or vice versa??
Weaverpsu is offline  
post #39 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
There is a scene in Star Trek in very beginning where the Captain asks for a report in a quiet voice. I can hear response w/dynamic volume on low. The only way I can match it is changing center by +6db making it a grand total of +5 and Fronts are at +1.5. Definitely not balanced... I miss a word or two every time during this scene no matter what I try otherwise.
Weaverpsu is offline  
post #40 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 09:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 2,289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaverpsu View Post
No, sometimes I hold it where I think my ears would be and sometimes I stand it on folding tray on top of couch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaverpsu View Post
Used tray twice, no wobble, perfect everything. Still got different results doing it back to back. 110hz front, 120hz center and 100hz surround. Is there a concensus on crossover with fronts and center? Is center generally higher than fronts or vice versa??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaverpsu View Post
There is a scene in Star Trek in very beginning where the Captain asks for a report in a quiet voice. I can hear response w/dynamic volume on low. The only way I can match it is changing center by +6db making it a grand total of +5 and Fronts are at +1.5. Definitely not balanced... I miss a word or two every time during this scene no matter what I try otherwise.
You hold it? You use a "tray"??

Seriously, you need to read this.
Alan P is online now  
post #41 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaverpsu View Post
There is a scene in Star Trek in very beginning where the Captain asks for a report in a quiet voice. I can hear response w/dynamic volume on low. The only way I can match it is changing center by +6db making it a grand total of +5 and Fronts are at +1.5. Definitely not balanced... I miss a word or two every time during this scene no matter what I try otherwise.
And one more thing that bothers me. I have sub at 50% and audyssey sets it at -12 (lowest setting) every time! Wtf is up with that? When I had it next to couch it was set higher. That makes zero sense to me.
Weaverpsu is offline  
post #42 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Well some of that seems excessive. The tray is stable and I even put sorbathane under it for vibration control. Don't see where a tripod is necessary. If I owned one, I'd use it. Did learn some things though. I kept lowering sub until it gave me a setting closer to mid than -12 every time. Also did test w/projector off and made sure to do at least 3 positions. You gotta remember, I have an entry level receiver, used speakers, and a good but not amazing sub. It's the best I can do right now. Having said that, it set crossover to 150 front and center which seems way off. Gonna run it yet again..
Weaverpsu is offline  
post #43 of 53 Old 07-02-2014, 10:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 2,289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaverpsu View Post
Well some of that seems excessive. The tray is stable and I even put sorbathane under it for vibration control. Don't see where a tripod is necessary. If I owned one, I'd use it. Did learn some things though. I kept lowering sub until it gave me a setting closer to mid than -12 every time. Also did test w/projector off and made sure to do at least 3 positions. You gotta remember, I have an entry level receiver, used speakers, and a good but not amazing sub. It's the best I can do right now. Having said that, it set crossover to 150 front and center which seems way off. Gonna run it yet again..
It may seem excessive, but it's all about making the best of what you got...and practicing for the future.

See how in a very short time you learned something essential (how to get your sub at the correct level)? It won't be long before you're tweaking with the best of them!
Alan P is online now  
post #44 of 53 Old 07-03-2014, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
It may seem excessive, but it's all about making the best of what you got...and practicing for the future.

See how in a very short time you learned something essential (how to get your sub at the correct level)? It won't be long before you're tweaking with the best of them!
Well I am at the point where I just wanna enjoy my system you know? Plus I feel like all the adjustments I've made, minus subwoofer, were not effective. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna put Star Trek back on and still not like dialog level. And then what?
Weaverpsu is offline  
post #45 of 53 Old 07-03-2014, 07:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 2,289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaverpsu View Post
And then what?
Time to start saving for new speakers....?

Seriously, though....if you feel that you get better performance out of your system going against the "norm", it's all good. You're the one who has to listen to it after all!
Alan P is online now  
post #46 of 53 Old 07-03-2014, 07:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 2,289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaverpsu View Post
Well some of that seems excessive. The tray is stable and I even put sorbathane under it for vibration control. Don't see where a tripod is necessary. If I owned one, I'd use it. Did learn some things though. I kept lowering sub until it gave me a setting closer to mid than -12 every time. Also did test w/projector off and made sure to do at least 3 positions. You gotta remember, I have an entry level receiver, used speakers, and a good but not amazing sub. It's the best I can do right now. Having said that, it set crossover to 150 front and center which seems way off. Gonna run it yet again..
Going back to this post - where are you putting this "tray" when you run Audyssey? If it's actually on the couch, you'll be picking up vibrations through the couch and into the "tray", throwing off your calibration. If it's sitting on the floor, then obviously the Audyssey mic is not in the correct position for calibration (where your head would be while listening). Also, by using a "tray" you are getting reflections off of said "tray" and into the mic, throwing off your calibration.

If you are considering getting a tripod for Audyssey, consider a mic boom instead (roughly the same cost, $20-$25). The mic boom allows you to place the mic exactly where your head would be without touching anything but the floor....the tripod you inevitably have to stick one leg on your couch which is not ideal.

Before you do start thinking about new speakers you should try to follow the Audyssey measurement guidelines to the letter so you are absolutely sure you're getting the most your speakers can offer...only then can you make an informed decision.
Alan P is online now  
post #47 of 53 Old 07-03-2014, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Going back to this post - where are you putting this "tray" when you run Audyssey? If it's actually on the couch, you'll be picking up vibrations through the couch and into the "tray", throwing off your calibration. If it's sitting on the floor, then obviously the Audyssey mic is not in the correct position for calibration (where your head would be while listening). Also, by using a "tray" you are getting reflections off of said "tray" and into the mic, throwing off your calibration.

If you are considering getting a tripod for Audyssey, consider a mic boom instead (roughly the same cost, $20-$25). The mic boom allows you to place the mic exactly where your head would be without touching anything but the floor....the tripod you inevitably have to stick one leg on your couch which is not ideal.

Before you do start thinking about new speakers you should try to follow the Audyssey measurement guidelines to the letter so you are absolutely sure you're getting the most your speakers can offer...only then can you make an informed decision.
Cushions off, tray standing on top so it's almost exactly where my ears would be. Put microphone on edge so speakers won't reflect off tray first. (My thinking anyways). Btw, speakers are here to stay. Just bought them..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	207.4 KB
ID:	146626  
Weaverpsu is offline  
post #48 of 53 Old 07-03-2014, 09:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 2,289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Well, while not ideal, I suppose it's better than holding it in your hand.
Alan P is online now  
post #49 of 53 Old 07-03-2014, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Well, while not ideal, I suppose it's better than holding it in your hand.
Going camping, I need to get away from it anyways lol. My wife told me that lately all I talk about is the home theater.. XO at 150hz seems high but who knows, maybe it will sound the best. Hsu rep actually mentioned setting it higher so maybe he was on to something. My center hasn't been too bassy but rather just too quiet. I honestly thought it sounded great when LRC was around 100-110 and I turned on dynamic volume. I do totally agree having the center where I had it was probably not a good idea. I learn something everyday it seems with this stuff.
Alan P likes this.
Weaverpsu is offline  
post #50 of 53 Old 07-07-2014, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaverpsu View Post
Going camping, I need to get away from it anyways lol. My wife told me that lately all I talk about is the home theater.. XO at 150hz seems high but who knows, maybe it will sound the best. Hsu rep actually mentioned setting it higher so maybe he was on to something. My center hasn't been too bassy but rather just too quiet. I honestly thought it sounded great when LRC was around 100-110 and I turned on dynamic volume. I do totally agree having the center where I had it was probably not a good idea. I learn something everyday it seems with this stuff.
So I watched a movie and dialog seemed better. I upped it just a bit and I'm hoping this case will be solved. I am wondering about music though. I would think if Super Zeros are good from 90hz on up, wouldn't I want crossover closer to 90 or 100hz? Or am I totally wrong? The XO is now set at 150hz I think for LR. Thoughts on music aspect of this equation?
Weaverpsu is offline  
post #51 of 53 Old 07-07-2014, 08:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 2,289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaverpsu View Post
So I watched a movie and dialog seemed better. I upped it just a bit and I'm hoping this case will be solved. I am wondering about music though. I would think if Super Zeros are good from 90hz on up, wouldn't I want crossover closer to 90 or 100hz? Or am I totally wrong? The XO is now set at 150hz I think for LR. Thoughts on music aspect of this equation?
Well, as I said before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You should never lower a crossover as set by Audyssey, you risk damaging your speakers if you do so.
But, since you're Audyssey calibration routine can't be trusted, who knows what your speakers are really capable of...according to this Stereophile review, the Superzeros are good to around 100hz (-3db point):

Alan P is online now  
post #52 of 53 Old 07-08-2014, 11:37 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Weaverpsu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Ok, thanks for all your help. Dialog seems fixed. Ran Audyssey again and same numbers came up. Consistency is a good thing. Honestly it may have been projector noise, fan noise, or other that was giving me new numbers seemingly every time. I learned a lot and will hopefully continue to learn even more. Putting center speaker on closest edge I think was key as well. Ciao!
Weaverpsu is offline  
post #53 of 53 Old 07-09-2014, 07:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 2,289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaverpsu View Post
Ok, thanks for all your help. Dialog seems fixed. Ran Audyssey again and same numbers came up. Consistency is a good thing. Honestly it may have been projector noise, fan noise, or other that was giving me new numbers seemingly every time. I learned a lot and will hopefully continue to learn even more. Putting center speaker on closest edge I think was key as well. Ciao!
More likely it was mic placement/support.

Glad you're now enjoying it more! If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask here or start a new thread.
Alan P is online now  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off