Sub to Pair with Topping TP20 and Pioneer BS22s? - AVS Forum
Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > Sub to Pair with Topping TP20 and Pioneer BS22s?
Josh1983 07:06 PM 06-25-2014
This is my first post, though I've searched this forum and several others, reading several dozen threads on the topic of budget subs and T-amps.

Basically, I have little experience with powered subs. My main systems have either been a receiver with towers or a receiver with an old Cambridge Soundworks satellite/passive sub combination.

But I just purchased a Topping TP20MK2 and some Pioneer BS22s for a small home office system. I'm very pleased with this setup, but I'd like to add a powered sub to round out the sound a bit.

So, I have two questions:

1.) The TP20 does not have a sub out. So I'd be running speaker wire to the hi-level inputs on whatever sub I get. For subs with hi ins and hi outs, it's clear I'd run one set of wire to the sub hi ins, then wire from the sub hi outs to the BS22s. However, for subs without hi outs, I'd have to run two sets of wires from the TP20 -- one set to the sub, one set to the BS22s. Will either/both of these wirings cause any issues? It seems like lots of people use powered subs with T-amps wired parallel. However, I've read a few posts with people mentioning issues with the grounding of older T-amps and the sub. (Grounding stuff goes over my head.)

2.) For a budget sub, I've been debating between the Pioneer SW-8MK2 that matches the BS22s, the Martin Logan Dynamo 300, the Dayton Sub 800, the Dayton Sub 1000, and the BIC V1020. My room is small (10x12), I'm not really a bass-head (the BS22s are, frankly, just barely too little bass for me by themselves), and I'm only going to be listening to music (no movies or games), particularly classic rock and soul, so the musicality of the sub is my prime concern. I'd appreciate any recommendations among these subs or others in the $100-$150 range (which I know isn't a large budget at all).

Thanks, in advance, for any and all advice.

cel4145's Avatar cel4145 12:07 AM 06-27-2014
I'd definitely try splitting the left/right signal coming from your computer and run it to both the Topping and the sub. Then use the computer volume to control the sound level. If you go this route, you would need a subwoofer with left and right RCA inputs.

A few members have commented that the Pioneer sub has decent SQ, just not much max output. For a computer desktop setup in a small room, I would imagine it would be fine, especially located nearfield (a few feet away).

I've never been impressed by what I have read about the Dynamo 300. The Pioneer seems better.

Dayton subs get a lot of love, but you don't hear much about the SUB-800.

Newegg has run a couple of specials on the Klipsch Synergy SUB-10 in the last couple of months for $150 shipped.
dsrussell's Avatar dsrussell 01:00 AM 06-27-2014
^^ Here's a review on the Dayton Sub-800: http://www.cnet.com/news/dayton-audi...800-subwoofer/
FMW's Avatar FMW 03:18 AM 06-27-2014
I think subs need to be 12" or larger to sound right. That's an opinion, certainly not a rule. So I will put in my recommendation for the BIC F12. I have one of these for my computer audio and, while it sounds like a low end subwoofer, it's a bunch better than the little ones. I run it with speaker level connections and think that is the best way to go if you don't have bass management.
cel4145's Avatar cel4145 07:13 AM 06-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
I think subs need to be 12" or larger to sound right. That's an opinion, certainly not a rule.
Using 12" drivers in sub design has advantages in producing more output and deeper extension, but they are not inherently better in SQ than smaller drivers. If a smaller driver sub has the necessary output for the intended listening levels and the necessary extension for the source material, it might even offer better SQ than a larger version depending on the transient response of the driver and design qualities.

BTW FMW, if you save up some money for a 10" SVS PB-1000, it will eat your BIC F12 for lunch on every metric--bass extension, max SPL, and overall SQ
Josh1983 11:01 AM 06-27-2014
Thanks for all the helpful replies.

Will a 12" sub be overkill in a room my size paired with the BS22s? Or it is always advisable to go with a larger sub?

If it was within my budget, I'd probably definitely go for the SVS, but among the Daytons, BICs, the Pioneer, and the Synergy mentioned, are there any thoughts on which is the most musical?

Since the sub was going to be under my desk, I was a little worried about something (like my foot) accidentally hitting the woofer if it was front-firing. So I was leaning toward down-firing subs like the BIC V1020 and the Pioneer. However, I'm open to going front-firing if there's a clear SQ benefit to a particular front-firing sub.

One specific question on the BIC's, in particular. Are the hi outs on the BIC's pass-through, or do they apply the crossover filter to the hi outs? I'd prefer a sub with pass-through hi outs, since I want the full signal going to the BS22s. (I know the Daytons' hi outs are all pass-through.)
cel4145's Avatar cel4145 11:21 AM 06-27-2014
Speaker level pass-throughs do not ever apply the crossover that I know of. Higher level subs will sometimes have a set single high pass filter on RCA line out pass throughs (Velodyne has some models where one can choose the pass through with a switch). But it's always a separate setting (or pre determined) from the low pass crossover dial in my experience. Then you have to match up the low pass crossover dial to the high pass filter setting.

You can dial down a 12" sub using the gain (volume) to integrate with your system. You could use an 18" subwoofer if you wanted

Front firing vs downfiring will not offer different SQ benefits. If your budget were a little higher, I would tell you to watch for either an Outlaw M8 or HSU STF-1 to go on sale (Outlaw has a b-stock page, too). These are downfiring 8" subs from major Internet direct subwoofer manufacturers that have excellent SQ.
basshead81's Avatar basshead81 12:21 PM 06-27-2014
Cel I doubt the PB1000 will have any more output then the F12 above 30hz. It will have deeper extension, lower thd, and more output below 30hz. Also being tuned lower it should blend much better with the main speakers and have much better overall SQ. So yes I agree, save up and buy a PB1000 at minimum.
cel4145's Avatar cel4145 12:49 PM 06-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Cel I doubt the PB1000 will have any more output then the F12 above 30hz. It will have deeper extension, lower thd, and more output below 30hz. Also being tuned lower it should blend much better with the main speakers and have much better overall SQ. So yes I agree, save up and buy a PB1000 at minimum.
Good point. Probably a good guess, too, that the F12 might have more output at 50hz and up because of its tuning.
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