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Old 06-26-2014, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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New subwoofer help - PSA vs. SVS

Okay, let's just jump in. My room is approx. 21' x 19' x 8' = 3,192 cu ft.

Not a dedicated HT room; also doubles as family room. In the basement (although basement is a walkout, so the room is really above ground); insulated subfloor over concrete, carpet on top. No other room treatments. Stairwell entry/exit at the back left (to my seating position); entry to adjoining room thru french doors at the front left (doors usually closed).

Running a 7.1 off a Yamaha receiver with front presence/height speakers.

Current sub is a Velodyne DLS-5000R (15") placed in the rear right corner of the room.

Because I am in Canada, most ID subs are difficult to source due to no shipping to Canada from the US (Epik for example), very high shipping costs + duties + taxes. Enter SVS subs as we have a Canadian distributor.

Originally thinking about a dual PB-2000 setup.

Then started reading about PSA's XV15SE - contacted them about cost on a dual setup of these. After further discussion, Tom V. actually suggested to me the option of dual XS15SE, noting that it would be cheaper and he felt I would actually get better extension in my room. Cool.

(Sidenote, I had come to the "understanding" that ported was better for HT over sealed, but Tom V. dispelled this notion to me - at least to his personal opinion, which should carry alot of weight, I think).

So, for comparison sake, also now considering dual SVS SB-2000 and even dual SVS PC12-NSD; both of these would run me approximately the same total price as the dual PSA XS15SE package, within about $100. Dual SVS PB-2000 would be the most expensive (a couple hundred more).

So, now I am utterly confused. SVS would obviously be the most convenient, especially if it ever needed warranty work. But, I have a feeling that the PSA's would be the best overall performance. But, perhaps the PSA setup would be over doing it (is that possible??), which then makes me wonder which of the SVS configurations would be the most satisfying?

Any advice?

Boston Acoustics Classic series L/C/R + front presence; Fluance XLBP Bipole surrounds; PSA XS15se
Yamaha RX-A3040; Emotiva XPA-3
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Old 06-26-2014, 11:41 AM
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The dual PB2000 would be a great choice imo for dual purpose home theater/music. The dual XS15 would work fine as well, with less output on movies but more output on music. This may be a moot point of the PB2000's give you all the output you need. I would avoid the standard SVS sealed subs for home theater, I don't think their output would be high enough in comparison to the PSA or the ported SVS.

My first choice if I were you would be dual PB2000 or dual XV15, second choice would be dual XS15.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:11 PM
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I would stick to ported subs for that size room. To make sealed subs work for the ULF would require more than 2 of the PSA or SVS subs.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks.

Here is what Tom had to say about the ported vs. sealed, when I asked him the question:

"home theater usually includes very deep bass, at very loud output levels. Music bass, on the other hand, is generally recorded in the mid/upper bass range and enjoyed at lower volume levels. If you could audition dual XS15se subs in your room versus a single XV15se, no doubt...you would prefer the XS15se 100% of the time. If you compared dual vs dual....I still bet you would prefer the XS15se package the majority of the time. It is all based on your listening environment and preferred volume levels.."


Also, I forgot another Canadian player that I can easily source, which would be Axiom - most likely either the EP400 or EP500 - although a dual setup of these would be significantly the most expensive of any option thus-far mentioned.

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Old 06-26-2014, 12:31 PM
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AC2011: I own a single XS30 PSA sub that does wonders in my 3,400 cu. ft. area (how hard do I want my walls, floor and seat to shake?), but all rooms are different. I also own a single SB13 in a similar size area that also has no problems filling the space and slamming walls and providing exactly what I was looking for. Would two be better in each room? Sure, but the cost, setup, and trying to find the right locations aren't worth it for me. If I ever become unsatisfied, I will address it then.

Since you were thinking about dual PB-2000, I'd say that would be all you need and then some, but we are all different. I also think two XS15se's would be even better and two XV15se's another step up. A few people here think 4 Triax's or 4 SubM's "might" be enough but keep wondering about 5, or 6 or … you get the idea.

Only you can determine what is enough and what is overkill. I usually suggest to try one very good sub and set that one up properly, before thinking about multiples. May save you time and money.
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
AC2011: I own a single XS30 PSA sub that does wonders in my 3,400 cu. ft. area (how hard do I want my walls, floor and seat to shake?), but all rooms are different. I also own a single SB13 in a similar size area that also has no problems filling the space and slamming walls and providing exactly what I was looking for. Would two be better in each room? Sure, but the cost, setup, and trying to find the right locations aren't worth it for me. If I ever become unsatisfied, I will address it then.

Since you were thinking about dual PB-2000, I'd say that would be all you need and then some, but we are all different. I also think two XS15se's would be even better and two XV15se's another step up. A few people here think 4 Triax's or 4 SubM's "might" be enough but keep wondering about 5, or 6 or … you get the idea.

Only you can determine what is enough and what is overkill. I usually suggest to try one very good sub and set that one up properly, before thinking about multiples. May save you time and money.

Completely get what you are saying.

I agree that dual XV15SE's would make me overjoyed - and would probably be way more than I would ever need. But, in the same breath, if I could find a mate to the Velodyne I have, I would probably be more than happy as well.

So, that's why - as everyone does - I'm trying to balance out cost with performance.

Dual PC-12NSDs would be the cheapest for me, but don't know about their performance (or the look of cylinders); next would be SB-2000s, XS15SEs, PB-2000s, then any dual setup of Axiom.

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Old 06-26-2014, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2011 View Post
Completely get what you are saying.

I agree that dual XV15SE's would make me overjoyed - and would probably be way more than I would ever need. But, in the same breath, if I could find a mate to the Velodyne I have, I would probably be more than happy as well.

So, that's why - as everyone does - I'm trying to balance out cost with performance.

Dual PC-12NSDs would be the cheapest for me, but don't know about their performance (or the look of cylinders); next would be SB-2000s, XS15SEs, PB-2000s, then any dual setup of Axiom.
Performance of the PC12NSD is similar to the previous model PB12, which means it has less output than the new PB2000, but still has good output, especially down low. It remains relatively flat in output. The PSA models will have a significant advantage in output, the XV at all frequencies and the XS from at least 30hz and up. You would need at least a PC12+ to get near the XV in overall output.

Your Velodyne has good output above 30-40hz to around 80hz. The XS15SE would actually be a pretty nice match in that area. IMO they would integrate pretty nice for most content.

I'm pretty happy with how my Def Tech blends with my PC12+ for most content (20-100hz) stuff. I only really notice the Def Tech falling off during heavy movie content around 20hz and lower, which isn't all that often in reality.

If your budget is tight, go for on XS15SE for now and then another later if you like it and find the Velodyne doesn't integrate like you want. You might even want to try the XV model. It would be similar to how my system is in regards to performance difference between the subs.

I have my PC12+ in the front right corner and the Def Tech more near field in the back left corner. You could try something similar.

And the PC models really pretty much disappear into corners, and are very easy to place. You can even lay them on their side behind a sofa or entertainment center etc...

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Old 06-26-2014, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2011 View Post
Thanks.

Here is what Tom had to say about the ported vs. sealed, when I asked him the question:

"home theater usually includes very deep bass, at very loud output levels. Music bass, on the other hand, is generally recorded in the mid/upper bass range and enjoyed at lower volume levels. If you could audition dual XS15se subs in your room versus a single XV15se, no doubt...you would prefer the XS15se 100% of the time. If you compared dual vs dual....I still bet you would prefer the XS15se package the majority of the time. It is all based on your listening environment and preferred volume levels.."


Also, I forgot another Canadian player that I can easily source, which would be Axiom - most likely either the EP400 or EP500 - although a dual setup of these would be significantly the most expensive of any option thus-far mentioned.
Hi AC2011, I sort of remember this conversation....over "chat" maybe? I'm probably getting you mixed up with another but do I remember you mentioning 10-15dB under reference would be your loudest listening levels? If so, my recommendation for the dual XS15se stands.

I think some under estimate the XS15se's just a bit because of their pricing. Look at the data-bass measurements and add 6dB for duals. That should work very well in just over 3000 cu-ft..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:58 PM
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AC2011: I was wondering why the Paradigm wasn't doing it for you. It is, after all, a 15-inch ported sub, correct? I think before you invest in another sub, you need to find out why the DLS-5000R isn't hacking it. Do a subwoofer crawl and find the best possible sonic location for your listening position(s), even though you may not really end up placing it there. If after testing this all out and you're still not satisfied, then you should look toward multiple subs.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:00 PM
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It seems as though you want a sub/subs that will give good output on movies. The SB2000 might work great for you, just be aware that it takes four of them to equal one PB2000 at 20 Hz. If you are ok with 1/4th the output in this region, pull the trigger. But there is a reason for suggesting certain things. The best all around output for movies and music will be:

1) dual PSA XV15se
2) dual PB2000
3) dual XS15, although they will have more output than the PB2000's probably above 30 Hz for music.
4) 4 SB2000's to equal one PB2000 in the low bass for movies.
5) Old NSD models.....they upgraded them for a reason imo.

The thing is, there are two main things a sub is designed to do well:

1) Provide clean output
2) Provide adequate frequency response

So if you want a sub for movies, pick the one that gives you the most output over the most important frequency range for the least money. Unless things like very small size or premium finish are more important than performance.

Choose the sub or dual sub setup that does 1 and 2 the best within your budget. Duals of option 1-3 will likely astonish you with their performance.
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Old 06-26-2014, 01:52 PM
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ac I had the the opportunity past weekend to listen to a PB2000 in my space, a friend recently purchased. I got and xv15se bout 3 weeks ago. We spent the weekend watching movies and countless cd's. I have to say the wholeheartedly the PB sounds great. The XV15 sounds even better. Its louder and has more punch. If I had to pick on the PB it would only be the DSP shutting it down to avoid damage, I don't think that's a bad thing, but it has limits. The XV15se doesn't or I haven't found them them yet to be honest when I get the 2nd one, Im sure I wont. They both sounded good with music.

I have to mention my original sub placement had to be changed, between the resonance with my 50 yr old home and the gain it was too much. I placed it closer to an opening and did help with very little db loss. What I did find interesting is the PB did much better in that spot, but the XV15 stilled trumped it next to a 6ft opening. Cant wait to get the 2nd one.

No matter which way you go youll be happy, but youd be even happier with an XV15se.

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Old 06-26-2014, 02:05 PM
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AC- the more sub enclosures you can get the easier it will be to get the smoothest response in your room.

Contact an AVS sales associate. They can get good discounts on SVS gear.
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Hi AC2011, I sort of remember this conversation....over "chat" maybe? I'm probably getting you mixed up with another but do I remember you mentioning 10-15dB under reference would be your loudest listening levels? If so, my recommendation for the dual XS15se stands.

I think some under estimate the XS15se's just a bit because of their pricing. Look at the data-bass measurements and add 6dB for duals. That should work very well in just over 3000 cu-ft..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

Thanks, Tom. Yes, we had an extended email exchange when I requested an international shipping quote. You were very helpful.

Boston Acoustics Classic series L/C/R + front presence; Fluance XLBP Bipole surrounds; PSA XS15se
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to all who responded.

To respond to a few items, without specifically quoting - my Velodyne is rated down to 23 or 26 (I forget), but I doubt it actually goes that low. It's big, and loud, but I'm also looking for more extension down below 20.

My budget is not really tight (although don't tell my wife) - I can afford any of the setups I've mentioned, if I so choose. But, I am a bargain-performance shopper, for lack of a better description - I've built my system through shrewd purchases. In retrospect, probably the Velodyne was not a well thought out purchase, but at the time (2.5 yr ago) it fit the bill at a great price. Now, I'm into more of a mode to "tighten up" performance, without breaking the bank. Any of the dual setups mentioned would be a large investment, relative to the overall cost of the total system, so I don't want to have 2nd thoughts and want an upgrade again in 6 months.

Also, I get what a couple people have mentioned about trying out 1, then adding a 2nd. But, as far as PSA goes, as I am in Canada, and there is extra cost associated with importing anything PSA, I kind of hate to order one, then wish I had ordered 2 and have to incur extra shipping, etc. when I could have saved a bit by just ordering the 2. On top of that, I don't think I am audio-savvy enough to figure out how to integrate 2 different brand subs together.

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Old 06-27-2014, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AC2011 View Post
Thanks, Tom. Yes, we had an extended email exchange when I requested an international shipping quote. You were very helpful.
Hi AC2011,


If I am correct on the 10dB under reference being your loudest volume levels the XS15se package will have plenty of headroom for you. With all speakers set to small, full reference can require up to 118dB(ish) from the sub(s). 10 under that = 108. If you look at the on room performance of the XS15se for Josh and add 6dB(for duals) you may very well end up with -10dB capabilities all the way down to 7-10hz. Glance at the sound quality metrics too while you are at his site... impulse, group delay, stored ringing.

Also, I believe ordering one at a time versus two will end up with just about the same total shipping costs to Canada. Within 10 bucks or so I'd guess. This assumes you would be ordering the second within one year of receiving the first so you get the $100 discount.

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Old 06-27-2014, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by AC2011 View Post
Thanks to all who responded.

To respond to a few items, without specifically quoting - my Velodyne is rated down to 23 or 26 (I forget), but I doubt it actually goes that low. It's big, and loud, but I'm also looking for more extension down below 20.

My budget is not really tight (although don't tell my wife) - I can afford any of the setups I've mentioned, if I so choose. But, I am a bargain-performance shopper, for lack of a better description - I've built my system through shrewd purchases. In retrospect, probably the Velodyne was not a well thought out purchase, but at the time (2.5 yr ago) it fit the bill at a great price. Now, I'm into more of a mode to "tighten up" performance, without breaking the bank. Any of the dual setups mentioned would be a large investment, relative to the overall cost of the total system, so I don't want to have 2nd thoughts and want an upgrade again in 6 months.

Also, I get what a couple people have mentioned about trying out 1, then adding a 2nd. But, as far as PSA goes, as I am in Canada, and there is extra cost associated with importing anything PSA, I kind of hate to order one, then wish I had ordered 2 and have to incur extra shipping, etc. when I could have saved a bit by just ordering the 2. On top of that, I don't think I am audio-savvy enough to figure out how to integrate 2 different brand subs together.

I auditioned the DLS500R at Future shop about years ago and opted to buy the PB 10nsd at the time. The velo is great for spl but really lacked content <30hz and for movies that was the key.

I understand your concerns ordering ID and from the US. You know that on a any AV forum you'll be told that 2>1 and 4>2 but in the end... I am the one buying the sub to fit my budget and if my budget only allows for a single sub....buy the one that fits all your requirements. You could always add another later. Based on my auditory memory you'll get a pretty decent upgrade with any of the sub being talked about in this thread and for my money I'd go with the XV15se.

Pm if you need any further assistance...but Tom was pretty straight up with me when he quoted me the total cost to my door.

Good luck...in whatever you decide...Bill

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Last edited by Billy p; 06-27-2014 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool

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Originally Posted by Billy p View Post
I auditioned the DLS500R at Future shop about 6yrs ago and opted to buy the PB 10nsd at the time. The velo is great for spl but really lacked content <30hz and for movies that was the key.

I understand your concerns ordering ID and from the US. You know that on a any AV forum you'll be told that 2>1 and 4>2 but in the end... I am the one buying the sub to fit my budget and if my budget only allows for a single sub....buy the one that fits all your requirements. You could always add another later. Based on my auditory memory you'll get a pretty decent upgrade with any of the sub being talked about in this thread and for my money I'd go with the XV15se.

Pm if you need any further assistance...but Tom was pretty straight up with me when he quoted me the total cost to my door.

Good luck...in whatever you decide...Bill

Thanks, Bill. Tom may very well have got me with his comment above ^^ that I could possibly get down to 7 - 10 Hz, with the XS15SE's

I wonder what I would get with the XV15SE's, then??...
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:55 AM
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I too would stick with ported. The XV15SE does have more overall output than the PB-2000, but I don't think it's necessary in your room so would go with dual PB-2000 and pocket the difference.
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:56 AM
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Thanks, Bill. Tom may very well have got me with his comment above ^^ that I could possibly get down to 7 - 10 Hz, with the XS15SE's

I wonder what I would get with the XV15SE's, then??...
Ported subs roll off very steeply once they reach their tuning frequency so you won't see much if anything at 10hz with the XV15SE.
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:48 AM
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Okay, let's just jump in. My room is approx. 21' x 19' x 8' = 3,192 cu ft.

Not a dedicated HT room; also doubles as family room. In the basement (although basement is a walkout, so the room is really above ground); insulated subfloor over concrete, carpet on top. No other room treatments. Stairwell entry/exit at the back left (to my seating position); entry to adjoining room thru french doors at the front left (doors usually closed).

Running a 7.1 off a Yamaha receiver with front presence/height speakers.

Current sub is a Velodyne DLS-5000R (15") placed in the rear right corner of the room.

Because I am in Canada, most ID subs are difficult to source due to no shipping to Canada from the US (Epik for example), very high shipping costs + duties + taxes. Enter SVS subs as we have a Canadian distributor.

Originally thinking about a dual PB-2000 setup.

Then started reading about PSA's XV15SE - contacted them about cost on a dual setup of these. After further discussion, Tom V. actually suggested to me the option of dual XS15SE, noting that it would be cheaper and he felt I would actually get better extension in my room. Cool.

(Sidenote, I had come to the "understanding" that ported was better for HT over sealed, but Tom V. dispelled this notion to me - at least to his personal opinion, which should carry alot of weight, I think).

So, for comparison sake, also now considering dual SVS SB-2000 and even dual SVS PC12-NSD; both of these would run me approximately the same total price as the dual PSA XS15SE package, within about $100. Dual SVS PB-2000 would be the most expensive (a couple hundred more).

So, now I am utterly confused. SVS would obviously be the most convenient, especially if it ever needed warranty work. But, I have a feeling that the PSA's would be the best overall performance. But, perhaps the PSA setup would be over doing it (is that possible??), which then makes me wonder which of the SVS configurations would be the most satisfying?

Any advice?
Can u help us to better understand - What're your listening preferences like? And are u looking more for deeper extension or better chest thump (mid bass)? And do you have locally available shops who can repair subs at a reasonable cost?
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:58 AM
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Thanks, Bill. Tom may very well have got me with his comment above ^^ that I could possibly get down to 7 - 10 Hz, with the XS15SE's

I wonder what I would get with the XV15SE's, then??...
If you look at the in room data from Josh he got extension down to 5hz or so with a single XS15se and his room is a bit larger than yours. Now, "extension down to" is only half of the equation. You also need to consider the output capabilities. If you get extension down to 10hz but the output is limited to 75dB, then you really are not going to hear/feel anything at 10hz. Josh measured around 100dB @ 10hz from one XS15se so you could expect 106-108 in your room(slightly smaller).

The XV15se will give you much more headroom in the 16-35hz range(about double) but they would extend down to the 16-18hz range in your room. If you wanted a "one and done" solution to the room, the XV15se would be the best choice. Solid extension into the teens and likely enough headroom for all of your listening requirements.

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Old 06-27-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by sevenz View Post
Can u help us to better understand - What're your listening preferences like? And are u looking more for deeper extension or better chest thump (mid bass)? And do you have locally available shops who can repair subs at a reasonable cost?

When it comes to ID subs possibly needing warranty work it works the same as if you are in the USA for Power Sound Audio. Really, the only component that will possibly need attention is the amplifier. If that ever needs to be replaced we send you a replacement amp with the return shipping label inside. Just pop your amp out, replace it with the new amp, and then put the old amp back in the same shipping box. Shipping paid both ways(within the 5 year warranty). The whole process takes maybe 10 minutes, no soldering or anything like that.

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Old 06-27-2014, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sevenz View Post
Can u help us to better understand - What're your listening preferences like? And are u looking more for deeper extension or better chest thump (mid bass)? And do you have locally available shops who can repair subs at a reasonable cost?

System is very little music use, and when it is, would be from my Sonos, linked into my system. I'll say 10% or less here.

General TV viewing is probably a large component for now and forseeable future - probably 60%.

The remainder - 30% - for movies; although the system was put together with this in mind. Mostly action stuff, but also lots of Disney/Pixar movies for the kids - surprisingly, some of those have some decent LFE. Like when I first put the system together, the combine scene from Cars made my wife go, "okay, that does sound much better than before''. Duh.

As for what I want...the Velodyne does give me some decent thump in the chest, but I also want to get that low extension that I know I'm missing right now.

As for servicing, Tom has addressed that above, but there is only a single AV store near me (next closest is over 2 hours away). They sell Paradigm; not sure whether they service anything other than that.

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Old 06-27-2014, 12:09 PM
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The DLS you have is probably rolling off sharply below 30Hz (when I played with one years ago)

It’s seem to me that you’ll probably want dual XV15….just because they will give you the ported low frequency oomph that will add back that wow factor you’ve been missing.

I’m sure the others will be a nice improvement over your DLS, but you definitely want a strong 20-40Hz performer which the ported subs will deliver. The dual PB2000 should be up there on your consideration list, I think you won’t go wrong with either. That would be the way I’d roll.

My pecking order would be XV15, PB2000, XS15.

My general rule of thumb is: decide what you need and then buy the next model up. There is no second guessing yourself when you abide by this simple life rule

Axiom stuff is not in the same league, not worth considering if you’re a “value” buyer looking for the optimal performance for your dollar.
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:47 PM
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I've never heard the XV15SE, but my wife and I just purchased dual PB-2000's for our theater we are building and couldn't be happier with the decision. The bass filled the basement (theater is in construction) with its presence instantly putting a smile on my face which was extremely hard to hide from my wife as she starred at me when I first powered them up during the test with Transformers. I felt the bass in my chest during parts of the movie like you get from the theater. After hearing these, I instantly knew SVS was ourcompany. We since purchased the SVS Ultra center speaker which blended with the bass better than we could have imagined. SVS Ultra bookshelf speakers are next on our list.

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Old 06-27-2014, 05:12 PM
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Look at the in room capabilities of the XV30se. Subtract 2.5db across the board and you have the XV15se capabilities. The XV30se and 15se have the same tuning point and dsp. The kicker is this is in room testing. Your room may provide better or worse results. I know Ricci room is pretty good size, north or 3000^3.





Edit,

Comparing graphs you can see the XS15se clearly puts out more down @ 10hz in Ricci's Room. However from 12.5hz on up the XV sub pulls away and has much less thd thru the entire bandwidth. So yes the XS15 will still get deeper extension in a 3000^3 room, but looking at the above charts I would go with a XV sub. Jmo
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Old 06-29-2014, 06:35 AM
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I'd listen to Tom's advice. I don't own any (and have not owned) any PSA subs, but people on the forum always seem very satisfied with what PSA recommends.

That being said, warpdrive's advice about deciding what you need and then going a notch up is really good if spending more is not a hardship because you'll always wonder what the next notch up would have gotten you--and it will keep the upgrade itch away for even longer. (lol)

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Old 07-01-2014, 07:10 PM
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i started off with a pb10nsd and loved it for many years. decided to sell that and try out an xv15....loved it, but got caught up in the duals talk around here and bought a second. holy smokes...amazing. less than a month later, PSA comes out with the se model....went back and forth because i wasn't unhappy with what i currently had, but at the end of the day i just couldn't resist. i opted to do just one of the xv upgrades so i could have one of each and run them in single mode by themselves back to back and see if i could tell a difference. very noticeable difference IMO, and truthfully, had war of the worlds sounded like it did with the SE when i got my original single XV model, i probably wouldn't have gotten a second....well, ok yes i would have but that's because im stupid like that. anyway, long story short, i would be willing to bet that you would be very impressed by the XV15se, and you may not want a second. side note, my friend has the pb2000, and while it's no slouch it isn't as good as the XV15se (both of us agreed on that point). one extra thing to point out, whether it's a tv, a sub, engine size in a muscle car, or wiener size....i have yet to hear ANYONE say "i wish i would have gone smaller."
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Old 07-01-2014, 07:18 PM
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i one extra thing to point out, whether it's a tv, a sub, engine size in a muscle car, or wiener size....i have yet to hear ANYONE say "i wish i would have gone smaller."
Lol. Tell that to the petite little porn star that just did Mandingo.
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Old 07-01-2014, 07:22 PM
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good point there...i guess i was speaking from a male point of view. i bet mandingo wasn't bothered! lol.
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