Looking for low cost, high spl sub(s) for music first, movies second. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 07-02-2014, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking for low cost, high spl sub(s) for music first, movies second.

I'm not interested in "low" bass (< 30hz). I listen to techno, rap, rock 90% of the time, movies/tv 10%. I have a set of the newer Pioneer Andrew jones towers and bookshelves (no center) and an older but powerful Denon receiver. They sound great but I want more punchy, thumping bass. Room is roughly 16x14 with several doorways that can't be closed. I think I need two subs for the high spl I'm looking for, and smooth, even bass coverage over the room. I'd love a pair of 10's just because the space it tight, but I doubt the 10's in the price range I'm looking are satisfactory. I imagine hi-end 10's would hit hard, but I can't afford them right now. I'm looking at subs in the $100-$200(max!!!!!) range. I've built several home and car subwoofers over the years but I'm NOT interested in diy right now. Doing repairs on a new-to-me home is taking up all my tool-time. Been reading a lot of reviews. Can't really trust amazon, etc. Lots of those ppl are audio newbies or came from tv speakers or htib's. Example- look at the glowing reviews of the pioneer sub and them read a review where it's actually measured and compared to decent subs. I want to buy both subs now, not 1 now and another later. Thanks for reading and look forward to some interesting suggestions

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post #2 of 19 Old 07-02-2014, 07:29 PM
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About your only options in that price range are Dayton's 12 or 15. By all accounts they're pretty good subs for the price.
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post #3 of 19 Old 07-02-2014, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
About your only options in that price range are Dayton's 12 or 15. By all accounts they're pretty good subs for the price.
I second this. I don't think we've seen reviews of the 1500 but Jim was pretty satisfied with the 1200 for the price
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post #4 of 19 Old 07-02-2014, 08:25 PM
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I don't know what you mean when you say space is tight, but if you can fit them take a look at pro audio subs. In your room even a single may be enough.
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post #5 of 19 Old 07-02-2014, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm seriously considering 2 sub-1000's or 1200's. 15 is way too big. I want 2 subs for max spl and smooth, even response throughout room. I also want the bass to keep up with the rest of the music through the pioneers.
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post #6 of 19 Old 07-03-2014, 02:25 AM
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Not bad for $97.50 shipped.
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...oofer--295-036

110db to 130db above 30hz with just two.

I use these for boosting 60-200hz in my system.
Something that doesn't get reflected in my ULF Score which stops at 20hz (... oh well ).




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Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post
high spl I'm looking for
Quote:
Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post
15 is way too big.
10inch subs and high spl should not be used in the same sentence. Should be illegal.
But you can keep telling yourself that, if you want. (it is your money to waste, me don't care) LOL
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post #7 of 19 Old 07-03-2014, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
I use these for boosting 60-200hz in my system.
Something that doesn't get reflected in my ULF Score which stops at 20hz (... oh well ).
Did you even read the OP's post in full?
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post #8 of 19 Old 07-03-2014, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Read? Why waste timing doing that? LOL.

NO DIY.
12" MAX.
2 SUBS for max spl and more even coverage.

Speaking of DIY, I've been playing with a 20 yr old, mint condition Velodyne F1200R-B. 100 watt, sealed 12" servo. Cost me about a grand, in 1994. Been sitting unused for about 10 yrs. Fired it up and was getting nasty pops and very hot temp on the plate amp! All the caps look ok. I think the servo is ok cuz people say when it goes bad, the cone goes to max excursion on powering on. I'm probably gonna fool around with replacing the amp with a PE 300 watt bash and bypassing the servo in the driver. If it still makes the nasty sounds, I guess the cone is bad. It currently makes a nasty, sharp "spitting" type noise when it hits hard. Not sure if clipping or bottoming.
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post #9 of 19 Old 07-03-2014, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post
Speaking of DIY, I've been playing with a 20 yr old, mint condition Velodyne F1200R-B. 100 watt, sealed 12" servo. Cost me about a grand, in 1994. Been sitting unused for about 10 yrs. Fired it up and was getting nasty pops and very hot temp on the plate amp! All the caps look ok. I think the servo is ok cuz people say when it goes bad, the cone goes to max excursion on powering on. I'm probably gonna fool around with replacing the amp with a PE 300 watt bash and bypassing the servo in the driver. If it still makes the nasty sounds, I guess the cone is bad. It currently makes a nasty, sharp "spitting" type noise when it hits hard. Not sure if clipping or bottoming.
I'm not sure you can call it mint condition if it's having those problems.
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post #10 of 19 Old 07-03-2014, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post
Speaking of DIY, I've been playing with a 20 yr old, mint condition Velodyne F1200R-B. 100 watt, sealed 12" servo. Cost me about a grand, in 1994. Been sitting unused for about 10 yrs. Fired it up and was getting nasty pops and very hot temp on the plate amp! All the caps look ok. I think the servo is ok cuz people say when it goes bad, the cone goes to max excursion on powering on. I'm probably gonna fool around with replacing the amp with a PE 300 watt bash and bypassing the servo in the driver. If it still makes the nasty sounds, I guess the cone is bad. It currently makes a nasty, sharp "spitting" type noise when it hits hard. Not sure if clipping or bottoming.
Do you really want to waste time and money on this? Having the servo is really the only reason to keep that *mint* sub.
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post #11 of 19 Old 07-03-2014, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Mint, as in looks new. It was rarely ever used. I'd say less than 100 hrs on it. I don't know what caused the initial pops after sitting idle for at least 10 yrs but after letting it play for a while, pulling the amp and reseating the connectors, the pops only occur on really hard/sharp bass notes now. I need to make a vid and let someone tell me if it's bottoming or clipping. The amp is tiny. I'm curious how it would perform with the BASH 300 amp. I haven't pulled the driver but I think it's motor is very substantial!!
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post #12 of 19 Old 07-03-2014, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Stuck ol v'dyne in the corner...set gain to 1/4 and denon receiver to 5 channel stereo. Played around with sub delay in denon menu to get phase a lil closer to pioneer towers. Sounding good!!!
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post #13 of 19 Old 07-04-2014, 03:40 PM
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What is your target SPL in db's?
What is the reason for <15inch and non-DIY?

Two subs add 6db to the SPL.

For $400 DIY, you could have 1000watts and any size woofer you want.
As I already said the 18's will do +110db above 30hz.
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post #14 of 19 Old 07-04-2014, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Not to be rude but my parameters have been set forth in my first post. No further explanation necessary.
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post #15 of 19 Old 07-04-2014, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post
Not to be rude but my parameters have been set forth in my first post. No further explanation necessary.
I would wait for your tool-time to cool down, otherwise you will be wasting up to $400 for a sub par solution that needs to be readdressed later with another $400 or $700 when it is found to not be the high-spl you are looking to achieve.
It sounds like you are trying to solve the impossible, high-spl for $100 out of a 10.

That's like saying you want a sports car as fast as a Lamborghini, but for $1000 new, and with a motor half the size. I don't think it can be done.

Will two 10's create bass? Yes
Will it be high-spl for $100? No
No further explanation necessary.
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post #16 of 19 Old 07-05-2014, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I do not have room for boxes bigger than 15-16" cubed, max. I would prefer much smaller, but I understand the laws of physics somewhat when it comes to bass production, thus big bass from small boxes = $$$. I'm wondering if four 10's (Dayton SUB-1000) would please me. 2 on either side of my TV stand, just inside the main pioneer towers along the front wall and another pair in either side of my couch (which faces the TV) as end tables. Unless I'm mistaken, that is one of the less than optimal, but still acceptable layouts from the Harmon whitepaper.
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post #17 of 19 Old 07-05-2014, 10:24 AM
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g.costanza: Your room size of approx 1,800 cu. ft. (if you have 8-foot ceiling height) places it just outside the small room size of up to 1,500 cu. ft. I'd suggest getting the largest size driver your size restrictions allow (I'm not sure how the Dayton SUB-1200 with a 12-inch driver fits into that scenario). Normally, I would advise to start with one sub and find the best sonic location, then go from there. Since you want to start with two (or four), I would start out with two first. More subwoofers won't give you deeper bass, but will afford you a little extra headroom (3 - 6 dB for each sub, depending upon location). It also helps smooth out uneven frequencies at the listening position.

The optimum location of one subwoofer is the easiest to find (via the sub crawl). With multiples, it isn't as easy and takes time and effort (and often a mic and REW software to graph out the room -- or something similar). Multiples can create their own set of problems, like cancellation, but with patience you can be rewarded.
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post #18 of 19 Old 07-05-2014, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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g.costanza: Your room size of approx 1,800 cu. ft. (if you have 8-foot ceiling height) places it just outside the small room size of up to 1,500 cu. ft. I'd suggest getting the largest size driver your size restrictions allow (I'm not sure how the Dayton SUB-1200 with a 12-inch driver fits into that scenario). Normally, I would advise to start with one sub and find the best sonic location, then go from there. Since you want to start with two (or four), I would start out with two first. More subwoofers won't give you deeper bass, but will afford you a little extra headroom (3 - 6 dB for each sub, depending upon location). It also helps smooth out uneven frequencies at the listening position.

The optimum location of one subwoofer is the easiest to find (via the sub crawl). With multiples, it isn't as easy and takes time and effort (and often a mic and REW software to graph out the room -- or something similar). Multiples can create their own set of problems, like cancellation, but with patience you can be rewarded.
No offense intended, but you haven't told me anything I don't already know. The purpose of this post is suggestions for subwoofer make/model that are close to my criteria... 2 (or 4 if very cheap) small-ish subwoofers with high spl for my space, for listening to techno, rap and movies (90/10%), at around $100-$200 each. Bass under 30hz not important.
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post #19 of 19 Old 07-06-2014, 08:40 AM
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Just go with 2 Dayton 12's or 4 10's and call it a day as that seems to be the only choices that meet your criteria. I have experience with the 10" Dayton and for $100 it is a decent performing sub. If you are unhappy with the results then you have no choice but to save up some more. I suspect you will be happy based on your willingness to give up sub 30hz bass however.
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