Dual PB12-Plus vs. Dual XV30Fse for Articulate Bass - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Dual PB12-Plus vs. Dual XV30Fse
Dual PB12-Plus 16 42.11%
Dual XV30Fse 16 42.11%
Something else (recommendation in comments below) 6 15.79%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-19-2014, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jstach500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Dual PB12-Plus vs. Dual XV30Fse for Articulate Bass

I'd appreciate any comments you have on deciding between dual SVS PB12-Plus subs, dual PSA XV30Fse subs, or some other option you might recommend. The additional output of the XV30Fse is apparent, but I want to be sure I am not giving up sound quality for quantity. I had an early SVS 16-46 that dug deep yet sounded very smooth. I suspect sub design has improved greatly over the years to the point that I'd be happy with either option above, but I want to be certain that going for the XV30Fse would not come at the cost of losing some of the smooth sound I loved from my prior SVS. I also want to ensure good sub-20 Hz extension. It seems like both options will provide this sufficiently based on the data-bass.com info (although it only reports the PB13 and not the PB12, which are fairly different animals).

My room is fairly small at 11 x 17 x 7.5 (approx. 1400 cu. ft.), but behind the screen wall it currently opens to an unfinished portion of my basement. The subs will be placed outside the room, firing from the unfinished part of the basement into the theater room through GOM acoustically transparent fabric. I plan to eventually build a wall behind the screen wall to fully enclose the theater, but until then, the subs will have open space behind them. I say this mainly to see if I should also consider some other dual-sub option at approximately the same price point that would work for my situation (around $2500-$3000 total). I'm concerned that a downward firing sub would disperse much of its energy into the unfinished part of the basement and not into the theater room.

Thanks for your thoughts on whether I should go with dual PB12-Pluses, dual XV30Fses, or something else.
jstach500 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-19-2014, 09:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 6,690
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 1814
Both subs are using quality components, sound quality should be great between both. To answer your question about downfiring, bass waves are omnidirectional so the placement of the driver does not matter.

Last edited by basshead81; 07-19-2014 at 09:30 AM. Reason: one suggestion was over budget
basshead81 is offline  
Old 07-19-2014, 10:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
oneeyeblind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 195
Check out the XVF30SE on data bass and compare it to the PB ultra 13

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=s...d=106&mset=118

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=55&mset=53

The Pb plus will likely be a bit behind the ultra...

How big of a room are you working with?

ShaunH

Last edited by oneeyeblind; 07-19-2014 at 10:29 AM.
oneeyeblind is offline  
Old 07-19-2014, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jstach500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeyeblind View Post
Check out the XVF30SE on data bass and compare it to the PB ultra 13

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=s...d=106&mset=118

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=55&mset=53

The Pb plus will likely be a bit behind the ultra...

How big of a room are you working with?
Thanks. My room is about 1400 cu. ft.
jstach500 is online now  
Old 07-19-2014, 10:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
oneeyeblind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstach500 View Post
Thanks. My room is about 1400 cu. ft.
Sorry I missed that in your first post.

ShaunH
oneeyeblind is offline  
Old 07-19-2014, 11:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rnatalli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,835
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 103
Either option will make you crap your pants in that room. You might take a look at Rythmik; something like dual D15SE subs or E15 subs.
rnatalli is offline  
Old 07-19-2014, 11:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3,512
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Liked: 480
An option would be to try both in your room. Maybe just to get an idea how they sound order one of each and compare them directly at the same time. I believe PSA has free return shipping for the summer on the Power X series.

Another sub to consider would be the Reaction Audio BP215X or their vented PV15X. The PV should be an output monster and it can be had as in a passive version so you could run any amp you want with it.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is offline  
Old 07-19-2014, 09:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
derrickdj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,695
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked: 159
I voted other since both sub can give you articulate bass. The key for good bass is setup and taming room interaction. My guess is they will sound very similar as most subs do if setup correctly.
derrickdj1 is offline  
Old 07-19-2014, 10:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,364
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Liked: 689
Why wouldn't you consider the Rythmik FV15HP? It bests them both for about the same price, especially for articulation.
shadyJ is online now  
Old 07-20-2014, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jstach500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
Why wouldn't you consider the Rythmik FV15HP? It bests them both for about the same price, especially for articulation.
Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. I had originally dismissed the Rythmiks because some had said they lacked in build quality, particularly compared to the SVS. It sounds like I shouldn't be so concerned about that given the endorsements here. I'll add it back to my list of things I am considering.
jstach500 is online now  
Old 07-20-2014, 10:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 6,690
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstach500 View Post
Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. I had originally dismissed the Rythmiks because some had said they lacked in build quality, particularly compared to the SVS. It sounds like I shouldn't be so concerned about that given the endorsements here. I'll add it back to my list of things I am considering.
Yes the FV15HP is a fine sub, actually one of my favorites, but I would not say it is more articulate then the other 2 subs. All 3 will serve you well, contact each company, get a feel for the perks that each company offers and go from there.
basshead81 is offline  
Old 07-20-2014, 11:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tvuong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstach500 View Post
I had originally dismissed the Rythmiks because some had said they lacked in build quality, particularly compared to the SVS.
Rythmik uses quality driver and amp. Matter of fact, it is the only company I know of that uses toroidal transformer in its amp.
tvuong is online now  
Old 07-20-2014, 01:00 PM
Member
 
Romans828's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Naboo
Posts: 157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 34
SVS and PSA both have 5 year warranties on the the electronics. Rythmic only has a 2 year warranty on electronics (unless it has recently changed). I'm going to be looking to buy dual high quality subs next year for a new build...so I've been going doing the same path. I'm leaning toward dual SVS PB13-ULTRA's due to positive reviews, company stability/support. I don't hear much about PSA. I had never really considered them until viewing this thread. I will have to investigate them further.
Romans828 is offline  
Old 07-20-2014, 01:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 6,690
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 1814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans828 View Post
SVS and PSA both have 5 year warranties on the the electronics. Rythmic only has a 2 year warranty on electronics (unless it has recently changed). I'm going to be looking to buy dual high quality subs next year for a new build...so I've been going doing the same path. I'm leaning toward dual SVS PB13-ULTRA's due to positive reviews, company stability/support. I don't hear much about PSA. I had never really considered them until viewing this thread. I will have to investigate them further.
The owner of PSA is the former co-founder of SVS. Tom Vodhanel is the "V" n SVS(Stimpson Vodhanel Sound).
Romans828 likes this.
basshead81 is offline  
Old 07-20-2014, 01:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 2,135
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 638 Post(s)
Liked: 606
Romans828: It would be nice if Rythmik increased its amplifier warranty. However, amplifiers, if they are going to go bad, will usually do so earlier instead of later. All companies will have a certain percentage of amplifiers that go bad. Rythmik subwoofers are extremely well thought of and is a top tier I.D. company. They make amazing products.

I own an SVS SB13-Ultra and can say it is a marvelous subwoofer, especially for music (which is why I purchased it). The customer service from SVS is top tier all the way, and dealing with Ed Mullen was a pleasure. Can't say enough good things about Ed and SVS.

Not surprisingly, I also own a PSA XS30 subwoofer, which I feel is a powerhouse for movies. The new versions of all their subs, the "se" versions, take them to a new level. Tom Vodhanel was the "V" in SV Sound, so no one knows SVS better than Tom. He designed many subwoofers for SVS before creating his own company and was one of the main reasons I chose PSA. The customer service from PSA is also top tier, and like Ed Mullen, Tom was a pleasure to deal with. When I stumbled and my knee hit the edge of the grille panel and broke the plastic seating dowels, Tom sent me a new grille, plus dowels and instructions to repair the old one (so I'd have a backup if needed). No charge. Now that is customer service!
cchunter and Romans828 like this.
dsrussell is online now  
Old 07-20-2014, 05:51 PM
Member
 
Romans828's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Naboo
Posts: 157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Romans828: It would be nice if Rythmik increased its amplifier warranty. However, amplifiers, if they are going to go bad, will usually do so earlier instead of later. All companies will have a certain percentage of amplifiers that go bad. Rythmik subwoofers are extremely well thought of and is a top tier I.D. company. They make amazing products.

I own an SVS SB13-Ultra and can say it is a marvelous subwoofer, especially for music (which is why I purchased it). The customer service from SVS is top tier all the way, and dealing with Ed Mullen was a pleasure. Can't say enough good things about Ed and SVS.

Not surprisingly, I also own a PSA XS30 subwoofer, which I feel is a powerhouse for movies. The new versions of all their subs, the "se" versions, take them to a new level. Tom Vodhanel was the "V" in SV Sound, so no one knows SVS better than Tom. He designed many subwoofers for SVS before creating his own company and was one of the main reasons I chose PSA. The customer service from PSA is also top tier, and like Ed Mullen, Tom was a pleasure to deal with. When I stumbled and my knee hit the edge of the grille panel and broke the plastic seating dowels, Tom sent me a new grille, plus dowels and instructions to repair the old one (so I'd have a backup if needed). No charge. Now that is customer service!
Cool...thanks for the information. The PSA Triax looks like a monster!
Romans828 is offline  
Old 07-20-2014, 07:27 PM
Member
 
DualMono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstach500 View Post
Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. I had originally dismissed the Rythmiks because some had said they lacked in build quality, particularly compared to the SVS. It sounds like I shouldn't be so concerned about that given the endorsements here. I'll add it back to my list of things I am considering.
That baseless rumor was probably started by fanboys of brand X subs.
Tdekany likes this.
DualMono is offline  
Old 07-21-2014, 06:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JT78681's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,500
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 284 Post(s)
Liked: 215
Solid options and recommendations here. I have to say though that I'm a little shocked that the title reads "Articulate Bass" and Rythmik is not even in the running
JT78681 is offline  
Old 07-21-2014, 12:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cchunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,489
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 581
For articulate detailed bass with a small footprint I would suggest the SVS SB13 Ultra. Incredible little sub that will do very well in 1400 cu ft. Good luck!

Denon 4520
Klipsch RF-7II's, RC-64II, RS-62II's
SVS SB13 Ultra
Sony BDP-S790, PS4
Panamax 5300PM
Samsung UN60F7100 3D LED
cchunter is online now  
Old 07-21-2014, 01:28 PM
Senior Member
 
jwtallguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Westminster , CA
Posts: 321
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 28
I have 2 pc12+s in a 2800 cf room that opens up to another 1800 cf through a door size opening and in 16 Hertz tune I get a very flat response to 20 hertz at 116 db plus and thats not the best spot for 10-22 hertz but gave me the +-4 db to 100 hertz I needed.

The pb12+ has about 3 db more output at 16 hertz over the pc version
jwtallguy is online now  
Old 07-25-2014, 09:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
retro124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwtallguy View Post
I have 2 pc12+s in a 2800 cf room that opens up to another 1800 cf through a door size opening and in 16 Hertz tune I get a very flat response to 20 hertz at 116 db plus and thats not the best spot for 10-22 hertz but gave me the +-4 db to 100 hertz I needed.

The pb12+ has about 3 db more output at 16 hertz over the pc version
I do also have dual PC12 -Pluses in 1680cf room with open kitchen. Set both in 16hz mode and those do amazing job. PC12-Plus and PB12-Plus have almost same output if any different you can't tell. 3db more output is between PB13-Ultra and PC13-Ultra( this is what people from SVS told me).
I never had a change to listen PSA subs but if I will count Company popularity, how easy is to return it if you want to step up or even down in 45 days( lot's of free playing time), customer service and 1 year full price trade up you can't and will not go wrong with SVS.

P.s. And their outlet section will safe you some extra $$$ like I did, brand new dual Pluses on end cost me $1900 witch I think is great price!!!!

Denon X4000
Klipsch RF-82II's , RC-62II , RS-52II's , RB-81II's
SVS 2x PC12-Pluses
Sony KDF-60XS955
Apple Mac mini, Sony PS3
retro124 is online now  
Old 08-20-2014, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jstach500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Thank you, everyone, for your suggestions. I decided to take some of the "other" suggestions and purchased two SVS PC12-Plus cylinders. I am working to integrate them into my system. At the moment I am getting some hum from my balanced 2x4 miniDSP, but I hope I can get that worked out. Anyway, I just wanted to close out this thread by updating you on my decision. I appreciate everyone's help.
jstach500 is online now  
Old 08-20-2014, 07:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3,512
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Liked: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstach500 View Post
Thank you, everyone, for your suggestions. I decided to take some of the "other" suggestions and purchased two SVS PC12-Plus cylinders. I am working to integrate them into my system. At the moment I am getting some hum from my balanced 2x4 miniDSP, but I hope I can get that worked out. Anyway, I just wanted to close out this thread by updating you on my decision. I appreciate everyone's help.
You can't close out the thread without letting us know how you like (or don't) them in your room. So once you get them setup come back and give us your impression.
retro124 likes this.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is offline  
Old 08-20-2014, 08:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
retro124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,345
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Liked: 291
Agree with Kini62 you need to let us know how do you like them.

Denon X4000
Klipsch RF-82II's , RC-62II , RS-52II's , RB-81II's
SVS 2x PC12-Pluses
Sony KDF-60XS955
Apple Mac mini, Sony PS3
retro124 is online now  
Old 08-21-2014, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jstach500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Once I get them integrated, I'll let you know how I like them. They do have plenty of power in my room. I ended up building the wall to close the room off from the unfinished part of my basement, so the room is now around 1800 cu. ft. As an aside, I was able to eliminate the hum in the miniDSP last night by grounding the chassis. I ran a wire from one of the screw mounts where the PCB attaches to the chassis to the screw on the outlet where I plugged in the miniDSP's power supply. It completely eliminated the hum and put me one step closer to getting these things integrated. I am going to see about a more elegant and permanent way to achieve the necessary grounding, but at least I know it works and I will be able to keep the miniDSP in the chain.
jstach500 is online now  
Old 10-11-2014, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jstach500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 37
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I spent much of the last month buying a new receiver, discovering it was broken in a couple of different ways, and then waiting an extended amount of time to get it fixed. Everything seems to be working now and I am very pleased with the way the SVS subs have integrated with my system. They have plenty of authority in my room (to the point where I set them to -19 dB in the SVS amps), yet they blend so well with my other speakers that I sometimes forget they are there. The sound just seems to emanate from the other speakers. It was a great solution. My thanks to everyone here for their help.
jstach500 is online now  
Old 10-11-2014, 01:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Luis5150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Valley of The Sun
Posts: 334
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Yes the FV15HP is a fine sub, actually one of my favorites, but I would not say it is more articulate then the other 2 subs. All 3 will serve you well, contact each company, get a feel for the perks that each company offers and go from there.
^^^^^ +1 both options in the poll would give you articulate bass. Its all about placement, placement, placement, taming peaks and avoiding null spots. Is not like Rythmic is magically immune to all those factors.

| Panasonic TC-P65S2 HD Plasma | Oppo BDP-93 | Paradigm Studio 100's v2 (mains) | Paradigm Studio CC-570 v3 (center) | Paradigm ADP-370 v3 (sides surr.) | Paradigm Studio 20's v2 (sides + back surr.) | SVS PB13-Ultra(x2), Hsu Research VTF3-HO | Marantz AV-7005 pre/pro | Emotiva XPA-5 (x2) |
Luis5150 is online now  
Old 10-11-2014, 09:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3,512
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Liked: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstach500 View Post
I spent much of the last month buying a new receiver, discovering it was broken in a couple of different ways, and then waiting an extended amount of time to get it fixed. Everything seems to be working now and I am very pleased with the way the SVS subs have integrated with my system. They have plenty of authority in my room (to the point where I set them to -19 dB in the SVS amps), yet they blend so well with my other speakers that I sometimes forget they are there. The sound just seems to emanate from the other speakers. It was a great solution. My thanks to everyone here for their help.
Glad to hear that you are satisfied with your SVS subs. I know I like mine, I just need another one. The SC8000 does a fair job a taking some of the load off but it's just not the same.

Thanks for following up.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is offline  
 
Gear in this thread - PB12-Plus by PriceGrabber.com
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off