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post #1 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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3 Subs. $1200 Recommendation

Hey guys,

I'm building my home theater piece by piece, and wanted to get some input on the subwoofers. I'm building a 7.2 setup in my upstairs loft, and a 5.1 setup in my downstairs living room. I'll use my loft strictly for watching movies, and downstairs will be mostly TV & video games. The upstairs loft is about 18'x30'x8'.

I'm allocating $1200 to buy the 3 subwoofers. Fortunately, I can get a discount price on the following two subs for about $400 each, MSRP around $600, but wanted to know if there are better suggestions?

Option 1:
Polk DSW Pro 660wi - http://www.polkaudio.com/products/dswpro660wi

Option 2:
Klipsch SW-112 - http://www.klipsch.com/sw-112-subwoofer/details

I was looking at SVS, and even called them earlier, but the comparable 12" PB-2000 is around $800/ea, well above the $1200 range for 3 of them.

Would you recommend either of those 2 above? Should I consider something else in the $400/ea range?

Thanks for any input,

-Kyle
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post #2 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 03:55 PM
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Well the svs subs are in a different league in HT use, but at that price point id look into 3 svs pb1000s theres a deal to be made as you can buy a open box for 449 I think and then get duals for 900 after you buy the first one, that gets you 3 subs for close to your 1200 and 5 year warranty that your other choices dont
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post #3 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response. My only aversion to the PB-1000 was the 10" driver, whereas the others are 12". I'm only recently becoming familiar with SVS, and mostly due to reading a lot of forum posts on here. What makes SVS in a different league from everyone else?
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post #4 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 04:20 PM
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The pb1000 is a much better sub even at 10" driver as its built for home theater and goes down to 18 hertz quite well especially as a 10" driver goes, I believe its at about 99 dbc at 20 hertz so with 3 you'll be closer to 108 dbc before any room gain is added in.

Where the Others are only good down to 26 hertz or close to that .
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post #5 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 04:21 PM
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The two subs you noted are too similar to give a preference to. And not hearing either of these subs, I don't have an opinion. All I know is your loft area is very large and requires a subwoofer with generous output. That usually cannot be had under $800 ea. Of course, I am pretty sure there are better subs for around the $400 mark than either the Polk or Klipsch. You might look at the following:

Cadence CSX-12: http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...k-ii-subwoofer

This has surprising output between 31 and 63 Hz and very good output at 25 Hz. It's not bad at 20 Hz either. For even less money one can purchase the following:

NXG NX-BAS-500: http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...-500-subwoofer
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...er-review.html

With the money you could save on two of the above subs (either NXG or Cadence), you could put that extra cash into perhaps one superior sub from Outlaw (LFM-1 Plus or the LFM-1 EX) or perhaps a Rythmik sub (LV12R) for the living room (you didn't mention its size).

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post #6 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 04:30 PM
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The PB-1000 will dig deeper, but the DSW660 will have more output above 30hz. I would probably go with 3 outlet PB-1000's for the 20hz extension alone. That is the difference you will see between ID and Brick and Mortar subs. ID(Internet Direct) usually will provide deeper bass extension, lower distortion, for less money. the reason being is the middle man is cut out of the equation. One thing you will also notice is the standard box brand subs are smaller then ID. Smaller subs are usually more attractive to the average enthusiast and sell better due to WAF. the problem is they are harder to tune deeper due to the inability to increase the port length enough. Some companies employ a passive radiator to increase bass extension but that drives the price up and now you are at the price levels of the DSW Micro pro series, which are gawd awful expensive for what they are. This is a prime example why ID subs are larger...Larger enclosures increase efficiency, allow deeper tuning, and require less power to get good output. It's a win win if you have the room for them. Like the old saying goes, there is no replacement for displacement. Imo Enclosure size is far more important then driver size alone.
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post #7 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 04:34 PM
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Buy one NGX and then 2 of these -

http://reaction-audio.myshopify.com/...ered-subwoofer

Or alternatively, you may want to buy just 2 $600 subs.
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post #8 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The PB-1000 will dig deeper, but the DSW660 will have more output above 30hz. I would probably go with 3 outlet PB-1000's for the 20hz extension alone. That is the difference you will see between ID and Brick and Mortar subs. ID(Internet Direct) usually will provide deeper bass extension, lower distortion, for less money. the reason being is the middle man is cut out of the equation. One thing you will also notice is the standard box brand subs are smaller then ID. Smaller subs are usually more attractive to the average enthusiast and sell better due to WAF. the problem is they are harder to tune deeper due to the inability to increase the port length enough. Some companies employ a passive radiator to increase bass extension but that drives the price up and now you are at the price levels of the DSW Micro pro series, which are gawd awful expensive for what they are. This is a prime example why ID subs are larger...Larger enclosures increase efficiency, allow deeper tuning, and require less power to get good output. It's a win win if you have the room for them. Like the old saying goes, there is no replacement for displacement. Imo Enclosure size is far more important then driver size alone.
Well put. I'm now definitely considering three PB-1000's, even with the 10" driver. Also looking into the other subs recommended.
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post #9 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
The two subs you noted are too similar to give a preference to. And not hearing either of these subs, I don't have an opinion. All I know is your loft area is very large and requires a subwoofer with generous output. That usually cannot be had under $800. Of course, I am pretty sure there are better subs for around the $400 than either the Polk or Klipsch. You might look at the following:

Cadence CSX-12: http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...k-ii-subwoofer

This has surprising output between 31 and 63 Hz and very good output at 25 Hz. It's not bad at 20 Hz either. For even less money one can purchase the following:

NXG NX-BAS-500: http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...-500-subwoofer
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...er-review.html

With the money you could save on two of the above subs (either NXG or Cadence), you could put that extra cash into perhaps one superior sub from Outlaw (LFM-1 Plus or the LFM-1 EX) or perhaps a Rythmik sub (LV12R) for the living room (you didn't mention its size).

the driver on the dsw660,is no slouch and is equipped with 400watts continuous power in a enclosure that is fairly large for a B&M offering. I doubt the NXG offers any more performance over it, but it is priced better. For that reason I would lean towards the NXG, but the DSW660 can be had in the 3-380.00 range if you shop around.


I would put very little stock into S&V numbers. they tested the PB-1000 supposedly blowing the PB12NSD out of the water in output at a astonishing 122db @ 63hz compared the NSD 118db @ 63hz. Another example is to look up the Cadence CSX-15 over at www.data-bass.com/systems. It shows 124.5db @63hz 1m peak compared to S&V CSX-12 numbers of 125.6db @ 63hz.
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post #10 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
the driver on the dsw660,is no slouch and is equipped with 400watts continuous power in a enclosure that is fairly large for a B&M offering. I doubt the NXG offers any more performance over it, but it is priced better. For that reason I would lean towards the NXG, but the DSW660 can be had in the 3-380.00 range if you shop around.


I would put very little stock into S&V numbers. they tested the PB-1000 supposedly blowing the PB12NSD out of the water in output at a astonishing 122db @ 63hz compared the NSD 118db @ 63hz. Another example is to look up the Cadence CSX-15 over at www.data-bass.com/systems. It shows 124.5db @63hz 1m peak compared to S&V CSX-12 numbers of 125.6db @ 63hz.
The polk only draws 200 watts so its not possible its 400 watts rms output unless its talking rms over 250 ms time frame sucking the caps dry
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post #11 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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The polk only draws 200 watts so its not possible its 400 watts rms output unless its talking rms over 250 ms time frame sucking the caps dry
Where do you see the Polk draws only 200 watts? The Polk site shows it at 400 RMS and 800 dynamic.
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Where do you see the Polk draws only 200 watts? The Polk site shows it at 400 RMS and 800 dynamic.
Back of the sub and the manual
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post #13 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Back of the sub and the manual
Ah, sneaky catch. I see that now too. I wonder why the discrepancy.
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post #14 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
the driver on the dsw660,is no slouch and is equipped with 400watts continuous power in a enclosure that is fairly large for a B&M offering. I doubt the NXG offers any more performance over it, but it is priced better. For that reason I would lean towards the NXG, but the DSW660 can be had in the 3-380.00 range if you shop around.


I would put very little stock into S&V numbers. they tested the PB-1000 supposedly blowing the PB12NSD out of the water in output at a astonishing 122db @ 63hz compared the NSD 118db @ 63hz. Another example is to look up the Cadence CSX-15 over at www.data-bass.com/systems. It shows 124.5db @63hz 1m peak compared to S&V CSX-12 numbers of 125.6db @ 63hz.
Hi Basshead: As I stated, I don't know that much about the Polk or the Klipsch, just going on the data. And if the O.P. can get it for $400 instead of the $444 not including shipping (the cheapest I've seen), it's certainly worth looking at. Otherwise, the O.P. will have less than $300 for the living room sub.

One shouldn't take any single source as empirical evidence, except perhaps Josh Ricci, but with the NXG at around $260 and the Cadence at $344, he could have enough money for a really good sub in the living room. I have a feeling that the loft, even though it seems it might be his primary listening area, would be a subwoofer nightmare. It's over 4,300 cu. ft. and, if it's a typical loft, will have a wide open area looking down to the floor below. I doubt anything much less than two XV15se's would be able to fill that space adequately.
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post #15 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 05:44 PM
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still the DSW driver looks to much more solid then the NXG.


NXG Left, DSW12 Right
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Two good $600 subs would be better than three so-so $400 subs. I would be looking at a pair of Hsu VTF2s or Rythmik LV12r subs. Better sound quality, deeper extension, better accuracy, and so on.
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post #17 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Hi Basshead: As I stated, I don't know that much about the Polk or the Klipsch, just going on the data. And if the O.P. can get it for $400 instead of the $444 not including shipping (the cheapest I've seen), it's certainly worth looking at. Otherwise, the O.P. will have less than $300 for the living room sub.

One shouldn't take any single source as empirical evidence, except perhaps Josh Ricci, but with the NXG at around $260 and the Cadence at $344, he could have enough money for a really good sub in the living room. I have a feeling that the loft, even though it seems it might be his primary listening area, would be a subwoofer nightmare. It's over 4,300 cu. ft. and, if it's a typical loft, will have a wide open area looking down to the floor below. I doubt anything much less than two XV15se's would be able to fill that space adequately.


Actually you can get the DSW660 from polkdirect.com for 379.00. Last year the had a friends and family sale which put the DSW660 under 300.00. That being said I am with you on the fact that I would rather see the OP put his money towards some higher quality subs. SVS, Outlaw, PSA, HSU, Rythmik....
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Hi Basshead: As I stated, I don't know that much about the Polk or the Klipsch, just going on the data. And if the O.P. can get it for $400 instead of the $444 not including shipping (the cheapest I've seen), it's certainly worth looking at. Otherwise, the O.P. will have less than $300 for the living room sub.

One shouldn't take any single source as empirical evidence, except perhaps Josh Ricci, but with the NXG at around $260 and the Cadence at $344, he could have enough money for a really good sub in the living room. I have a feeling that the loft, even though it seems it might be his primary listening area, would be a subwoofer nightmare. It's over 4,300 cu. ft. and, if it's a typical loft, will have a wide open area looking down to the floor below. I doubt anything much less than two XV15se's would be able to fill that space adequately.
I believe It would be fine if placed near his seating area and would get better response from being nearfield but that would depend on the room layout
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post #19 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by charmerci View Post
Buy one NGX and then 2 of these -

http://reaction-audio.myshopify.com/...ered-subwoofer

Or alternatively, you may want to buy just 2 $600 subs.
+1

There's no indication of the dimensions for the room that the 5.1 system will be going in, but if it isn't too large for the NXG this suggestion is right up there with the best of them.

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post #20 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 06:54 PM
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Outlaw LFM-1 EX x2 and be done with it.

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But then with no money left over from his $1200 budget, what would he use to purchase the third sub with?

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post #22 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 07:26 PM
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Good point... Haha!

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Two good $600 subs would be better than three so-so $400 subs. I would be looking at a pair of Hsu VTF2s or Rythmik LV12r subs. Better sound quality, deeper extension, better accuracy, and so on.
I'm not opposed to 2 $600 subs. I guess I should say I'm willing to spend $1200 on both rooms. But from everything I've read, the general consensus was that 2 lower subs are better than 1 better sub. Due to the size of the loft, and the statement above about it opening up to a stairway is correct, which makes it even more cubic footage, I'm worried that 1 sub is not enough. Hence why I'm doing 7.2 upstairs. As for my downstairs area, the square footage is actually bigger than my loft, but it's also not my main listening area.

So what say the general consensus? Spend $1200 on 3 subs, or 2 better subs?

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.
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post #24 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 08:02 PM
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^^ 2 better subs- LFM-1EX
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post #25 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 08:42 PM
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^^ 2 better subs- LFM-1EX
x2

Dual Outlaw LFM-1 EX's a subwoofer that go down to 16hz on sale for $600 shipped. That is a major deal right now that people are over looking.

The LFM-1 EX is meant to compete with the HSU VTF-3, a subwoofer in the $800 price range
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x2

Dual Outlaw LFM-1 EX's a subwoofer that go down to 16hz on sale for $600 shipped. That is a major deal right now that people are over looking.

The LFM-1 EX is meant to compete with the HSU VTF-3, a subwoofer in the $800 price range
+1 this can not be beat for the money.
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post #27 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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x2

Dual Outlaw LFM-1 EX's a subwoofer that go down to 16hz on sale for $600 shipped. That is a major deal right now that people are over looking.

The LFM-1 EX is meant to compete with the HSU VTF-3, a subwoofer in the $800 price range
Looking at them right now. At $600/ea, it's definitely in my price range. And will 1 of these be enough to cover the 4,300+ cubic feet of space? And better than 2 Polk DSW Pro 660wi? How about better than 2 SVS PB-1000s?
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post #28 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 10:18 PM
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See the post above yours....

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post #29 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kylbarnes View Post
Looking at them right now. At $600/ea, it's definitely in my price range. And will 1 of these be enough to cover the 4,300+ cubic feet of space? And better than 2 Polk DSW Pro 660wi? How about better than 2 SVS PB-1000s?
The Outlaws are about as good as you can do for the price without resorting to DIY. Whether one will be enough for a 4.3'k^3 space depends on certain factors, like placement and loudness preferences and so on. Yes, the LFM-1 EX will beat two Polk 660s handily and probably beat two PB1000s as well. They are a steal at the sale price, but that price never lasts long, and I am betting that sale is almost over, so don't wait to pull the trigger on them.
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post #30 of 55 Old 07-22-2014, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by kylbarnes View Post
Looking at them right now. At $600/ea, it's definitely in my price range. And will 1 of these be enough to cover the 4,300+ cubic feet of space? And better than 2 Polk DSW Pro 660wi? How about better than 2 SVS PB-1000s?
The Outlaws will be better all around in every metric compared to the other subs mentioned.
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