Compact sub with SVS-class output? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 02:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Compact sub with SVS-class output?

I know there are certain laws of physics that you just can't get around. No matter how much you spend,, or how many watts you attach, or how exotic the materials, a 6"x6"x6" sub is never going to move as much air as a pair of 18" monsters with a reasonable amount of matching power.

That said, with a semi-reasonable budget, say, $2k max (preferably more like $1k?), are there subs out there that are actually compact (say, in the neighborhood of 15x15x15"), and yet will still perform on par with something like an SVS PB2000? I'm talking accuracy, how deep it digs, and SPL levels. Bonus points for an attractive finish, but beggars can't be choosers.

I'm helping my father in law spec out a system for a fairly large space. I think a PB-2000, based on past experience, would adequately provide the performance he is looking for, but naturally, we're coming up against WAF issues. He had a better budget than the PB-2000 requires, but nothing larger would actually fit the space (literally won't fit). Again, though, WAF issues are making a large sub a tough sell. So can the issue be solved by throwing money at it, or is there literally nothing out there that can meet or beat the PB2000 in every metric, and yet remain compact?

(And before it is suggested, no, the SB2000 doesn't quite meet the requirement in terms of raw HT performance in this large room, even though music is on the agenda as well)
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post #2 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 02:54 AM
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I am thinking JL audio, but their pricey.

How about 2 or 3 smaller boxes with a couple in nearfield position

Last edited by qguy; 07-28-2014 at 02:57 AM.
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post #3 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 02:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post
I am thinking JL audio, but their pricey.

How about 2 or 3 smaller boxes
Yeah, I've been reading some reviews of JL (e-sub 110/112), but I'm not convinced the under-$2k units can actually outperform the $800 SVS. (Smaller, though, yes)

Only space for one sub in the room, so gotta make it count!
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post #4 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 04:06 AM
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The SVS SB13-Ultra is a 17.5-inch cube (grille curves out another 3 inches) and weighs 92 lbs. Price is $1599 which includes shipping and is an elegant looking sub in piano black. I have mine in a 3,500 cu. ft. room that's rather open. It fills it without problems. Like every SVS product, it's free shipping back to their facility if you don't like it (hard to believe you wouldn't) within the 45-day trial period.
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post #5 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 04:16 AM
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Get something custom made. Take this driver and have a cabinet maker make something nice for it. Thanks to the tremendous motor force it has, you do not need a large cabinet for it, it can even be a bit smaller than the SB2000. Hook it up to an amplifier like this. There is a $2k sub which will significantly outperform an SB2000 for the same size, but, of course, greater cost. Something else you can do is get a JL Audio 12W7. The recommended sealed size for the 12W7 is approximately a 15" cube. Give it a 700 to 1k watt amplifier. Now you have a sub that should be able to hang with the SB13 Ultra. Make a post in the DIY forum for more details about builds like these. Yes, you can have a sub that will substantially outperform the SB2000 for the same size within $2k, but it may require a bit more effort than clicking on adding to cart and proceed to checkout. Building a subwoofer doesn't have to be a huge project though, especially if you just have a cabinet maker deal with the enclosure. All you do after that is drop in the driver, connect it to the amp, and dial the sub in. Funk Audio can also custom make stuff for you, but I think there will be a significant lead time with any orders there. However, the sub will be high performance with a very high craftsmanship cabinet.
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post #6 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 06:09 AM
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+1 to the SVS SB13-Ultra.

Another option is the Rythmik F15HP / E15HP.
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post #7 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 08:06 AM
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If size is key, maybe consider Rythmik E15HP or HSU ULS15.

JL e-series and KK 808 is small too with superb quality bass, but note that the price point is different.
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post #8 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
+1 to the SVS SB13-Ultra.

Another option is the Rythmik F15HP / E15HP.
Agreed, and due to the size restriction in that order as well; SB13U then E15HP. The E112 should probably factor in as well. I've heard all 3 of them and there isn't a bad option in that group, just different strenghts.

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post #9 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post
I know there are certain laws of physics that you just can't get around. No matter how much you spend,, or how many watts you attach, or how exotic the materials, a 6"x6"x6" sub is never going to move as much air as a pair of 18" monsters with a reasonable amount of matching power.

That said, with a semi-reasonable budget, say, $2k max (preferably more like $1k?), are there subs out there that are actually compact (say, in the neighborhood of 15x15x15"), and yet will still perform on par with something like an SVS PB2000? I'm talking accuracy, how deep it digs, and SPL levels. Bonus points for an attractive finish, but beggars can't be choosers.

I'm helping my father in law spec out a system for a fairly large space. I think a PB-2000, based on past experience, would adequately provide the performance he is looking for, but naturally, we're coming up against WAF issues. He had a better budget than the PB-2000 requires, but nothing larger would actually fit the space (literally won't fit). Again, though, WAF issues are making a large sub a tough sell. So can the issue be solved by throwing money at it, or is there literally nothing out there that can meet or beat the PB2000 in every metric, and yet remain compact?

(And before it is suggested, no, the SB2000 doesn't quite meet the requirement in terms of raw HT performance in this large room, even though music is on the agenda as well)
Aperion Bravus 12 is worth a look.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
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post #10 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, all, keep 'em coming! I'll consider the SB13U, but it exceeds the size point I was looking for, to escape the "wrath of WAF".

The SB2000 nails the size point, but for HT I prefer ported designs... the SB does not quite reach the level of the PB, in the 2000 series. Going to the Ultra might take it over the top, but then the size jumps considerably...
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post #11 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 11:00 AM
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Unless you want to try and build something yourself I suspect that's about it for the options. You have diametrically opposed needs, which puts you in a bad spot I'm afraid; you'll have to choose between having a sub large enough to be usable or one small enough to disappear. The latter means visually as well as aurally though, so keep that in mind.

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post #12 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post
Thanks, all, keep 'em coming! I'll consider the SB13U, but it exceeds the size point I was looking for, to escape the "wrath of WAF".

The SB2000 nails the size point, but for HT I prefer ported designs... the SB does not quite reach the level of the PB, in the 2000 series. Going to the Ultra might take it over the top, but then the size jumps considerably...
By requiring a small compact subwoofer you have to expect to give up something. Compact subwoofer the more compact the bass

Rythmik is another company that makes some great sealed boxes
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html
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post #13 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 11:37 AM
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How about svs pc models, they really fit the bill if its just floor space you need to watch out for. After awhile they go "kinda" unnoticed untill needed :-)
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post #14 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Unless you want to try and build something yourself I suspect that's about it for the options. You have diametrically opposed needs, which puts you in a bad spot I'm afraid; you'll have to choose between having a sub large enough to be usable or one small enough to disappear. The latter means visually as well as aurally though, so keep that in mind.
Yeah, I know, I was just hoping I was wrong.

I'll check out the options presented thus far, and unless something surprises me, I'll see if there's any way I can convince them to just accept the PB2000, else be willing to pony up for the SB13 Ultra... but it the latter one is still too big, we're likely looking at significant compromises on the low end.
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post #15 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jwtallguy View Post
How about svs pc models, they really fit the bill if its just floor space you need to watch out for. After awhile they go "kinda" unnoticed untill needed :-)
No, the wife doesn't want to see it at all, of course.

Looking for something that will be small enough to hide under their end table. The PB2000 just fits, but it so big you're going to see a lot of it from the front. The SB2000 size would hide under there a lot better. The cylinders are way too massive for the vast majority of wives, in my experience. (and you can't hide them under end tables!)
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post #16 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post
No, the wife doesn't want to see it at all, of course.

Looking for something that will be small enough to hide under their end table. The PB2000 just fits, but it so big you're going to see a lot of it from the front. The SB2000 size would hide under there a lot better. The cylinders are way too massive for the vast majority of wives, in my experience. (and you can't hide them under end tables!)
Ya I totally understand that, I gave my wife the choice of boxes that are big or a tall design and well to my surprise I got dual pc12+s as the 13 would block the light switches lol and I knew that would get vetoed very quickly.

How about the http://www.martinlogan.com/dynamo/index.php#dynamo1000w

http://www.martinlogan.com/dynamo/index.php#dynamo1500x
With the feet removed and laid on the side, might just fit
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post #17 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 12:06 PM
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How about just replacing one of the tables in the room with one of these:
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/TT.html

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #18 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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How about just replacing one of the tables in the room with one of these:
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/TT.html
LOL I was about this close to suggesting something like that, actually.

As it happens, I just got an email that my mother in law decided she's ok with seeing the front of a PB2000 peek out under the end table, so we're good to go, and saved some dough.
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post #19 of 19 Old 07-28-2014, 06:43 PM
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I like the E15HP myself.
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