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-   -   two subs on sale, only one comes home (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1630873-two-subs-sale-only-one-comes-home.html)

richabi 08-05-2014 09:54 AM

two subs on sale, only one comes home
 
Hey guys.

I know there are a plethora of vs threads out there. This is more of a your opinion thread.

I can't decide btwn these two subs and would like to pull the trigger today.

I Have read for months & done losing sleep hah. Learned a lot though

The outlaw lfm-1 ex is on sale for 599.

The rythmik lv12r i found on audiogon a few hours away and new for $560.

I can't decide if servo is worth the 3hz frequency difference. The most helpful review i read states the servo wasnt noticable until a train scene and the listener bheard details hes never heard before w/ any of his plethora or subs. But thats the extent of difference claimed. The sub claims 19hz. Cant find a frequency/spl analysis. Anyone know of one?

The outlaw lfm-1 ex is larger so it claims 16hz. Great review for both subs. Outlaw at high volume suffers a bit which I'm sure most mid priced subs will. Anyone know how the rythmik handles high volume?

Mostly used for movies, games and tv. Maybe 35% music. My layout sucks. Tile flooring, 4 Windows, open to dining and kitchen. So I'm assuming corner placement will work best. Down firing outlaw might work better there? Could be wrong about placement tho.

I am really torn between the two and this is after careful consideration of HSU PSA SVS etc.


I really enjoy and appreciate all the info you guys provide On here.

Thank you.

enricoclaudio 08-05-2014 10:16 AM

I sent you a PM.

basshead81 08-05-2014 10:26 AM

Man that is a tough one. I think the LV12 might have a more controlled sound, but the EX should have more output cpability and looks good with the glass top/downfiring design. Would make for a nice end table. Tough choice tho as both are great subs in that price range.

JT78681 08-05-2014 10:42 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I've had both. The EX definitely has more output and extends a little deeper, but the LV12R has more finesse. I also really liked the plexiglass top on the Outlaw.

richabi 08-05-2014 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basshead81 (Post 26310569)
Man that is a tough one. I think the LV12 might have a more controlled sound, but the EX should have more output cpability and looks good with the glass top/downfiring design. Would make for a nice end table. Tough choice tho as both are great subs in that price range.

Haha you're telling me bass head.
I want the extra umph & like to experience the 16hz in films and classical music but i want servo clarity i guess we can call it. If drill another port in the lv12 will it go lower haha jp. Wish there was one with a larger cabinet

The end table idea is clever... I assume drinks can't be places on it? Lol

WhskyTangoFoxtrt 08-05-2014 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richabi (Post 26311033)
Haha you're telling me bass head.
I want the extra umph & like to experience the 16hz in films and classical music but i want servo clarity i guess we can call it. If drill another port in the lv12 will it go lower haha jp. Wish there was one with a larger cabinet

The end table idea is clever... I assume drinks can't be places on it? Lol

With tile flooring, 4 windows, and open space, clarity might be difficult. I would go for the deeper extension and output.

KidHorn 08-05-2014 11:39 AM

You probably won't notice much difference either way. There's not much content at 16 Hz and accuracy isn't really something you'll get at 20 Hz inside a family room. You'll hear and/or feel a series of thumps.

basshead81 08-05-2014 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richabi (Post 26311033)
Haha you're telling me bass head.
I want the extra umph & like to experience the 16hz in films and classical music but i want servo clarity i guess we can call it. If drill another port in the lv12 will it go lower haha jp. Wish there was one with a larger cabinet

The end table idea is clever... I assume drinks can't be places on it? Lol

I have 3 XV15se placed as end tables around my couches. no issues placing drinks on them clear up to reference levels. I think the EX would be fine as well. Might need to place a piece of grip mat on top.

Gmash 08-05-2014 05:33 PM

I wouldn't drive a few hours just to save $40 on the Rythmik. The bigger your room is, the more I'd lean toward the Outlaw.

richabi 08-05-2014 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmash (Post 26322593)
I wouldn't drive a few hours just to save $40 on the Rythmik. The bigger your room is, the more I'd lean toward the Outlaw.

Its 560 shipped. 510 if i pick it up. I'm from Austin so id go back to see family and friends, picking up the sub as an errand on the way back to Houston.

Its hard to say how big my room is. Its an open floorplan so the kitchen, dining and living are all the same room with the exception of the kitchen counter separating it from the dining. The upstairs is bigger due to the one car garage being below the master bedroom (which is too big). Thetotal sqft of the townhouse is 1580 in think? Maybe its closer to 1700? Not much difference id say. Not sure if that includes the garage. So lets just take a wild guess my downstairs is 16x45 despite the stairwell and kitchen counter separator. And the living space is 16x16? 9 foot ceilings i guess? That would make the downstairs 6480cu sqft and the living 2304cu sq ft. Does That sound alright? This layout makes me believe the sub should be in corner of the living space left of tv. Could work better on the right of the tv, the dining area and kitchen side. I'm pretty newb so id have to try all positions.


Many good points people! You guys are all so knowledgeable. I Thank you. I am renting this town home. So who's to say we'll be here next year. The next place might be carpeted and better acoustically. I kmow when we build a house, we wont have much carpet, but large rugs like we do now. Unless i land a few sweet deals or win the lotto, i dont forsee our budget affording a dedicated media room.

Which Would you find the smarter buy if you were in my shoes and living situation?

Gmash 08-05-2014 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richabi (Post 26323537)
Its 560 shipped. 510 if i pick it up. I'm from Austin so id go back to see family and friends, picking up the sub as an errand on the way back to Houston.

Many good points people! You guys are all so knowledgeable. I Thank you. I am renting this town home. So who's to say we'll be here next year. The next place might be carpeted and better acoustically. I kmow when we build a house, we wont have much carpet, but large rugs like we do now. Unless i land a few sweet deals or win the lotto, i dont forsee our budget affording a dedicated media room.

Which Would you find the smarter buy if you were in my shoes and living situation?

If go with the Rythmik since it is $90 cheaper and you probably can't play super loud in a townhouse. If you move to a bigger place you could always add a second LV12R.

richabi 08-05-2014 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmash (Post 26322593)
I wouldn't drive a few hours just to save $40 on the Rythmik. The bigger your room is, the more I'd lean toward the Outlaw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmash (Post 26323777)
If go with the Rythmik since it is $90 cheaper and you probably can't play super loud in a townhouse. If you move to a bigger place you could always add a second LV12R.

I edited my last post with some rough guesstimates haha. Unsure next time ill be in Austin. Might be this weekend. Might not be for 6 weeks. Rather have the sub delivered and arrive sooner. I can play it loud here. I'm Not worried about my neighbors.

JT78681 08-05-2014 08:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by richabi (Post 26323841)
I edited my last post with some rough guesstimates haha. Unsure next time ill be in Austin. Might be this weekend. Might not be for 6 weeks. Rather have the sub delivered and arrive sooner. I can play it loud here. I'm Not worried about my neighbors.

You say that now. I had a noise complaint with my single LV12R on day two of living in an apartment. Good luck! ;)

Gmash 08-05-2014 08:02 PM

Well that changes things. Open floor plan, the sub will try to fill all of that space, so you need output. The EX would probably do better in that situation.

richabi 08-05-2014 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT78681 (Post 26325873)
You say that now. I had a noise complaint with my single LV12R on day two of living in an apartment. Good luck! ;)

Well that sucks. Apt living can & will strip your low frequency freedom!



Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmash (Post 26325881)
Well that changes things. Open floor plan, the sub will try to fill all of that space, so you need output. The EX would probably do better in that situation.

Thank you for all your advice! I'm leaning hard to the outlaw now

richabi 08-06-2014 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT78681 (Post 26325873)
You say that now. I had a noise complaint with my single LV12R on day two of living in an apartment. Good luck! ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmash (Post 26325881)
Well that changes things. Open floor plan, the sub will try to fill all of that space, so you need output. The EX would probably do better in that situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by richabi (Post 26309545)
Hey guys.

I know there are a plethora of vs threads out there. This is more of a your opinion thread.

I can't decide btwn these two subs and would like to pull the trigger today.

I Have read for months & done losing sleep hah. Learned a lot though

The outlaw lfm-1 ex is on sale for 599.

The rythmik lv12r i found on audiogon a few hours away and new for $560.

I can't decide if servo is worth the 3hz frequency difference. The most helpful review i read states the servo wasnt noticable until a train scene and the listener bheard details hes never heard before w/ any of his plethora or subs. But thats the extent of difference claimed. The sub claims 19hz. Cant find a frequency/spl analysis. Anyone know of one?

The outlaw lfm-1 ex is larger so it claims 16hz. Great review for both subs. Outlaw at high volume suffers a bit which I'm sure most mid priced subs will. Anyone know how the rythmik handles high volume?

Mostly used for movies, games and tv. Maybe 35% music. My layout sucks. Tile flooring, 4 Windows, open to dining and kitchen. So I'm assuming corner placement will work best. Down firing outlaw might work better there? Could be wrong about placement tho.

I am really torn between the two and this is after careful consideration of HSU PSA SVS etc.


I really enjoy and appreciate all the info you guys provide On here.

Thank you.

I wanted to add sub will be used for tv/movies 50% fps games 35% and music 15%

Maybe rythnik will be better for all the bullet fire of battlefield 4?

niccolo 08-06-2014 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richabi (Post 26336689)
I wanted to add sub will be used for tv/movies 50% fps games 35% and music 15%

Maybe rythnik will be better for all the bullet fire of battlefield 4?

You don't care much about music (and you don't say what sort of music, I'm going to guess we're not talking subtle classical content here), you have a big space to pressurize, and you care about oomph for movies and video games. I'm a Rythmik fanboy, but this sounds like a pretty strong case for the Outlaw to me.

shadyJ 08-06-2014 01:05 PM

What's strange was, when I was closely comparing a Rythmik FV12 to the Outlaw LFM-1 EX, I could hear zero differences with music, no matter what I did. What surprised me was the difference came out in movie effect bass. Many movie effects have a much richer texture of bass than almost any music. Rumbling scenes like the pods rising scene in War of the Worlds is where the Rythmik differentiated itself. I concluded that most music is just too cleanly recorded for the differences to be significant. For example, here is a sound that the Rythmik had a layer of articulation which the Outlaw didn't. I that may be one of the best sounds to compare subwoofer sound quality with.

JT78681 08-06-2014 01:11 PM

1 Attachment(s)
When I had the EX it was musical to my ears. I've had both the FV12 and LV12R (essentially the same sub) both were tight and controlled and did not lack output. If it were me and I was down to these two choices for essentially the same price I would grab the Outlaw.

ransac 08-06-2014 03:32 PM

I don't see on Rythmik's web site that the warranty is transferable. I would check with them. If it's not, you may not have a warranty as you wouldn't be the original owner.


Since the new price is the same and shipping is included (even to Texas), then you have to decide if size, controls, aesthetics, warranty, company reputation, objective specs, and subjective reviews favor one over the other. Mostly, it will come down to a gut call.


Edit: If you purchase from Rythmik by 8/15, the total price is $569.

enricoclaudio 08-06-2014 04:09 PM

Rythmik Audio warranty is totally transferable!!

dominguez1 08-06-2014 04:59 PM

I own a pair of fv15hps and am a big rythmik fan. However, I've also owned a pair of EXs...

I'd go with the outlaw in your case. It's a great sub especially at its sale price.

richabi 08-06-2014 05:28 PM

wow, guys thank you for all the replies today! I hope this thread can help out others in the many years to come.

I think I need to be more specific :p
I do care about music...a lot. I thought about it some more and realized with a nice set up down stairs, i will probably be listening to music while I do chores now or just relaxing. I noticed I do keep the tv on for white noise so I can see myself putting on music instead. I listen to Classical, electronic, classic rock, country, adult alternative mostly. Not much hip hop/(c)rap.

I know my space is open concept. The kitchen has a bar and pillar (with closet) that separates it from the dinning room. and there is a wall due to the staircase that goes up stairs that is shared as the back wall of the dining room so that reduces the size of the region next to living space. I think I need to post some pictures for you guys. I recalculated the dimensions. it is more along the lines of 41x20x9 at its widest and longest. The dining would be only the width of 14 ft due to the staircase and the kitchen bar starts at 29 or 30 feet from living room far wall. The living space is in the corner or the back end of the "rectangular" layout downstairs. We have a large shaggy rug and very thick window curtains that will help keep sound from escaping through glass some. I have a hunch if I place whichever sub in the corner of the living room against the far walls furthest from dining and kitchen, the bass will sound good in the region of the living room. I am sitting 12 feet from the TV or so.

JT - I am confused. You said "When I had the EX it was musical to my ears. I've had both the FV12 and LV12R (essentially the same sub) both were tight and controlled and did not lack output. If it were me and I was down to these two choices for essentially the same price I would grab the Outlaw." If the rythmics were tight, controller and didn't lack output, why wouldn't they be a good suggestion for my setup? did you mean they did lack output?

Ransac - the subs will be purchased new from Rythmic direct in Austin, TX. It is my hometown so i was thinking of going to see friends then pick one up this weekend...but that isn't set in stone. It would be 560 shipped to me. 510 if I picked it up.

dsrussell 08-06-2014 06:50 PM

richabi: Fortunately, both ported and sealed will work well with music. Rythmik is known for a more controlled response, but I haven't auditioned them, so I'm basically repeating what I've heard from perhaps a hundred people, and they all can't be wrong ;). The problem I see is that the volume of your open rooms are in what is considered "extreme" territory for any sub or subs. So the sub with the most output will probably serve you better. Even then, I think a near-field placement might be more suitable. The only way to know is do the sub crawl, mark the best spots to place a sub, then try it out.

JT78681 08-06-2014 07:12 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by richabi (Post 26351089)

JT - I am confused. You said "When I had the EX it was musical to my ears. I've had both the FV12 and LV12R (essentially the same sub) both were tight and controlled and did not lack output. If it were me and I was down to these two choices for essentially the same price I would grab the Outlaw." If the rythmics were tight, controller and didn't lack output, why wouldn't they be a good suggestion for my setup? did you mean they did lack output

They did not lack output, but the Outlaw had noticeably more output. Your space is on the large side so the Outlaw might fair better.

richabi 08-07-2014 08:54 AM

Noted. 50watt extra on paper equates to 3db difference. I understand all class, driver, etc can affect this so I'm curious what 3db means in real life. Doesn't seem like a lot.

I initially favored the lower response of the outlaw however it seems space and output are more a concern. I'm Not sure if we will stay in this place next year. And if I were to go dual, I think rythmik would be preferred so that is a plus on their behalf.

Aren't hypex amps regarded as a tad better than bash?

richabi 08-07-2014 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT78681 (Post 26325873)
You say that now. I had a noise complaint with my single LV12R on day two of living in an apartment. Good luck! ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmash (Post 26325881)
Well that changes things. Open floor plan, the sub will try to fill all of that space, so you need output. The EX would probably do better in that situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsrussell (Post 26353465)
richabi: Fortunately, both ported and sealed will work well with music. Rythmik is known for a more controlled response, but I haven't auditioned them, so I'm basically repeating what I've heard from perhaps a hundred people, and they all can't be wrong ;). The problem I see is that the volume of your open rooms are in what is considered "extreme" territory for any sub or subs. So the sub with the most output will probably serve you better. Even then, I think a near-field placement might be more suitable. The only way to know is do the sub crawl, mark the best spots to place a sub, then try it out.


After All this headache and the sub crawl is accomplished, I'm doing a pub crawl!

basshead81 08-07-2014 09:00 AM

50watts does not equal +3db. You have to double displacement or power to get a 3db gain. 3db equates to 50% more output. The outlaw is bigger which makes the system more efficient. More effeciency means more output with the same amount of power.

richabi 08-07-2014 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basshead81 (Post 26365665)
50watts does not equal +3db. You have to double displacement or power to get a 3db gain. 3db equates to 50% more output. The outlaw is bigger which makes the system more efficient. More effeciency means more output with the same amount of power.

I must have read the article incorrectly. Thanks for correcting me.

I have Some something to do.

Gmash 08-07-2014 06:14 PM

Better not wait too long, the Outlaw sale ends tomorrow I think.


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